Lancaster Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Just FYI..... bombings in China.... 7+ killed. No guns involved.... just saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanGnome Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I suppose the point here is that any idiot with hands can mass murder with a gun but that was not the case with previous weapons. And given that significant difference, should we not treat them differently? You're still fixated on the symptom, not the cause. Ban guns if you want, if it makes you feel better. Unless you ALSO focus on the underlying cause that creates the circumstances in which guns are used in violent and maniacal ways, you're simply just patching the surface. You cannot treat cancer by patting someone on the back and telling them it's going to be okay. If you treat the underlying cause, you stop seeing the symptom. It's pretty fundamental thinking, and rather simplistic, but we live in an age where overthinking and over complication has become the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 At the risk of sounding pretentious and douchy.... This is the crux of it. Today's youth and young adults are experiencing an increasing level of hopelessness from pop-culture expectation, sensationalized media and unfettered access to extreme biased information. Add in the ability to post anything, anytime anonymously and all of sudden truth becomes whatever you read and agree with, regardless of accuracy. Once it became the norm to say the worst possible thing for shock value with no reasonable repercussions "we" (as in some people in our society) began to lose the ability to empathize. Access to guns in the USA is A problem, but it's no THE problem. THE problem is the desire to kill people you dislike and the psychosis to follow through. The guns, and access to them are compounding the problem. There needs to be a serious reigning in of what socially acceptable behavior is, and there can no longer be a blind eye in regards to allowing it. It is the responsibility of all us to make the world a better place. Don't let society go to shiite. No one is special....and everyone is special. I wouldn't say it's pretentious and douchey, it's truthful. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.DirtyDangles Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Here's an interesting tid bit..... Over 10,000 people were killed during drunk driving crashes in 2013. Every day in America 30 people die in drunk driving crashes. Every. Single. Day. Roughly about a person every 51 minutes. Guns are def a problem but no where near THE problem. This Hellen Keller society we live in is the problem. Zero concept of "consequences for your actions" WE have created this "within arms reach" society of literally everything. This has lead to the laziest and weakest humanity has ever been on every single scale. Societal change begins with education and safe environments for families and children to learn and grow a benevolent nature. this will never happen with the current capitalistic, imperialistic mindset of all nations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 You're still fixated on the symptom, not the cause. Ban guns if you want, if it makes you feel better. Unless you ALSO focus on the underlying cause that creates the circumstances in which guns are used in violent and maniacal ways, you're simply just patching the surface. You cannot treat cancer by patting someone on the back and telling them it's going to be okay. If you treat the underlying cause, you stop seeing the symptom. It's pretty fundamental thinking, and rather simplistic, but we live in an age where overthinking and over complication has become the norm. I totally agree we need to address the underlying issues. But that doesn't happen overnight. And when issues like mental health, healthcare, education and the myriad of others come up for funding/debate, it's always the same lack of funding/support because it's a long term, hard thing to accomplish. But regardless, guns are different. Pretending they are equivalent to sticks and stones is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Vanderhoek Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Instead of generalizing and saying " invest more in mental health " it's got to be mental health issues maybe someone could explain a resolution involving mental health......kids being pushed to do this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanGnome Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I totally agree we need to address the underlying issues. But that doesn't happen overnight. And when issues like mental health, healthcare, education and the myriad of others come up for funding/debate, it's always the same lack of funding/support because it's a long term, hard thing to accomplish. But regardless, guns are different. Pretending they are equivalent to sticks and stones is silly. Well, just so we're clear, I never actually compared guns to sticks and stones. Chronologically I compared them, but in the context of the times in which those particular "technologies" were superior, relatively speaking they are the same. They are something that exponentially extends our ability to cause physical harm, plain and simple. In 200 years, the debate will be comparing ray guns to our current bullet based guns. So when you look at the fore and aft of the scale relative to time, the weapon itself really doesn't matter. It's the intent behind the person who wields it. In so far as it (fixing society) being a long term hard thing to fix, well if you don't start at some point it will be forever out of reach. I'm saying that in the past 30 years, there has been plenty of long term opportunity to START the process, but it never was, not really. We need to start now, so that in 30 years from now, we're not so fooked that it's beyond repair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Don't you know? It's guns that forced them to murder!!! From some of the discussions going on, it sounds like guns are probably the root cause for mental illness, violent tendencies, and other degenerative social behaviours. Guns scare the crap out of me - being scared of an inanimate object sounds like some kind of mental disorder does it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancaster Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Some reports saying that the shooter (now deceased) posted his intentions on 4chan beforehand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Yah, Australia has less gun deaths but has relatively the same number of homicides. Why does it matter HOW people are killing each other? Worst day I've heard with a knife was 7 people at a school. Normally a knife only takes out 1-2 people. It's hard to stop murder. But you can lower the death count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Here's an interesting tid bit..... Over 10,000 people were killed during drunk driving crashes in 2013. Every day in America 30 people die in drunk driving crashes. Every. Single. Day. Roughly about a person every 51 minutes. Guns are def a problem but no where near THE problem. This Hellen Keller society we live in is the problem. Zero concept of "consequences for your actions" WE have created this "within arms reach" society of literally everything. This has lead to the laziest and weakest humanity has ever been on every single scale. Societal change begins with education and safe environments for families and children to learn and grow a benevolent nature. this will never happen with the current capitalistic, imperialistic mindset of all nations. Interesting you say that - was just talking about the so called Generation Z and how they want everything to come to them, how lazy they are, what's in it for me attitude and kids in school taking anti anxiety pills because they feel "pressured". Pressured? The problem it that generation's parents were told that it's okay to let you child make all the choices. So now you have a generation that doesn't understand the consequences of their choices and doesn't know what to do. Too many parents coddled them. Now they are all messed up. Because my wife and I are "older" parents, our grade 12 son is being pulled by how his friends are and how we have brought him up. My wife is a teacher - this year she's teaching a grade 1/2 split and can't believe how many kids can't tie their own shoes nor do up the zipper on their coats - why? because the parents do it for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanGnome Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Instead of generalizing and saying " invest more in mental health " it's got to be mental health issues maybe someone could explain a resolution involving mental health......kids being pushed to do this ? Investing in mental health is really just a surface thing to try and treat what's happening now. What I'm referring to is so fundamentally changing our society that mental illness becomes a relic of the past. And I don't really like using the term mental health really, as there's mental health, and "mental health". Mental health these days really is miscast as general well being, the rise in depression and suicide, for example in a lot of cases is a direct result of the despondency felt by an individual. Now what triggers that despondency is so wide ranging, so I will not be so bold as to generalize that, however having dealt with issues of despondency, depression and suicidal thoughts previously in my life, I can say that the environments in which we function contain a lot of triggers. The way we're going as a society is not conducive to personal happiness or generalized feelings of success unless you happen to get really friggin' lucky. You can work hard and play the game and make all the money in the world, but unless you as a person are fulfilled (and how that's defined is entirely based on the individual), it means jack. I think the main problem is, the "rules" are set such that there's a so called "gold standard" of success and what's supposed to make you happy, but only a finite number of real ways to truly achieve that on a 1:1 scale of comparison, that people can't help but to feel worse about themselves than they rightly should. I consider myself incredibly lucky, and if I had better means to do what I think needs to be done in this current climate I would do so in a heart beat. The problem is, and just like everyone else, at a certain point priority needs to shift into focus, and that number one priority tends to be oneself, or ones family. Fortunately for me it's the latter. Those at the top, whether they got there by luck, inheritance or good old fashioned hard work, really should do more to help balance the scales. Otherwise there's just going to be a bunch of rich people huddled in condos like there were people huddled in caves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Weasel Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I blame the blood moon. wasnt there some large shooting in alberta after a blood moon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deets Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Worst day I've heard with a knife was 7 people at a school. Normally a knife only takes out 1-2 people. It's hard to stop murder. But you can lower the death count. I see. So the threshold is 7 people. Once you can kill more then 7 people we've got a problem on our hands. Why do t they just make murder illegal and solve the problem that way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMexico Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 The day we are no longer 'shocked' when something like this happens is the day we've finally lost all humanity. I don't believe that all people 'feign' their surprise or shock when such a thing happens. And the answer is yes, there are still many people in society who DO care. nvm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweathog Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I'm kind of on the fence when it comes to the use of firearms, as I can see the arguments for both sides. What I am sure of however, is that people should be able to use guns to protect their homes, and that nobody should be allowed to carry firearms in public. (Except of course,police officers and if you are heavily vetted by the government) Make it a felony with a life sentence if you are caught with a firearm in public. Drive home the point that this would not be tolerated. Exceptions can be made if you are travelling to and from the firing range, or the gun store. Keep the status quo when it comes to Americans defending their homes. In this case the guns are used in a defensive posture against home invaders and other kinds of scum. So if a criminal loses his life being a danger to innocent people, there's no point shedding any tears for someone like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 This is it. When those kids got killed in that mass shooting and nothing changed, that was it. If a mass killing in an elementary school isn't going to change laws or 'shock' society into action, nothing will. Like I said, this is horrible for the families directly involved but big picture wise, ho hum. Agreed. When Sandy Hook doesn't affect any change, this one has zero chance. Of course, Bocivus should be along shortly to tell us how this is yet another hoax, just like Sandy Hook and all the others. Tell that to the families of victims of mass knife stabbings, vehicular mass homicides, etc. People are too focused on "how" such tragedies occurs, rather than "why". We all know the "how", which are guns (at least in this case), but does anyone know the reason for it? Of course, society doesn't really know or care.... since it's much easier to put a band-aid solution to the issue (banning firearms) than to address the more important underlying issues (mental health, workplace bullying, societal stress, etc). What a ridiculous comparison. Can you not see how a mentally unstable individual would be capable of far more carnage using a firearm than he would a knife or a car? BTW: The "banning guns" routine is a strawman. Most reasonable people understand that an outright ban is impossible. What we're advocating is tighter regulation and a nationwide strategy which would close some of the current loopholes. Of course such suggestions inevitably bring up the hackneyed, "They're takin' away all our rights!" mantra It comes down to the fact that an individual has rights. You and your ilk think it's their right to restrict and regulate everyone they disagree with. I would rather live in a free society where I have a 0.001% chance of getting gunned down on the street then live in a society where i have a 0.0000001% but have no rights. Freedom isn't free. It's the same reason we don't ban alcohol because of drunk drivers. If we actually cared about the PEOPLE that are being killed we would start worrying more about mental health issues instead of the inanimate objects these people use. I doubt anyone would feel better if these killings were carried out with fertilizer bombs instead of firearms. Case in point... BTW: We don't ban alcohol, but there are restrictions on it's sale. Finally, go ahead and try to buy enough fertilizer to make a bomb out of it. See what happens... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeefcakeBo Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Worst day I've heard with a knife was 7 people at a school. Normally a knife only takes out 1-2 people. It's hard to stop murder. But you can lower the death count. The same day as the Sandy Hook shooting there was a school attack in China where they injured 23 people with a knife. Since it's hard to get a gun in China you will find all kinds of similar stories of school attacks with knives and box cutters ect. People will use what's available to them regardless of what's legal. Maybe we should ban pressure cookers too. You can cause way more casualties with a pressure cooker than a gun in a crowded area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Weasel Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 The same day as the Sandy Hook shooting there was a school attack in China where they injured 23 people with a knife. Since it's hard to get a gun in China you will find all kinds of similar stories of school attacks with knives and box cutters ect. People will use what's available to them regardless of what's legal. Maybe we should ban pressure cookers too. You can cause way more casualties with a pressure cooker than a gun in a crowded area. IIRC, that attack was on tiny little kids though. They wouldnt be able to defend themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLASSJAW Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 At the risk of sounding pretentious and douchy.... This is the crux of it. Today's youth and young adults are experiencing an increasing level of hopelessness from pop-culture expectation, sensationalized media and unfettered access to extreme biased information. Add in the ability to post anything, anytime anonymously and all of sudden truth becomes whatever you read and agree with, regardless of accuracy. Once it became the norm to say the worst possible thing for shock value with no reasonable repercussions "we" (as in some people in our society) began to lose the ability to empathize. Access to guns in the USA is A problem, but it's no THE problem. THE problem is the desire to kill people you dislike and the psychosis to follow through. The guns, and access to them are compounding the problem. There needs to be a serious reigning in of what socially acceptable behavior is, and there can no longer be a blind eye in regards to allowing it. It is the responsibility of all us to make the world a better place. Don't let society go to shiite. No one is special....and everyone is special. Why trivialize your opinion by introducing it with that sentence? You are entitled to your opinion, regardless of whether or not someone else finds it pretentious or not I have very little education or familiarity with this stuff, but I am very curious about what we do consider to be "mental health" problems vs. "basic" alienation leading to a dehumanization of our emotions. Part of me leans towards questioning whether or not it's always a "mental health" issue or if it's just a loser kid frustrated over being a loser. Frankly, it just seems TOO EASY to start saying everything is "mental health" or not. Of course the immediate reaction is "it takes a mentally unstable person to kill others" -- but does it? If you have no friends growing up, you have no community, you don't experience loving or being loved, etc. it is very, very easy to get caught up in negative emotions, to be resentful, etc. Websites like 4chan, which seem to thrive on this negativity and make light of it, certainly don't help. Of course I'm not saying everyone on 4chan is depressed, or a murderer in the making. I guess I just don't really get why people seem satisfied saying "mental health!" when that term seems so incredibly broad. Is isolation a mental health issue? Is loneliness a mental health issue? Or are we talking about people with serious disorders? How can anyone know if someone's loneliness is going to lead to violence unless that person has a history of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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