The Curious Case of Alexander Edler

[alfstonker]

Edler needs a rest. 

I am an admirer of Edler and I think he gets a lot of unfair criticism on here but last night there were clear signs of mental fatigue - poor hand eye co-ordination, failure to control even the easiest of passes and signs of concentration lapses and playing on auto pilot.

All these things are signs of mental if not physical fatigue and it is also showing in the play of Biega, Tanev and Hutton to a lesser extent. It's time to start rotating these guys and give them a rest now and then.

 

[alfstonker]

48 minutes ago, Twilight Sparkle said:

in the days where vigs had good coaching staff around him, we have an AHL coach in WD, who will never be a true NHL caliber couch, and doug lidster as an assistant, with gully. edler is not a horrible defenseman. as everyone forgets he was one of our top defensemen at one point. coaching staff does make a difference in players' overall play. after vigs left, he took his defensive style with him and this team started to show its true colours

 

as for being a "horrible first pairing" he's all this team has, as an nhl ready first pairing. live with it

What rubbish. Will Tortorella ever be a true NHL caliber coach, you remember him the guy with SC ring? I had no time for Torts but that was to do with his rants but I seem to remember Edler was a plus/ minus -39 under Torts.

Edler is suffering from fatigue, plain and simple. In a physically lightweight D he is the only one who supplies size and is called upon to play massive minutes night after night in a team struggling to rebuild on the fly. Have you any idea what that must be like?

At least Henrik has Danny but Edler has a pairing with a D who would rather take a hit than hand one out and is 185 lbs. Face it, Edler may not be a No.1 D but Tanev is even further away through no fault of his own. Hopefully if Tryamkin and Pedan move up next season this team can give Edler more durable minutes instead of flogging him to death each night - and the guy never complains to his credit.

[Twilight Sparkle]

25 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

What rubbish. Will Tortorella ever be a true NHL caliber coach, you remember him the guy with SC ring? I had no time for Torts but that was to do with his rants but I seem to remember Edler was a plus/ minus -39 under Torts.

Edler is suffering from fatigue, plain and simple. In a physically lightweight D he is the only one who supplies size and is called upon to play massive minutes night after night in a team struggling to rebuild on the fly. Have you any idea what that must be like?

At least Henrik has Danny but Edler has a pairing with a D who would rather take a hit than hand one out and is 185 lbs. Face it, Edler may not be a No.1 D but Tanev is even further away through no fault of his own. Hopefully if Tryamkin and Pedan move up next season this team can give Edler more durable minutes instead of flogging him to death each night - and the guy never complains to his credit.

torts was put in a position where he would be in no position to succeed-- a transition coach. the vigs era ended and the canucks cleaned house. how was torts supposed to handle this team with new coaching staff, and a team that was built around vigs' system, and you have a hard ass coach who came in, and expected certain stuff from his team, and, oh yeah, this is my system, and you're going to learn in one season

management tried to reform torts, but that was never going to happen. you had to have been pretty dumb to think that torts would turn this team around with his one season here. i was one of the few who advocated torts, because he did have a stanley cup ring, he does have the experience. you really are nothing special, with your mentality. you try way too hard to be this white knight of cdc, to try to prove everyone wrong all the time, but theres a time where you should just stop.

if you think that i dont know that edler's been beaten down by the system here, then open up your eyes and spot picking your spots of who to argue with

under torts the entire team tanked, not just edler-- edler was just a casualty of the core we had. the core we have now, edler is the most NHL calibur defenseman we have. i love tanev as much as the next guy, but he's no physical threat whatsoever. he's a good defenseman, but he's no game changer to win a cup with. a good depth guy, thats it

[alfstonker]

1 minute ago, Twilight Sparkle said:

torts was put in a position where he would be in no position to succeed-- a transition coach. the vigs era ended and the canucks cleaned house. how was torts supposed to handle this team with new coaching staff, and a team that was built around vigs' system, and you have a hard ass coach who came in, and expected certain stuff from his team, and, oh yeah, this is my system, and you're going to learn in one season

management tried to reform torts, but that was never going to happen. you had to have been pretty dumb to think that torts would turn this team around with his one season here. i was one of the few who advocated torts, because he did have a stanley cup ring, he does have the experience. you really are nothing special, with your mentality. you try way too hard to be this white knight of cdc, to try to prove everyone wrong all the time, but theres a time where you should just stop.

if you think that i dont know that edler's been beaten down by the system here, then open up your eyes and spot picking your spots of who to argue with

under torts the entire team tanked, not just edler-- edler was just a casualty of the core we had. the core we have now, edler is the most NHL calibur defenseman we have. i love tanev as much as the next guy, but he's no physical threat whatsoever. he's a good defenseman, but he's no game changer to wing a cup with. a good depth guy, thats it

What you say about Torts seems to be ignoring the fact Edler didn't just fail, he imploded.

You also site a whole lot of excuses for Torts and yet the jist of your post which I replied to seemed to see no mitigation in favour of Willie. That to me is tunnel vision bias at it's best.

Willie has inherited a much harder situation than Tortorella and yet you have the gall to state he will never be a true NHL calibre coach despite already holding the 3rd winningest rookie coach ever in the NHL.

Your arguments are hollow and hold no merit, in fact.

[riffraff]

1 hour ago, alfstonker said:

Edler needs a rest. 

I am an admirer of Edler and I think he gets a lot of unfair criticism on here but last night there were clear signs of mental fatigue - poor hand eye co-ordination, failure to control even the easiest of passes and signs of concentration lapses and playing on auto pilot.

All these things are signs of mental if not physical fatigue and it is also showing in the play of Biega, Tanev and Hutton to a lesser extent. It's time to start rotating these guys and give them a rest now and then.

 

You describe his play for over the last two years....so is it fatigue, the coach or edler?....this fatigue excuse seems like just that, an excuse, a cop out...edler is an elite conditioned athlete and we are just at the halfway mark of the season.

 

do we give him a couple weeks off and then he's done by the last 30 games or so?....we make the playoffs hypothetically and he has no gas left for it?

 

another post you say: at least the Sedins have each other? Really?  They are still individuals on the ice, playing the most minutes against the hardest competition. Playing down low along the wall taking abuse game in and game out meanwhile producing at an elite level.  

 

Both of them.

 

agree that edler is our "number one" guy and he "plays the most minutes", but there are some dubious minutes on a consistent basis.  His last three games have been terrible.  A comparison to the Sedins at this point is a joke.  

 

All i I here is: edler is tired, torts was mean, edler needs salo, edler needs erhoff, blah blah blah.

 Edler needs to pull his head out and start making the simple play until he can go back to attempting to regain some of his bygone form.

 

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, riffraff said:

You describe his play for over the last two years....so is it fatigue, the coach or edler?....this fatigue excuse seems like just that, an excuse, a cop out...edler is an elite conditioned athlete and we are just at the halfway mark of the season.

 

do we give him a couple weeks off and then he's done by the last 30 games or so?....we make the playoffs hypothetically and he has no gas left for it?

 

another post you say: at least the Sedins have each other? Really?  They are still individuals on the ice, playing the most minutes against the hardest competition. Playing down low along the wall taking abuse game in and game out meanwhile producing at an elite level.  

 

Both of them.

 

agree that edler is our "number one" guy and he "plays the most minutes", but there are some dubious minutes on a consistent basis.  His last three games have been terrible.  A comparison to the Sedins at this point is a joke.  

 

All i I here is: edler is tired, torts was mean, edler needs salo, edler needs erhoff, blah blah blah.

 Edler needs to pull his head out and start making the simple play until he can go back to attempting to regain some of his bygone form.

 

I Edler is what we see: nothing more, nothing less.  He plays a lot of minutes on our team because we don't have a ligitimate elite number one - we never have.  I think we need to compare his value to our team to his Cap.  To me it seems about what he provides. He's not paid like the top guys, but he is paid like a top minute muncher, who plays in all parts of the game.  Sure, we would love the elite guy, but how does moving Edler get us that player?

[riffraff]

8 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I Edler is what we see: nothing more, nothing less.  He plays a lot of minutes on our team because we don't have a ligitimate elite number one - we never have.  I think we need to compare his value to our team to his Cap.  To me it seems about what he provides. He's not paid like the top guys, but he is paid like a top minute muncher, who plays in all parts of the game.  Sure, we would love the elite guy, but how does moving Edler get us that player?

I agree 100%

 

im just frustrated by those looking for excuse to defend an elite athlete earning millions, especially comparing edler to the Sedins as far as relying on somebody other than yourself.  I'm aware that the Sedins play as a duo and that a dpairing is a partnership as well but out on the ice you still have to be accountable for your own play.

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, riffraff said:

I agree 100%

 

im just frustrated by those looking for excuse to defend an elite athlete earning millions, especially comparing edler to the Sedins as far as relying on somebody other than yourself.  I'm aware that the Sedins play as a duo and that a dpairing is a partnership as well but out on the ice you still have to be accountable for your own play.

Yup.  Excuses are for those who lose.  It's like being reactive, rather than proactive on the ice.  The Twins dictate the play.  Edler, doesn't.  None of our D are capable of that.

[alfstonker]

1 hour ago, riffraff said:

I agree 100%

 

im just frustrated by those looking for excuse to defend an elite athlete earning millions, especially comparing edler to the Sedins as far as relying on somebody other than yourself.  I'm aware that the Sedins play as a duo and that a dpairing is a partnership as well but out on the ice you still have to be accountable for your own play.

I wasn't comparing Edler to the Sedins, I was comparing what they are up against in this rebuild. If you can't see the help the Sedins get from each other in ability and compare that to Edler who has a capable but lightweight assistant then you are not understanding the game.

Of course every player is accountable but are you seriously saying that your line mates don't affect that accountability? I hope not. My point is that when we meet a physical team it helps if your D partner has the body and the "intention" to be a physical counterpart.

Tanev for all his coolness and his undoubted ability gets knocked about too easily because his game doesn't allow for playing any other way - do you think that helps the partnership?

[alfstonker]

1 hour ago, riffraff said:

You describe his play for over the last two years....so is it fatigue, the coach or edler?....this fatigue excuse seems like just that, an excuse, a cop out...edler is an elite conditioned athlete and we are just at the halfway mark of the season.

How is it an excuse? Do you really think that when Sbisa is not playing that our D does not rely almost totally on Edler's big body and his ability night after night to eat up huge minutes always against the top lines and often getting "less than physical" help from our Cs.

 

do we give him a couple weeks off and then he's done by the last 30 games or so?....we make the playoffs hypothetically and he has no gas left for it?

No we give him a couple of games rest and play Sbisa when he's fit or bring Pedan up and pair Hutton with Tanev. And then watch what happens to our goals against column.

 

another post you say: at least the Sedins have each other? Really?  They are still individuals on the ice, playing the most minutes against the hardest competition. Playing down low along the wall taking abuse game in and game out meanwhile producing at an elite level.  

And what do you think Edler is doing, sitting with his feet up sipping coffee?

 

Both of them.

 

agree that edler is our "number one" guy and he "plays the most minutes", but there are some dubious minutes on a consistent basis.  His last three games have been terrible.  A comparison to the Sedins at this point is a joke.  

No his last game was terrible and as I say down to fatigue and if you can't see the merit of Danny playing with Hank after all these years I feel sorry for you.

 

All i I here is: edler is tired, torts was mean, edler needs salo, edler needs erhoff, blah blah blah.

 Edler needs to pull his head out and start making the simple play until he can go back to attempting to regain some of his bygone form.

You need to get an understanding of what confronts Edler night after night and to imply that a highly paid and well conditioned sportsman can't suffer from mental fatigue makes me wonder why I am even debating this with you. 

By the way did you watch the "simple plays' most of the rest of the team were making, including the Twins, last night? It's not just Edler who needs to get his head out. The Sedins are inclined to be far too intricate against pressing physical teams and last night was a classic example

 

 

[riffraff]

42 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

 

I never stated that linemates don't affect performance. Maybe you missed that in my post.  You mention physicality amongst our d or lack thereof by other dmen. I agree with this and have been saying so for years.  But when was the last time we can recall edler being consistently physical?  When was his last effective check?  It's pretty obvious he's struggling to read plays on a basic level which prevents him from timing a decent hit.

 

if mgmt has contracted edler to be in our number one pairing he should perform as such and it's been a long time accompanied with a list of excuses as to why that isn happening.

 

pedan and Hutton are rookie/prospects and should never be looks to to pad the goals against column.  Someone with your unparalleled knowledge should know this.  Apparently the coaching staff haven't become aware of your suggestion regarding pairings either.  Pedan barely had a cup of coffee here.

 

i appreciate your condescending comments towards my knowledge of the game coupled with omitting or ignoring parts of my post to support your statements as facts and your own higher knowledge.  Seems to be a trend in your responses to various lower level posters

[Jack Fig]

Top-pairing D guys are competitive animals by nature. There's no challenge they won't take on for the benefit of the team. But Edler isn't that guy. He's forced to play top minutes here because nobody else can really do any better. It's as much a comment on the current makeup of the Canucks D as it is Edler's ability to play plenty of minutes and keep the mistakes down to a minimum. It can't be had. He's adequate some nights, in over his head on others, and completely out to lunch a handful of times each year (like last night).

[Canucklehead73]

Edler was rolling along pretty decently early on but has gone cold as ice the last month or so... definitely gripping the stick too tight. He has been "ok" in his own end but has not been able to generate anything up the ice getting burnt in the process. Not sure what the answer is. Haven't looked at his minutes... maybe he is being over used.

[CeeBee51]

I think the back injury Edler had a few years ago is part of the problem. I injured my back 35 years ago in Construction work and it generally affects you forever after.  Less mobility and just the worry of re-injury can be a problem.

[Screw]

Edler kills me.  The mistakes he makes reminds me of Sopel.   He certainty doesn't score enough for someone with his  amount of ice time and Power play time.

 Please trade this guy.

[alfstonker]

19 minutes ago, riffraff said:

I never stated that linemates don't affect performance. Maybe you missed that in my post.  You mention physicality amongst our d or lack thereof by other dmen. I agree with this and have been saying so for years.  But when was the last time we can recall edler being consistently physical?  When was his last effective check?  It's pretty obvious he's struggling to read plays on a basic level which prevents him from timing a decent hit.

 

if mgmt has contracted edler to be in our number one pairing he should perform as such and it's been a long time accompanied with a list of excuses as to why that isn happening.

 

pedan and Hutton are rookie/prospects and should never be looks to to pad the goals against column.  Someone with your unparalleled knowledge should know this.  Apparently the coaching staff haven't become aware of your suggestion regarding pairings either.  Pedan barely had a cup of coffee here.

I was being facetious or did you miss the bit about goals against column. Of course that would not be a solution. The only solution would be as I said Sibisa.

 

i appreciate your condescending comments towards my knowledge of the game coupled with omitting or ignoring parts of my post to support your statements as facts and your own higher knowledge.  Seems to be a trend in your responses to various lower level posters

Kindly point them out and let's discuss then. It's too easy and a tactic often used as a cop out to say something like that and you know it. Playing for the sympathy vote does not become you.

Was it where you said "highly paid conditioned" sportsmen should not suffer mental fatigue?

or was it where you said line mates should make no difference to your performance/accountability?

or maybe where you actually implied Edler didn't have to scrap and fight on the boards like the Twins? You do realise that whatever Danny/Hank is going through is mirrored at the opposite end of the ice by Edler?

 

[aGENT]

11 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

And once again, Alex Edler is disappearing for the umpteenth time this season. When will management get it through their heads that he's a horrible excuse for a first pairing defenseman?

 

Yeah let's just bring up some of out top 2 capable prospects to replace him!! 

Oh... wait.... 

[PhillipBlunt]

4 hours ago, Twilight Sparkle said:

in the days where vigs had good coaching staff around him, we have an AHL coach in WD, who will never be a true NHL caliber couch, and doug lidster as an assistant, with gully. edler is not a horrible defenseman. as everyone forgets he was one of our top defensemen at one point. coaching staff does make a difference in players' overall play. after vigs left, he took his defensive style with him and this team started to show its true colours

 

as for being a "horrible first pairing" he's all this team has, as an nhl ready first pairing. live with it

Living in the past and dreaming of the good ole days with AV does nothing to lend credibility to the argument. Yes Desjardin is a bit of a joke, but Edler has shown his inconsistency with AV, Torts, and now Desjardins. Tortorella saw Edler for what he really was, and called him out for his lazy, uninterested play.

Edler has stamina and endurance to spare. There is no question of his ability to log huge minutes. It's what he does with those minutes that is truly alarming. He is the ultimate Jekyll and Hyde player on the team. He has the ability to dominate, as proven in the last game against the Rangers where he was vital in the win. However 80% of the time, Edler has games like he did yesterday, where his puckhandling and composure in his own end evaporate as soon as the opposition applies any physical pressure against him.

His real value to the team at this point is in a trade. He still holds huge worth due to his skill set and cap hit, and would garner the best return of any player on the team under 30. I wouldn't be surprised if Benning approached Edler and asks him to waive. He did it to Bieksa, who in some ways was far more valuable to the team from a leadership perspective. Edler will never be a leader. He's a follower and needs to be on a team where the responsibility of anchoring the d corps doesn't hang around his neck.

Yes, I agree that Desjardin probably isn't going last. But to hang Edler's inconsistencies and issues on Willie is dipping into the realm of insanity.

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, J.R. said:

Yeah let's just bring up some of out top 2 capable prospects to replace him!! 

Oh... wait.... 

At the deadline or during the summer. I should have clarified. He has more worth to this team in a trade than he does playing out his contract. You know that as much as I do, J.R.  If it's between trading Hamhuis and Edler, I'd rather keep Hamhuis to mentor the youth, and utilize Edler's value in a trade. The cap hit removed would allow Benning all the more cap room to trade for a real number one in the offseason.

[aGENT]

4 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

At the deadline or during the summer. I should have clarified. He has more worth to this team in a trade than he does playing out his contract. You know that as much as I do, J.R.  If it's between trading Hamhuis and Edler, I'd rather keep Hamhuis to mentor the youth, and utilize Edler's value in a trade. The cap hit removed would allow Benning all the more cap room to trade for a real number one in the offseason.

We're not likely to get a #1 through trade or via UFA. We could certainly find a couple solid #2's though which is better than what we have now (one #2...being Edler).