The Kids are alright!

[DIBdaQUIB]

I think all of the kids will be fine once they develop to their potential which is likely 2 - 3 years away.

As for top end talent like the Oilers or Avalanche...after watching their game last night, I can see why JB is so high on Jake and Bo as the kind of kids he wants.  Both teams have numerous top picks playing and are young fast and talented.

What stood out was how the Avs stars are also big and physical.   The difference was obvious in how the game was played and tilted in favour of the Avs.

BO and Jake play that kind of game.  They have offensive talent and can skate but also have big bodies and can use that to their advantage. 

McCann and Shink are more Oilers type talent, fast, shifty and talented but don't match up to the size and physicality of many teams.

 Slightly less offensive talent in a bigger body that is fast with good IQ is good trade-off.  Jake, Bo and even Boesser seem to fit that mold.

Still room for some of the smaller/slighter kids but you can't have smurfs on yore top lines and rely on thugs on your bottom lines in today's NHL.

[DIBdaQUIB]

Just now, DIBdaQUIB said:

I think all of the kids will be fine once they develop to their potential which is likely 2 - 3 years away.

As for top end talent like the Oilers or Avalanche...after watching their game last night, I can see why JB is so high on Jake and Bo as the kind of kids he wants.  Both teams have numerous top picks playing and are young fast and talented.

What stood out was how the Avs stars are also big and physical.   The difference was obvious in how the game was played and tilted in favour of the Avs. MacKinnon, Landeskog and Duchene were physically dominant as well as being fast and offensively gifted.

BO and Jake play that kind of game.  They have offensive talent and can skate but also have big bodies and can use that to their advantage. 

McCann and Shink are more Oilers type talent, fast, shifty and talented but don't match up to the size and physicality of many teams.

 Slightly less offensive talent in a bigger body that is fast with good IQ is good trade-off.  Jake, Bo and even Boesser seem to fit that mold.

Still room for some of the smaller/slighter kids but you can't have smurfs on your top lines and rely on thugs on your bottom lines in today's NHL.

 

[Alflives]

7 hours ago, alfstonker said:

Alf, one word, Datsyuk.

Google top 50 NHL players and see how many were low picks and undrafted. 

There are players, who are outliers, but our chances of getting elite talent is better the higher we draft.  Go back over these past few drafts and look at the difference between the top three guys and who we drafted.  Our young core that we are building won't be able to compete with those top guys.  IMHAO.

[stawns]

7 hours ago, alfstonker said:

Alf, one word, Datsyuk.

Google top 50 NHL players and see how many were low picks and undrafted. 

There's a pretty good story about why datsyuk was available and how Kenny managed to snag him.  Too long to post here, but it's bure-esque.

[alfstonker]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

There are players, who are outliers, but our chances of getting elite talent is better the higher we draft.  Go back over these past few drafts and look at the difference between the top three guys and who we drafted.  Our young core that we are building won't be able to compete with those top guys.  IMHAO.

I'm not disputing that, I'm saying it depends on who is making the choice. Detroit is a perfect example as is Boston (JB?) and Chicago.

Of course the chances of an elite player are better if you draft near the top but don't forget the Oilers, Florida and Buffalo have drafted near the top for years with little success.

It is how you nurture and develop the draft picks that really makes the difference. You mention the past few years and I say to you Gillis, his scouts, Chicago Wolves and it's coaches. 

Here is the draft positions of Detroit from A-Z of their roster.

42nd, 88th, 171st, undrafted, 291st, 97th, undrafted, 29th, 132nd, 64th. 35th, 19th, 29th, 25th (larkin) 186th, 141st, 121st, 111th, 132nd, 64th (Brad Richards) 21st, 27th, 60th, 210th (Zetterberg  their Captain)

Not only is that humbling but it should be compulsory reading for all the brain addled idiots who constantly post about tanking and winning the lottery.

 

[Toni Zamboni]

to lazy for a photoshop...

 

[Stelar]

Can't wait till we lose today and suddenly our young talent sucks and Benning can't draft. 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

I'm not disputing thet, I'm saying it depends on who is making the choice. Detroit is a perfect example as is Boston (JB?) and Chicago.

Of course the chances of an elite player is better if you draft near the top but don't forget the Oilers, Florida and Buffalo have drafted near the top for years with little success.

It is how you nurture and develop the draft picks that really makes the difference. You mention the past few years and I say to you Gillis, his scouts, Chicago Wolves and it's coaches. 

Do you think we picked any outliers in JBs two drafts?  How do you stack up our three first rounders compared to other teams?  I think we are behind, unless we have a couple outliers.

[alfstonker]

11 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Do you think we picked any outliers in JBs two drafts?  How do you stack up our three first rounders compared to other teams?  I think we are behind, unless we have a couple outliers.

I do, I would look to Trympkin, Subban, Olson, Brisebois, Zhukenov,  Cassels, Lukas Jasek has made the Czech World Junior team. and even Neil so yes as I say if these players are developed, Detroit style, there is a good chance for a good few of them.

There is also Grenier, Gaunce, Shink, and Freisen from the previous regime now that they are under a fine coach and in a good system who could still make it.

There is also a guy in Sweden (Anton Rodin) who I used to like in our Chicago Wolves affiliate but who lost his way and was allowed to go back home, and is now lighting up the Swedish League. I understand we still have or had some player rights there and JB wants to look at him with a view to enticing him back. He's 25 and may yet prove to be a good NHL player.

[JamesB]

14 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

Regarding Willie D sticking with them.  What option has he had really?  Who does he replace them with that is more reliable to save his skin?

 

14 hours ago, SedinMadness said:

The canucks could start to package of some of the young guys in trades for some veteran help... that is what torts would recommend.

I think Kevin Biestra has the right call on this one. I like WD, but he did not have a lot of options. As for trading prospects for veteran help, that is the GM's call, not the coach's. And JB has, to his credit, said the Canucks will not be doing that.

JB did trade Kassian for Prust, but that was a special case.

[JamesB]

13 hours ago, Alflives said:

We need to compare our next core (the kids) to other teams' top kids.  Are our kids going to be a Cup contending group, compared to the Oilers, Flames, Coyotes, Avs, Preds, etc.  The list goes on.  We are middle of the pack.  That means middle of the pack picks, and the cycle continues.  WE NEED TOP END ELITE TALENT THAT CAN SCORE CONSISTANTLY AT THIS LEVEL. I love our kids too, but realistically they don't match up with too many of the other teams' top young players.  

This is the right question. The question is not "do we have some good young guys?" The question is "how do our good young guys compare with other teams".

Three years ago the Canucks had one of worst developmental pipelines in the league. (By "developmental pipeline" I mean prospects and young guys actually on the team.) Their pipeline is a lot better now. But I am not sure is any more than about average. With their recent high draft picks Buffalo, Edmonton, Calgary, Toronto, Florida, Arizona, Winnipeg and other teams all look good -- better than the Canucks.

The draft has become so scientific that it is hard to pick outliers, which makes for a high level of parity. And the cap increases parity as well.

We were lucky in having two star-level players (the Sedins) join the team at the same time and really carry the team for a full generation. That is a tough act to repeat. But that is what the really successful teams do (like Chicago with Toews, Kane, and Keith or Detroit with Datsyuk and Zetterberg).

The Canucks do have a number of young guys who will at least be solid NHL players. But I think we are still looking for star level forwards and/or a Norris contender D to lead the team.

And high draft picks certainly increase your chances of getting players of that calibre.

[Alflives]

4 hours ago, JamesB said:

This is the right question. The question is not "do we have some good young guys?" The question is "how do our good young guys compare with other teams".

Three years ago the Canucks had one of worst developmental pipelines in the league. (By "developmental pipeline" I mean prospects and young guys actually on the team.) Their pipeline is a lot better now. But I am not sure is any more than about average. With their recent high draft picks Buffalo, Edmonton, Calgary, Toronto, Florida, Arizona, Winnipeg and other teams all look good -- better than the Canucks.

The draft has become so scientific that it is hard to pick outliers, which makes for a high level of parity. And the cap increases parity as well.

We were lucky in having two star-level players (the Sedins) join the team at the same time and really carry the team for a full generation. That is a tough act to repeat. But that is what the really successful teams do (like Chicago with Toews, Kane, and Keith or Detroit with Datsyuk and Zetterberg).

The Canucks do have a number of young guys who will at least be solid NHL players. But I think we are still looking for star level forwards and/or a Norris contender D to lead the team.

And high draft picks certainly increase your chances of getting players of that calibre.

A good start would be to get one of the top three picks this June and get either Tkachuk or Paliarvi.  I assume Matthews goes first.  After that, I don't know if there is that elite talent in this draft?

[Crabcakes]

5 hours ago, JamesB said:

This is the right question. The question is not "do we have some good young guys?" The question is "how do our good young guys compare with other teams".

Three years ago the Canucks had one of worst developmental pipelines in the league. (By "developmental pipeline" I mean prospects and young guys actually on the team.) Their pipeline is a lot better now. But I am not sure is any more than about average. With their recent high draft picks Buffalo, Edmonton, Calgary, Toronto, Florida, Arizona, Winnipeg and other teams all look good -- better than the Canucks.

The draft has become so scientific that it is hard to pick outliers, which makes for a high level of parity. And the cap increases parity as well.

We were lucky in having two star-level players (the Sedins) join the team at the same time and really carry the team for a full generation. That is a tough act to repeat. But that is what the really successful teams do (like Chicago with Toews, Kane, and Keith or Detroit with Datsyuk and Zetterberg).

The Canucks do have a number of young guys who will at least be solid NHL players. But I think we are still looking for star level forwards and/or a Norris contender D to lead the team.

And high draft picks certainly increase your chances of getting players of that calibre.

I agree but development is more important than drafting.  Datsyuk, 5th round 171 overall.  Zetterberg, 7th round 210 overall.

Building a team is obviously much more complicated than picking high in the draft. 

[DownUndaCanuck]

We could have always replaced some of the guys in our lineup with Gaunce or Shinkaruk, that's about the only option WD has really. His hands are tied.

[Crabcakes]

34 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

We could have always replaced some of the guys in our lineup with Gaunce or Shinkaruk, that's about the only option WD has really. His hands are tied.

Yes. The easiest move Benning has this season is renting out Prust at the deadline.  He's a UFA and would be welcome depth and grit for a team ready to make a push for the cup.  Gaunce on 4th line left wing would be seamless.

Edit.  Might even be an upgrade.

[Gstank29]

1 minute ago, Crabcakes said:

Yes. The easiest move Benning has this season is renting out Prust at the deadline.  He's a UFA and would be welcome depth and grit for a team ready to make a push for the cup.  Gaunce on 4th line left wing would be seamless.

Rodin could replace Vrbata as well.

Personally I dont see Benning trading Hamhuis for picks, but i do think he moves Higgins, Prust, and Vrbata

[Crabcakes]

21 minutes ago, Gstank29 said:

Rodin could replace Vrbata as well.

Personally I dont see Benning trading Hamhuis for picks, but i do think he moves Higgins, Prust, and Vrbata

That would be awesome if he did. 

I honestly expect Rodin to be another Baertschi.  That's not a bad thing.  What I mean is that he might take 25 or 30 games to round into form as it appears Baer is doing right now.  He's a bit of a wild card imo not having played in North America for a few years.

[stawns]

I'm happy to see the young guys stepping up their game and taking some control over the outcomes of the games.........that's what we all wanted isn't it?  I hope when Hank gets back, wd continues to give them important minutes, rather the steady dose of sedins

[DownUndaCanuck]

I don't think Rodin's ever going to crack a Canucks lineup, even if he does get signed. Another team might have room but the Canucks are far too stacked at wing now, especially next season.

Even if we lose Vbrata and Higgins (who will be hard to move), we're too stacked. Gaunce and Shinkaruk belong in the NHL this season, they definately both do next season. Prust's contract expires so we lose him but you'd think Virtanen has to stick all of next season as well.

Sedin - Sedin - UFA (Lucic/Okposo/Ladd/there's a few others who could fit nicely, replace Vbrata's cap hit and scoring)

Baertschi - Sutter - Hansen (suprassed Burrows IMO)

Shinkaruk - McCann - Burrows

Gaunce - Horvat - Dorsett

Virtanen

[Dumb Nuck]

Sorry but I don't see any future cup winning talent, I'd love to but I'm not going to kid myself. Sad thing when your looking to the future while playing in the present.