Gaudette Celly Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I like Horvat's game, he always seems to go where the pucks going to be.I think with more experience and confidence he will translate his forecheck into better scoring opportunities.I think he's playing like he's scared to make a mistake (rookie stuff).Nice GWG in FLA tho. Plus I think he needs to stay on top of his faceoff % game too. While very true up to a few games ago, he's changed quite a bit in the last two games especially. Whereas before he was kindof lingering around the blueline trying to be responsible and gingerly tapping his checks along the boards, he is now using more aggression and speed to get in on the puck and when going to the net. He had two great chances taking passes in front of the net last night, and was one of if not the best forward on the team, imo. The kid IS going to put up points in this league. And yes, he's also looking faster -- perhaps because he is accelerating in anticipation of a play and is getting past guys with his momentum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plum Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I don't want him playing too much, he was going like 80% in junior in about 70 games + playoffs, this time in the NHL he's going 100% in a 82 game season + playoffs and it's alot more physical, plus he's trying his hardest to not make mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 If they overload him now, he might peak, plateau & whither late-season, leading to a summer of nagging doubts about his last stretch. So they very gradually add mins/responsibilities as the months pass, with his peak performance hopefully coinciding with the team's PO-stretch. If he feels fatigue, a slight downward adjustment(in mins) wouldn't even be noticeable. Looking at his game now, I'd say this is unlikely. I see the kid ending the season in top-form. Perhaps by then he'll be grabbing 12-14 mins some nights. This will bring on a summer where he's confident, & visualizing continued excellent play in 2015-16. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoneypuckOverlord Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 anyone read the province today? Apparently Bo Horvat has one of the worst Corsi's in the leauge right now It was just mentioned on the Province today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
people please Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 He's playing good tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCanuck Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 He's progressing very well, he's been getting more offensive chances lately. He shrugs off some players like they're nothing and has some good playmaking ability. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyhee Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 anyone read the province today? Apparently Bo Horvat has one of the worst Corsi's in the leauge right now It was just mentioned on the Province today. As one should expect from a 19 year old, it's a big step up for him but he's showing improvement. Higher on this page is my post of 12:49 p.m. January 10, which showed Horvat with a CF% of 41.1 and a CF%RelTM of -7.8. His play the last few games have raised those season figures a little, to 42.2 and -7.4. The trend is going the right way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniwaki Canuck Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 anyone read the province today? Apparently Bo Horvat has one of the worst Corsi's in the leauge right now It was just mentioned on the Province today. Yeah, it doesn't quite line up with the eye-test in recent games, but is probably a legacy of his play in December, which wasn't at the same level as what we're seeing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I'm sure people can make sense of Corsi, but to me, as an average viewer, it's meaningless. He's showing himself to make very good plays, such as making crisp passes and shooting on net. He's hustling back to defend, like he did in Florida. He tied up his man - and he still had enough energy to skate to center to dump the puck down. Great play by the kid, but none of which would show up under Corsi. You can't expect him to score 50+ goals doing roles like this, but he's learning the game - and he's not being rushed. Next season - or later this season, they might play with him and have him do something different (harder tasks). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) When you play an avg of 10 minutes per night....7-8minutes in tight games and 12-13 in blowouts....and regardless of how well or bad you play, thats enough to kill confidence in anybody. I get the process WD is trying to establish, the learning curve, but if Horvat is not tested, pushed a little bit, how is he suppose to grow, develop. Even though, personnally I would like Horvat to be our permanent 3C, I don't understand why he hasn't been given 15-16 minutes as a 3C for at least 3-5 games this season. I mean, I know we are in a battle, the standing is tight, but that same core proved time and time again that they will fail in crunch time. Why not try him out, get some fresh blood once in a while. All he's learning is not making a mistake, be safe, thinking too much instead of letting his talent and instinct speak for itself. He's learning to be Chris Higgins 2.0. I mean Higgins is a great depth guy, but Horvat has so much more potential. I don't want to compare Horvat to any of them, but look at Ekblad, he was giving a chance and impressed. Or Gaudreau with the Flames, I mean he has a completely different role than Horvat, but if he can play 16minutes a night without being a liability, why can't Horvat do it. We could say the same about Burakovsky, Kuznetsov. Isn't the first paragraph the definition of a 4th line role? Bo is playing that role as a 19-yr-old teenager playing in the best men's league - why would he not have confidence? If his confidence relies on his role on a team and playing big minutes, he should have been sent down to the OHL. I would argue that Bo is being pushed everyday - he's playing against men as an 19-yr-old. He's not playing 3C because Richardson still has better game than he does. He's learning not to make mistakes first because that is the most basic thing. Once his game improves, he'll get more minutes and start working on other aspects of the game. Also, just because he's learning not to make mistakes, doesn't mean that he can't learn anything else. He should still be able to learn other things on the fly. If he turns out to be another Higgins because he was thrusted in this role as a 19-yr-old, then too bad. I guess we ruined his potential and therefore his development. He should have returned to the OHL to increase his offensive potential rather than stay in the NHL in a 4th line role where he has to play mistake-free hockey. And btw, Higgins' career high is 52 points - not bad if Bo can reach that and remain there consistently (the latter is what Higgins couldn't do). Did you see Ekblad play? He wasn't "given" a chance to succeed - he earned it. This kid is amazing - he would be on our top pairing if he was on the Canucks. Gaudreau doesn't play 16 minutes without being a liability - but he can do things offensively that Horvat can only dream of at this point of his career. There is high reward to the relatively lower risk taken in playing Gaudreau 16 minutes - while less risk of playing Bo 16 minutes is much lesser, so is the reward. Bo isn't good enough to play those minutes because the reward is not high enough. At any rate, I'm happy that he's doing well in his role and is coming along nicely. Although his confidence may be taking a bit of a hit here and there his playing time will increase and there is virtually zero chance he gets burned out before the playoffs which could happen to Eckblad or Johnny hockey if there minutes keep increasing. Definitely. Not sure if it would matter much though, as it's less likely he gets more minutes in the playoffs - the trends show that Bo gets 10+ minutes in blowout games but less than 10 when it's a close/important game. Edited January 22, 2015 by Dasein 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Benning said the same thing in his interview today -- very happy the way Bo's been progressing, especially in the last few games. Their line gets hemmed in at times which probably accounts for the poor fancy stats, but it's great watching him get better and more confident game-by-game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Barzal Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Stats don't mean jack IMO. I'd rather have a team that can dominate possession rather than fling every shot at the net and hope for something to happen. That's what poor teams do. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamJamIam Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Stats don't mean jack IMO. I'd rather have a team that can dominate possession rather than fling every shot at the net and hope for something to happen. That's what poor teams do. Corsi = possession, especially on the team level given the massive sample size. Saying otherwise is ignorance on the order of "Global warming is just a theory" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Barzal Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Corsi = possession, especially on the team level given the massive sample size. Saying otherwise is ignorance on the order of "Global warming is just a theory" I'm not saying don't take shots, but with Torts we flung everything at the net and look how that worked out. Booth had great advanced stats, that didn't make him any better than Santorelli or Higgins. He killed possession with those type of shots. On the flipside, Horvat takes shots that are smart and if he doesn't think that a rebound opportunity is there or he can't hit the open space he will hold onto it or dish it elsewhere. That is the mark of a great player. His stats might be terrible but I don't think it's even close to being indicative of how he's played. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Corsi = possession, especially on the team level given the massive sample size. Saying otherwise is ignorance on the order of "Global warming is just a theory" On average at the team level Corsi does seem to be fairly closely correlated with possession. However, possession is not the same thing as success. Some players and some teams do more with possession than others. Also, for an individual player with a specific role corsi can be misleading. For example, it is well-known that when a team is ahead in the game it will take more shots than when it is behind -- which leads to attempts to use score-adjusted corsi or score-adjusted fenwick numbers. (See http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2012/1/23/2722089/score-adjusted-fenwick) I am pretty sure Horvat gets more ice-time when the team is ahead than when the team is behind by a goal and is trying to catch up. This would tend to reduce his corsi number. And of course the question of who you play with and play against is important. The following article shows how a player who apparently had the best corsi among defensemen on the team actually had the worst contribution to net shots. (See http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2013/08/01/why-corsi-numbers-get-it-wrong-with-some-players/). The fix for this is to use corsi numbers adjusted for quality of competition and quality of line-mates, but this involves a lot of adjustment. Also, some players take a lot of low-probability shots while others are more selective -- or at least are more likely to score on a given shot. For such players corsi will understate their value. Given the style of game Horvat plays it is not surprising his corsi is low. I would not read too much into it at this stage, although I acknowledge that corsi numbers do reveal interesting information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpluto96 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 If you can't trust WD's ability to work and develop young players, then who can you trust? Whichever way WD deploys Bo, it's fine with me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horvat Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 If you can't trust WD's ability to work and develop young players, then who can you trust? Whichever way WD deploys Bo, it's fine with me. i trust him too 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoneypuckOverlord Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I'm not saying don't take shots, but with Torts we flung everything at the net and look how that worked out. Booth had great advanced stats, that didn't make him any better than Santorelli or Higgins. He killed possession with those type of shots. On the flipside, Horvat takes shots that are smart and if he doesn't think that a rebound opportunity is there or he can't hit the open space he will hold onto it or dish it elsewhere. That is the mark of a great player. His stats might be terrible but I don't think it's even close to being indicative of how he's played. that's so wrong man, we had the fewest shots on goal in the entire league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Marchand Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 that's so wrong man, we had the fewest shots on goal in the entire league. What? The Canucks were 11th in the NHL with 30.8 shots per game last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 If you can't trust WD's ability to work and develop young players, then who can you trust? Whichever way WD deploys Bo, it's fine with me. Just to support the point, I cannot say for sure that there is no-one in hockey with a better record of developing young players than WD, but there aren't many. And that should fit well with JB's strength in evaluating talent. Of course it will take a while for these attributes -- obtaining and developing good young players -- to have an effect. But we can see some glimmering already with progress from Horvat, Corrado and Vey and better depth in the farm system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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