avelanch Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Has Horvat been on the ice for any goals for either side? nope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyhee Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Well, Vey only got 11 min in TOI against Montreal. So looks like he is the prime candidate to sit if Willie wants to see what Horvat can do. That's possible, but it would require Canucks to break up their 1st unit powerplay. I'm guessing Vey gets a pass for that reason. Canucks didn't have much PP time last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) If that's the only issue then I'm not worried one bit, he's great in the dot, he seemed to win every faceoff he took in the Mem cup. I think perhaps its just a matter of knocking off the rust & getting his timing back. There is something to be said about the AHL vs NHL however. The AHL is generally more scrambly, and the NHL is more structured. In terms of the flow of the game. For a cerebral player like Horvat, his game might better suit the NHL than AHL, he looked like an NHL player in the pre-season especially with the way he forechecks & plays down low, which has been something all along with Horvat that has been quite understated IMO, its a huge asset for him as far as the NHL game goes. Aside from not picking up points, the reviews on his play in the AHL seem solid, but that being said I'm going to reserve judgment for when he's back up here & playing with the big club, for Horvat that's when it matters the most, so we will have to see how he does. You seem to contradict yourself in responding to the 1st OP and mine. You say if faceoffs are the only issue, then you are not worried one bit because Bo seemed to win every draw in the Memorial Cup against junior players? To echo your response to me - there's something to be said about the CHL vs AHL however - and it's even greater than the AHL vs NHL. The obvious is that CHL is for boys and AHL is for men. Bo was good on draws against junior players. But the AHL consists of professional players (mostly) age 20 and up. If he's struggling in the AHL, he will do so even more in the NHL, so I would be very worried. Obviously there is rust in returning from injury but hopefully he shakes it off or else he's not going to stand a chance in making the Canucks. Without his supposed faceoff prowess, Bo doesn't have a specialty that gives him an edge over anyone on our roster (except Sestito but he sits in the press box so moot point). As for the AHL vs NHL disparity, as I mentioned - good players should still look good. I'm not saying Bo hasn't looked good - from all reports from Utica, it sounds like he's playing well minus on the dot. I'm just saying that the quality of linemates isn't an adequate excuse for a young player's lack of production or struggle (if they are struggling - which it seems, Bo isn't). Edited October 31, 2014 by Dasein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) EDIT: Edited October 31, 2014 by Dasein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totes McGoats Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Horvat will slot in in exchange for Burrows - as burrows is going to be suspended for 3-5 games most likely. We can bump up Matthias or Vey to the 2nd line in a wing position, and stick Horvat on the 3rd line centre position. Life is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) Horvat will slot in in exchange for Burrows - as burrows is going to be suspended for 3-5 games most likely. We can bump up Matthias Kassian or Vey to the 2nd line in a wing position, and stick Horvat on the 3rd line 4th line centre position. Life is good. FTFY Edited October 31, 2014 by J.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totes McGoats Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 FTFY yeah, true most likely, however wouldn't you think that Horvat with Kassian might not be a bad fit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 yeah, true most likely, however wouldn't you think that Horvat with Kassian might not be a bad fit? Maybe next year? Sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
people please Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 What an accomplishment. You hate him or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 You seem to contradict yourself in responding to the 1st OP and mine. You say if faceoffs are the only issue, then you are not worried one bit because Bo seemed to win every draw in the Memorial Cup against junior players? To echo your response to me - there's something to be said about the CHL vs AHL however - and it's even greater than the AHL vs NHL. The obvious is that CHL is for boys and AHL is for men. Bo was good on draws against junior players. But the AHL consists of professional players (mostly) age 20 and up. If he's struggling in the AHL, he will do so even more in the NHL, so I would be very worried. Obviously there is rust in returning from injury but hopefully he shakes it off or else he's not going to stand a chance in making the Canucks. Without his supposed faceoff prowess, Bo doesn't have a specialty that gives him an edge over anyone on our roster (except Sestito but he sits in the press box so moot point). As for the AHL vs NHL disparity, as I mentioned - good players should still look good. I'm not saying Bo hasn't looked good - from all reports from Utica, it sounds like he's playing well minus on the dot. I'm just saying that the quality of linemates isn't an adequate excuse for a young player's lack of production or struggle (if they are struggling - which it seems, Bo isn't). Jordan Shroeder looked awful in the AHL up until this year and now he is killing it, top 3 in scoring in the league. Horvat is a lock to settle in much faster then J.S. did. The AHL is a different league some who do good there can't make the NHL and vica versa... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BananaMash Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 You hate him or something? You don't have to hate him to see that being straight 0 across the board is NOT something that should be celebrated. Things could be going worse, considering he's coming off an injury, but it's definitely nothing spectacular. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 You don't have to hate him to see that being straight 0 across the board is NOT something that should be celebrated. Things could be going worse, considering he's coming off an injury, but it's definitely nothing spectacular. Uhmmm...half way through the second period and Bing. is leading Utica 3-0, Utica with lot's of -1's and -2's on the team. Bo has 0's across the board... celebrate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2SKATES1STICK Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 From the Utica site: BOO! Horvat: Vancouver Canucks 2013 first-round draft pick, Bo Horvat, was assigned to the Comets on a conditioning assignment last week, and has appeared in four Comets games to this point. The forward has fired eight shots on goal, without a point. With the assignment, the Comets currently have five first round draft picks on the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 (edited) You seem to contradict yourself in responding to the 1st OP and mine. You say if faceoffs are the only issue, then you are not worried one bit because Bo seemed to win every draw in the Memorial Cup against junior players? To echo your response to me - there's something to be said about the CHL vs AHL however - and it's even greater than the AHL vs NHL. The obvious is that CHL is for boys and AHL is for men. Bo was good on draws against junior players. But the AHL consists of professional players (mostly) age 20 and up. If he's struggling in the AHL, he will do so even more in the NHL, so I would be very worried. Obviously there is rust in returning from injury but hopefully he shakes it off or else he's not going to stand a chance in making the Canucks. Without his supposed faceoff prowess, Bo doesn't have a specialty that gives him an edge over anyone on our roster (except Sestito but he sits in the press box so moot point). As for the AHL vs NHL disparity, as I mentioned - good players should still look good. I'm not saying Bo hasn't looked good - from all reports from Utica, it sounds like he's playing well minus on the dot. I'm just saying that the quality of linemates isn't an adequate excuse for a young player's lack of production or struggle (if they are struggling - which it seems, Bo isn't). Your taking my comment about the Mem cup and making way too big a deal of it. It was really a minor comment, had nothing to do with my response to you. FWIW he was also pretty good in the pre-season, against men. So there you go. The point was, faceoffs have always been a strong point of his game even in NHL pre-season hockey, and he's coming off injury where he will need time to get his timing back, if one of his biggest strengths is his only issue right now (and he looks good otherwise), I'm not too worried, once he's fully back in the swing of things he will be fine in the dot. You are jumping the gun on Horvat with the bolded statement, I would say his defensive skill & forechecking ability are better than some other players on the roster than just Sestito, but we need to see what he can do in the NHL before determining what he can & can't do at the NHL level, its only logical really, make judgments on what you have seen, not what you have yet to see. If there was nothing to be said for a difference in different leagues as far as style of game goes, then I guess Evander Kane should have had more than 2 points in 12 games when he was in the KHL during the last lockout, or Justin Schultz should have won the Calder once the NHL season started after dominating the AHL. And I never said anything about the quality of linemates, I don't know where you got that from, its about playing style, you have heard in the past from many guys, the AHL is alot more scrambly, alot less structured, Horvat plays a structured, cerebral game, with NHL qualities too it (like his forechecking ability & abliity down low, as I mentioned) which would translate better to the NHL than the AHL. The reports seem to suggest he has played well, but like I said we should just wait and see what he can do when he's back up with the big club before judging his NHL game. Edited November 1, 2014 by Smashian Kassian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiboynux4lifee******* Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 (edited) ive watched 3 games out of 4. Here my take on Horvat, I feel he is a structured player as stated above. He had a chance to score tonight and I don't know how it missed. No replay either the feed was choppy lol. In short he has had chances so thats good, maybe confidence factor in play. Also the coach doesn't play him in offensive situations. For instance, on a powerplay guys like griener,archibald,jeffery,etc will get the first min and half and horvat will get like 30 seconds to play on a pp. In the over-time loss today coach didn't play horvat first 3 minutes nor on the 4-3 pk kill. So what does this mean? Perhaps the coach sees horvat is ready for the nhl compared to the rest. Positives - gets in good scoring places on the ice. - has hockey iq unlike SOME players currently on the canucks - defensively aware - can play a cycle game Negatives - lacks offensive finish Not being homer that's the only negative i truly see with him. His skating is decent enough; as he is not a slow player for his size and that's a plus. Its going to up to Willie to get the most from his offensive side because in the OHL he proved he can score. Edited November 1, 2014 by desiboynux4lifee******* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Your taking my comment about the Mem cup and making way too big a deal of it. It was really a minor comment, had nothing to do with my response to you. FWIW he was also pretty good in the pre-season, against men. So there you go. The point was, faceoffs have always been a strong point of his game even in NHL pre-season hockey, and he's coming off injury where he will need time to get his timing back, if one of his biggest strengths is his only issue right now (and he looks good otherwise), I'm not too worried, once he's fully back in the swing of things he will be fine in the dot. You are jumping the gun on Horvat with the bolded statement, I would say his defensive skill & forechecking ability are better than some other players on the roster than just Sestito, but we need to see what he can do in the NHL before determining what he can & can't do at the NHL level, its only logical really, make judgments on what you have seen, not what you have yet to see. If there was nothing to be said for a difference in different leagues as far as style of game goes, then I guess Evander Kane should have had more than 2 points in 12 games when he was in the KHL during the last lockout, or Justin Schultz should have won the Calder once the NHL season started after dominating the AHL. And I never said anything about the quality of linemates, I don't know where you got that from, its about playing style, you have heard in the past from many guys, the AHL is alot more scrambly, alot less structured, Horvat plays a structured, cerebral game, with NHL qualities too it (like his forechecking ability & abliity down low, as I mentioned) which would translate better to the NHL than the AHL. The reports seem to suggest he has played well, but like I said we should just wait and see what he can do when he's back up with the big club before judging his NHL game. No he looked good against Calgary and Edmonton - the former being last season's worst team in the NHL and the latter having only 1 NHL calibre center in RNH. Against a decent team like ARI, he was 40%. If his biggest strength in junior is not a strength at the pro level, it's concerning because that's his best asset that gives him the best chance to make this team. If Bo can be above 50%, he has a great chance of sticking. However if he doesn't, we already have a shutdown center in Richardson who is at least at this point still better than Bo in that position. Matthias brings size and speed that Horvat doesn't, and Vey brings offense that we badly need from the bottom 6 and the PP. At least among centers, Bo doesn't have a job. If we're talking sitting Hansen or Dorsett out, then perhaps, but I really like what Dorsett adds to our team as a tenacious forechecker along with Hansen on the 4th line. And it's not like they are defensive sieves. The point is, everyone has a defining characteristic that distinguish themselves and carves out a niche. So, Bo's being positionally sound and solid defensively just isn't enough to earn him a roster spot - to make the NHL, that's almost a given. Being slightly better in this regard is easily overlooked by other factors, such as offense, size, speed, physicality, faceoffs, etc. He needs something - anything - to stick out from the rest, distinguish himself on this team and carve out the need to keep him here. Bo doesn't have blinding speed, offensive touch, overwhelming size like a power forward, or be good enough defensively to be called a specialist at this point in his career. So he needs something to make a name for himself, and that's his faceoff prowess IMO. Obviously faceoffs isn't the only way Bo can make the team - for example, he could start producing. He just needs to show he can bring something different to this team that is valuable that makes the team want to keep him around. And I mentioned the linemate quality because you were responding to my claim that linemate quality is a garbage excuse for a young player not playing well, and you responded to that by saying there is quality difference between the AHL and NHL, to which I was saying that even if there is, good players still look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BananaMash Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Uhmmm...half way through the second period and Bing. is leading Utica 3-0, Utica with lot's of -1's and -2's on the team. Bo has 0's across the board... celebrate! Still nothing to celebrate imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zfetch Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Does anyone know when Horvat will suit up for us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 (edited) Does anyone know when Horvat will suit up for us? Some time next week would be my guess unless we are on a winning streak. I doubt the coach would want to mess with a winning lineup. Edit: just checked the Canucks schedule and it looks pretty brutal next week. Starting today @EDM, back home tomorrow vs NSH, @COL on Tuesday (3rd game in 3 different cities in 4 nights). Then the Cali trip starts @SJS on Thursday, and @LAK Saturday and @ANA Sunday (3rd game in 3 different cities in 4 nights again). A total of 6 games in 9 nights, all in different cities. Yikes. Horvat's 1st NHL game might be against SJS or LAK or ANA. Talk about being thrown into the fire.. Edited November 1, 2014 by Dasein 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeefGormley Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 (edited) Some time next week would be my guess unless we are on a winning streak. I doubt the coach would want to mess with a winning lineup. Edit: just checked the Canucks schedule and it looks pretty brutal next week.Starting today @EDM, back home tomorrow vs NSH, @COL on Tuesday (3rd game in 3 different cities in 4 nights). Then the Cali trip starts @SJS on Thursday, and @LAK Saturday and @ANA Sunday (3rd game in 3 different cities in 4 nights again). A total of 6 games in 9 nights, all in different cities. Yikes. Horvat's 1st NHL game might be against SJS or LAK or ANA. Talk about being thrown into the fire.. When I looked at these games on the schedule, they didn't seem frightening at first. But after you explained it and elaborated, it's scary af. Here's my intake on this. Horvat as many of you have mentioned has no points, but getting lots of opportunities to score. I've watched him play in Utica and he really does look faster than he was in training camp. A few negatives are that his faceoff stats don't look superb and his offensive finishing skills as well as his consistency seemed to lack(sometimes bobbles the puck on a few scoring chances etc) during his tenure. When someone goes through injury, we might expect these kinds of things, especially our rookies and prospects. He's been, well, under the bus lately and we need to either send him to junior, or get his 9 games ASAP. I want Horvat playing as a lot games. If he's called up to our NHL team, whats the point? Would WD want to switch our winning line up? Most likely not, but with the suspension of Burrows, that could be possible that Horvat will be called up since Sestito isn't much of an improvement(other than physicality which we will need in the California games). So he would then get scratched, (gets lesser games played) which might also stunt his growing. I say give him a few games and if he isn't doing much, throw him in the OHL and let him develop there. Might point is, he needs to play a lot, get improving, work on his bad habits, etc. If he's getting few games here and there, that will be a waste and could hinder his develop since he won't be getting anywhere. And I really don't want that to happen to our arguably best prospect (not named Virtanen) IMO. Edited November 1, 2014 by BeefGormley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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