Plum Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) I think some will be coming to the conclusions that he is a defensive centre after his games with the Canucks with some overreacting. He is a bit raw offensively IMO but he'll be playing like a veteran defensively. Edited November 4, 2014 by Plum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 People saying he shouldn't make the team just for winning faceoffs, but I beg to differ. I think he should make the team if he dominates in the dot. It's something our team is bad in and desperately needs a face off expert. Other teams have a face off specialist on there team for that reason alone. It's not like he's bad in other areas, if I were him I'd focus on that role cuz it's something the canucks need I disagree, he can't make it one one specialty alone, even if we are weak in that area. It's like a football team keeping a center in their starting lineup just because he's great at snapping the ball. If he can't then keep the defence from breaking through and sacking the QB every time, then he's not much use. We'll have to see how he does with NHL quality linemates over the next few games. He may still get sent back to junior if he can't contribute in a number of ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) Saying that he's gonna underwhelm in the NHL based on his stretch in the AHL is not an assumption, it's being logical. Also, saying that his face off percentage is not gonna be as good in the NHL as it was in the OHL isn't only logical but definitive too. Frankly, saying the contrary is being hopeful and deluded. Unless, of course, you suppose that he's all of a sudden gonna improve tenfold against the Cali teams... But of course he didn't say the contrary, at least not in that post. All he noted was that basing how he'll perform overall in the NHL solely on his offensive production in the AHL is a large assumption to make, and he's right. If he's contributing in other areas, as he has been in the AHL, then it'll give him good chance to find his footing offensively as well. Edited November 4, 2014 by elvis15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrible.dee Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I just hope we don't toy with him like Buffalo did with Grigorenko. For me there is only 2 options 1) He stays with the Canucks the whole season, no WJC (no loan). 2) He stays for 9 or less games then London and WJC for the rest of the season. I don't want the third option, where people suggested that he sticks around until WJC camp, by behing in and out of the line-up and a decision of wheter he stays or not is made only after WJC. In theory it might sound good from a hockey experience perspective, but mentally/confidence wise, that is not good for his development. I would hope that Trev/Benn/WD have already made it clear to him what the plan is, I expect he goes back to junior after 9, barring a miracle, and would expect he's been told that. I don't think they'll be "Grigo'ing" anyone. After 9 in the big's he'll have a better grasp on what he needs to be effective at this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrible.dee Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I hope everyone isn't building him up just to fall. I'm not expecting much for his debut game, solid defence and solid face offs and I'd be happy for his first game. Yeah, that is about my level of expectation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 People saying he shouldn't make the team just for winning faceoffs, but I beg to differ. I think he should make the team if he dominates in the dot. It's something our team is bad in and desperately needs a face off expert. Other teams have a face off specialist on there team for that reason alone. It's not like he's bad in other areas, if I were him I'd focus on that role cuz it's something the canucks need He wasnt dominating the dot in the AHL so dont hold your breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I hope everyone isn't building him up just to fall. I'm not expecting much for his debut game, solid defence and solid face offs and I'd be happy for his first game. Thats all you can ask for. He needs to go back to junior after the 9 games and then play in Utica for half a season next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedman Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) Don't know if everyone here have seen this, or posted it, but Travis Green talks about Horvat's play in the AHL, and more. Also interviews with Markstrom and Shinkaruk. starts 5:52 into the clip Edited November 4, 2014 by Hedman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timberz21 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Points matter though. Like, a lot. Coming out of that Utica stretch with exactly ZERO points didn't just prove that he's not ready for the NHL, it proved that he's probably below other guys in the pecking order. Let's say he proves to be defensively sound and puts up zero points in the NHL too. Would you consider him a liability? I certainly would. He'd be an offensive liability in a team that is currently getting production from all 4 lines and needs all the scoring it can get. I agree that it's exciting to see prospects debut in the NHL but Horvat needs to go through the motions too. He hasn't shown anything to prove he's even remotely ready to regularly feature in the NHL. And all this is said without mentioning the fact that his biggest asset, face-offs, will undoubtedly decrease due to facing much higher competition in the NHL. Shawn Matthias has 2 assist in 12 games, if Bo can match him defensively, why would he be more of an offensive liability than him?? We know Bo will likely just get better offensively, while Matthias that's pretty much it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standing_Tall#37 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I for one am happy that they're starting this kids development the right way, I don't expect much out of him. I think he'll have growing pains and won't be dominate. However the more experience he gets, he'll be good. By 22he should be a decent NHLer and by 24 he'll be a top 6 maybe even top 3. Not like these kids they try to bring in at 23 or 24 and then wonder why they bust. When was the last time we had a rook that we drafted in the lineup before age 20? The Sedins??? Kesler maybe? We've had some of the worst development in the nhl for 10+ years and yet some people still believe that young guys should develop in the ahl and jrs . News flash, great players become great by playing against top talent asap. You get worse by being dominant against shitty players. This is a new leaf for this organisation and hopefully Bo succeeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 It'd be nice if Bo could get a point (a goal would be best) early on to get that load off his shoulder so he can play his game and shake away the nerves. Hoping the young man has a good showing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbyte Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) Points matter though. Like, a lot. Coming out of that Utica stretch with exactly ZERO points didn't just prove that he's not ready for the NHL, it proved that he's probably below other guys in the pecking order. Let's say he proves to be defensively sound and puts up zero points in the NHL too. Would you consider him a liability? I certainly would. He'd be an offensive liability in a team that is currently getting production from all 4 lines and needs all the scoring it can get. I agree that it's exciting to see prospects debut in the NHL but Horvat needs to go through the motions too. He hasn't shown anything to prove he's even remotely ready to regularly feature in the NHL. And all this is said without mentioning the fact that his biggest asset, face-offs, will undoubtedly decrease due to facing much higher competition in the NHL. I would say that saying no points in your first 5 pro games is proof you're not ready is proof that you really have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. For the record only 4 forwards had more than 2 points over that timespan and 3 of them had only 1. I guess we got 8 guys that are pretty much useless at the NHL level in our line-up already. Edited November 4, 2014 by Dogbyte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Saying that he's gonna underwhelm in the NHL based on his stretch in the AHL is not an assumption, it's being logical. Also, saying that his face off percentage is not gonna be as good in the NHL as it was in the OHL isn't only logical but definitive too. Frankly, saying the contrary is being hopeful and deluded. Unless, of course, you suppose that he's all of a sudden gonna improve tenfold against the Cali teams... I never said anything of the sort. The fact is, until we see him play a few NHL games with NHL structure, NHL line mates, NHL coaching etc we don't actually know what he can do at the NHL level. Assumptions. He might show he's not ready and be sent back to Jr. or he might surprise everyone and be better than projected or what his stint in the AHL might have suggested. I would caution anyone from judging his AHL faceoff prowess (or lack thereof) on whether it translates to the NHL as well. He's coming off a shoulder injury that's bound to affect his ability to win draws. Healing from that and working with/against NHL players coaches and the likelihood of him naturally improving from his current starting point is likely to improve that. Greene did specifically mention how much he progressed in one week in the AHL and coming off an injury. Just saying. Regardless, we wait for 6pm. We'll see what he can/can't do soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRAZY_4_NAZZY Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Bo just needs to play a simple and good defensively smart game. Thats all I want to see from him tonight. Gain the coaches' trust and work your way up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrible.dee Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I never said anything of the sort. The fact is, until we see him play a few NHL games with NHL structure, NHL line mates, NHL coaching etc we don't actually know what he can do at the NHL level. Assumptions. He might show he's not ready and be sent back to Jr. or he might surprise everyone and be better than projected or what his stint in the AHL might have suggested. I would caution anyone from judging his AHL faceoff prowess (or lack thereof) on whether it translates to the NHL as well. He's coming off a shoulder injury that's bound to affect his ability to win draws. Healing from that and working with/against NHL players coaches and the likelihood of him naturally improving from his current starting point is likely to improve that. Greene did specifically mention how much he progressed in one week in the AHL and coming off an injury. Just saying. Regardless, we wait for 6pm. We'll see what he can/can't do soon enough. I've reads nothing that says he played POORLY in the "A" just that he didn't score, which isn't really what I expect from him anyway. I expect a very conservative game from him tonight, the best thing he can do is play his usually quality "D" facilitate a few transitions through the neutral zone, and win FO's. If he manages to be effective in those areas, I would consider it a great start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Someone scoffed at me a month ago for suggesting no one would have to be traded or even sit for Bo to get a crack at it. I said someone who was trying to maintain a spot would get injured if not a freak injury and they asked who. Sestito is the late answer. Bo's shoulder has no doubt held him back a little to a lot in the AHL maybe even effecting his shot besides the FO issues. I hope he isn't hiding anything to get his shot at a lineup spot. 4-0 Canucks, Bo with his first ever after flattening Barrie in the slot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I've reads nothing that says he played POORLY in the "A" just that he didn't score, which isn't really what I expect from him anyway. I expect a very conservative game from him tonight, the best thing he can do is play his usually quality "D" facilitate a few transitions through the neutral zone, and win FO's. If he manages to be effective in those areas, I would consider it a great start. Yup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Matthias would be in the press box IMO. Sedin, Sedin, Vrbata Burrows, Bonino, Vey/Kassian Higgins, Richardson, Vey/Kassian Dorsett, Horvat, Hansen Now THAT is quality depth on all four lines IMO. Yeah he finally showed up to play last night. More of that and Horvat may be sent back to London. But if that was just a flash that's only going to show up every 5-10 games... he'll soon be replacing Sestito's spot IMO. The 4th line still doesn't have enough offence to me, I think Horvat can do better beside Kassian and Richardson who bring grit, offence and defence. Can't really see Higgins getting off Bonino's line, they're doing well together. Vey is playing well on the 4th line being sheltered. When Horvat comes back I see the line-up as: Higgins - Bonino - Burrows/Kassian Richardson - Horvat - Kassian/Burrows Dorsett - Vey - Hansen Balanced line-up, 3rd line can play hard minutes, 4th line (3B) can play the offensive minutes in the bottom 6, they can be our 2nd/3rd best offensive line IMO. Looks like I win this round Plum I'm actually almost more interested to see what Vey can do with this opportunity than watching Horvat have a solid but likely quiet first game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks1219 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Congrats to Bo Horvat on making his NHL debut tonight! I've wanted to share these videos for a while (though I'm sure some of you have already seen them) and thought his NHL debut would be a good time to share it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0d7fqBMOJs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwobsSFEHYc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgqLK9e8M54 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyhee Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I've reads nothing that says he played POORLY in the "A" just that he didn't score, which isn't really what I expect from him anyway. I expect a very conservative game from him tonight, the best thing he can do is play his usually quality "D" facilitate a few transitions through the neutral zone, and win FO's. If he manages to be effective in those areas, I would consider it a great start. I may be among the least optimistic about his game tonight, though like pretty much everyone I am optimistic for the future. He's been quoted as saying he didn't sleep well last night. He's about to play at altitude. He's yet to show he can score or win faceoffs at the NHL level. I'd consider it an acceptable initiation if he works hard throughout the game, plays a sound defensive game and wins 40% of his faceoffs. Anything more would be a bonus. The 40% for faceoffs is what Vey has averaged the first 12 games this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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