Olli Juolevi | #48 | D

[ilduce39]

1 hour ago, Jester13 said:

Isn't it possible to be in support of a prospect while having some concerns about their development? 

Of course not.  

 

The problem is, Juolevi has literally ticked every box this year: he’s played well at the U20s on the small ice, he’s having a great rookie professional year overseas, he’s gotten bigger, he’s maintained his speed and he’s showing good offensive ability. 

 

Literally the only “concern” aside from him getting a 2 day rest after the WJC is that he (apparently) should be in the NHL as a 19 year old.  

 

Which is a really dumb concern.  

 

Everything else Tkachuk, Sergachev or McAvoy-related is a Benning criticism and has literally nothing to do with Juolevi or his development curve.

[73 Percent]

4 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

Way better?   That's pretty dramatic to say way better as apart from McAvoy all those others are only arguably better.  Saying way better is being very pessimistic.

 

McAvoy - Ya he's looking like the cream of the crop of the draft

Sergachev - Sure he's playing in the NHL and putting up points but in an incredibly sheltered role on an offensive Juggernaught.  70% o zone starts and has been a healthy scratch a few times

Bean - Is he the one that Juolevi isn't better than?

Chychrun - Just because your playing in the NHL sooner doesn't mean you'll be the better player...See Horvat vs Nichuskin

Fabbro - Why do you think that he is projecting to be WAY better?

 

I really find it hard to understand your viewpoint if you watched the WJC's at all.  Juolevi showed why he was drafted where he was and apart from a few hiccups is still on pace to be the defender he was drafted to be.

Forget it man. Neither of us are going to change his mind.

 

Apparently 27 pts as a rookie D in 49 games isn't that much better than an 7th dman in the finish elite. 

 

Smh. Get real man this is getting pathetic.

[R.Dahlin26]

16 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Yourarguments are baseless and proven wrong every page you post on.

 

Comparable production in his D+1 year with less minutes, pp time and less offense in his forwards plus a record setting pace in his u-20 rookie year in the finnish leagues is not rocky development 

 

You just want instant gratification 

Looking like a disaster in training camp is rocky development IMO. He didn't improve his numbers from his draft season to his D+1 season that to me is stagnation.

 

Actaully I have mostly posted my opininons on his recent scratches/limited minutes, and given my thoughts about what I expect out of him. So I can't see how I'm being proven wrong.

 

People really need to stop saying this record breaking u-20 pace lol. First off he's not even at the top of the list and secondly the list is compiled of nobody's either undrafted or mid round picks other than 2-4 players.

 

Look at your posts in the beginnning of this thread, in 1.5 years your opininon might have changed mine hasn't. Deal with it.

Edited February 3, 2018 by R.Dahlin26

[Warhippy]

2 minutes ago, R.Dahlin26 said:

Looking like a disaster in training camp is rocky development IMO. He didn't improve his numbers from his draft season to his D+1 season that to me is stagnation.

 

Actaully I have mostly posted my opininons on his recent scratches/limited minutes, and given my thoughts about what I expect out of him. So I can't see how I'm being proven wrong.

 

People really need to stop saying this record breaking u-20 pace lol. First off he's not even at the top of the list and secondly the list is compiled of nobody's either undrafted or mid round picks other than 2-4 players.

 

Look at your post in the beginnning of this thread, in 1.5 years your opininon might have changed mine hasn't. Deal with it.

There we go.

 

Definitive proof nothing about Juolevi will make you happy. 

 

Ok guys we can stop engaging now

[rekker]

Yip. So far all has gone well this year but the last three games in Finland and a crap pre-season. Equals bust?

[R.Dahlin26]

5 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

There we go.

 

Definitive proof nothing about Juolevi will make you happy. 

 

Ok guys we can stop engaging now

It was a questionable pick at the time and it still is to me. Nothing Juolevi has done has really changed that and the players that I wanted are ripping it up in the NHL and looking like future stars so that doesn't help.

 

If Juolevi makes the team out of training camp due to his play that will make me happy. Also, maybe not being the 7th d-man in the finnish league would help me feel better. 

 

Stop crying.

Edited February 3, 2018 by R.Dahlin26

[Ihatetomatoes]

19 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

Forget it man. Neither of us are going to change his mind.

 

Apparently 27 pts as a rookie D in 49 games isn't that much better than an 7th dman in the finish elite. 

 

Smh. Get real man this is getting pathetic.

This just shows you're only looking at the negative.  He's played a couple games as the 7th D after coming back from the WJC's, now he's labelled as a 7th D man.

 

Sergachev's season has been quite good, there's no denying that and is looking like a better pick right now but I'd say it's still arguable as after a hot start of 17pts in 25games he's put up 10 in the last 24 and only 3 points since the end of December.  Also Sergachev has always been known to be an elite level offensive defenseman, the question has been whether or not he can think the game well enough to be a top pairing defenseman. He still hasn't answered that question as like I pointed out he's been massively sheltered having 70% of his starts in the O zone.  So it's not as laughable and pathetic as you might think for me to say that it is still arguable who will be the better defenseman in the long run.  IMO both guys will end up being top 4 guys but it will be very arguable who is the better player once they are both in their prime.

 

What about the other guys you say are WAY better than Juolevi at this point? I'm curious why you think so.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Ihatetomatoes

[Rob_Zepp]

4 hours ago, R.Dahlin26 said:

Don't mistake patience with expectation.

 

I have showed patience, it's been almost 2 years. That should be it for top 5 picks, if they aren't impact players by then they should at least be in the NHL making strides towards becoming that.

 

That last point is arguable but we'll see how that "great season" translates to him looking in training camp.

Are you premature about everything?

[Warhippy]

28 minutes ago, R.Dahlin26 said:

It was a questionable pick at the time and it still is to me. Nothing Juolevi has done has really changed that and the players that I wanted are ripping it up in the NHL and looking like future stars so that doesn't help.

 

If Juolevi makes the team out of training camp due to his play that will make me happy. Also, maybe not being the 7th d-man in the finnish league would help me feel better. 

 

Stop crying.

Lol.

 

Maybe grab a tissue and take your own advice.

 

6+ posts per page about "omg guys hez zo baaaad" over the last week.

[Time Lord]

1 hour ago, 73 Percent said:

I just don't really think when you get the 5th overall you have your eyes set on an Ellis type player.

Just curious, how good do you think Ellis is?

[R.Dahlin26]

Just now, Warhippy said:

Lol.

 

Maybe grab a tissue and take your own advice.

 

6+ posts per page about "omg guys hez zo baaaad" over the last week.

That's not crying that is called criticising, which some of you childishly get triggred by 

 

You on the other hand rush into this thread every time I post whinging about something.

 

 

[Warhippy]

4 minutes ago, R.Dahlin26 said:

That's not crying that is called criticising, which some of you childishly get triggred by 

 

You on the other hand rush into this thread every time I post whinging about something.

 

 

Uh huh.  

 

Need a hug?

[73 Percent]

2 minutes ago, Time Lord said:

Just curious, how good do you think Ellis is?

I think Ellis was an amazing JR player. I got to see him weekly as I was a spitfire ticket holder at the time he was awarded chl player of the year. 

 

His size prevented him from playing his game in the nhl.  

 

I thought Ellis could be vintage Mike green. He's turned out to be a 3-4 on a very good team with a good shot to be a lower end Pp defenseman.

[Time Lord]

1 minute ago, 73 Percent said:

I think Ellis was an amazing JR player. I got to see him weekly as I was a spitfire ticket holder at the time he was awarded chl player of the year. 

 

His size prevented him from playing his game in the nhl.  

 

I thought Ellis could be vintage Mike green. He's turned out to be a 3-4 on a very good team with a good shot to be a lower end Pp defenseman.

Really? Ellis's production last season and in the playoffs was amazing. And if you watched Nashville play, he was on their top pairing with Josi and not just used as an offensive dman. He looked like an elite #1 dman in every way in the playoffs. Just because Josi and Subban are better doesn't mean he's a #3 dman, that's just his role on a stacked team. After last season, I would find it very hard to name 30 dmen in the league better than Ellis.

 

If Juolevi turns out that well, I would be really impressed. But I don't think they play a similar style anyways.

[Guile]

2 hours ago, canuckledraggin said:

I woke up a bit early this morning and I was able to catch the game against Karpat. TPS won 2-1 in a shootout. OJ took a regular shift and I didn't see any long stretches where he wasn't on the ice, but I'm pretty sure they must have been playing 7 D again, because I saw him lining up on both sides of the ice. I hadn't seen him play RD before but he looked calm and steady like he always does.

 

His skating is silky smooth and he makes it look very easy, he's not a burner and that straight line speed is something he still needs to work on. He is a stay at home guy in the D-zone and when the play comes to his side he makes a good read, gets body position and then makes a smart poke check. He is very active with his stick. When he has the puck on his stick with any amount of time he is looking up ice.  In the O-zone he made a few good shots on net that handcuffed the goalie and caught him off guard. He is very good at finding the open man and made some heads up passes that lead to scoring chances.

 

In short he played like Olli Juolevi. A smart, cerebral defense first D-man, who is dangerous with the puck on his stick. I saw no cause for concern, worry and certainly not disappointment. He only missed 2 games after the World Juniors, but it sounds like he could have sat out more. How many games did Gadjovich miss again? And he didn't even have to travel back and forth overseas.

This is a good post. It tells me about Olli's current weaknesses (bolded) and strengths (italicized). I thought perhaps others may be interested in seeing it as well, so I'll quote it here, just in case it was missed by the page and a half of other "discussion".

[Jester13]

1 hour ago, ilduce39 said:

Of course not.  

 

The problem is, Juolevi has literally ticked every box this year: he’s played well at the U20s on the small ice, he’s having a great rookie professional year overseas, he’s gotten bigger, he’s maintained his speed and he’s showing good offensive ability. 

 

Literally the only “concern” aside from him getting a 2 day rest after the WJC is that he (apparently) should be in the NHL as a 19 year old.  

 

Which is a really dumb concern.  

 

Everything else Tkachuk, Sergachev or McAvoy-related is a Benning criticism and has literally nothing to do with Juolevi or his development curve.

But wasn't the report that the coaches felt like he needed a physical (I. E. Back from the wjc) and mental rest? 

 

My personal concern for OJ has nothing to do with his physical or hockey ability (his IQ is top-notch) but rather his mental perspective, and I think it's a fair concern. 

 

It's great to hear outright recently that he is finding games tough now and that he's welcoming it, because he has often in the past made it seem like he's too good for the competition - even tho he hasn't been proving it and outperforming his peers in the leagues he's played in (he's been good, but not too good).

 

Imo he needs tough competition and a good dose of some humble pie. My hope is that he squashes my concern after being a healthy scratch, especially considering how young he still is with plenty of time to grow his mental game.

[The Great Canucks]

5 hours ago, R.Dahlin26 said:

IMO, his development has not gone as planned or expected at least it shouldn't when you're picking in the top 5. They shouldn't take more than 1-2 years and should be impact players.

Why? Because you said so?

 

There actually is no rule here no matter how much you want to tell yourself otherwise.

[R.Dahlin26]

20 minutes ago, The Great Canucks said:

Why? Because you said so?

 

There actually is no rule here no matter how much you want to tell yourself otherwise.

Yes for me Top 5 picks shouldn't take more than 2 years to be regular NHL'ers, contributing. At least future impact players that's for sure. Otherwise you most likely made the wrong choice and missed evaluated. This is my opinion.

 

Like for someone like Jack Rathbone I would expect 3-5 years of development

 

But for Juolevi, who was a top 5 pick, the longer he takes the more concerning it gets for me and i'm sure for others. I'm expecting big things from him this upcoming training camp and want him to make the team so he can actually start taking steps at the NHL level towards being a top 4 d-man. This recent healthy scratching and playing as the 7th d man doesn't really inspire any confidence but we have to see how he responds to this adversity.

 

Edited February 3, 2018 by R.Dahlin26

[73 Percent]

49 minutes ago, Time Lord said:

Really? Ellis's production last season and in the playoffs was amazing. And if you watched Nashville play, he was on their top pairing with Josi and not just used as an offensive dman. He looked like an elite #1 dman in every way in the playoffs. Just because Josi and Subban are better doesn't mean he's a #3 dman, that's just his role on a stacked team. After last season, I would find it very hard to name 30 dmen in the league better than Ellis.

 

If Juolevi turns out that well, I would be really impressed. But I don't think they play a similar style anyways.

Yeah not a similar style at all. Ellis had a fantastic playoff though. But 1 playoff doesn't dictate an entire career. Ville leino  had a good playoff one year. So did halak. 

[canuckledraggin]

35 minutes ago, Guile said:

This is a good post. It tells me about Olli's current weaknesses (bolded) and strengths (italicized). I thought perhaps others may be interested in seeing it as well, so I'll quote it here, just in case it was missed by the page and a half of other "discussion".

Yeah I thought it might be a good topic of discussion to actually critique is play and try to steer the conversation that way but the bickering continues to dominate.

 

I'm actually a little confused by the complete overreaction to his "healthy scratch". Are people upset at Juolevi or his coach? I know for a fact that they're not watching him play, because I don't see anything to be worried about.