stawns Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 53 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: I answered the question, you didn't give a response. Why don't you try and respond it ain't that hard I'm sure. I'm sure you can come up with several reasons why a 20 year old D man coming off major knee surgery who was playing in the minors will all of a sudden become a top pairing D man. You didn't answer, how did he struggle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 On 3/21/2019 at 10:27 AM, D-Money said: No offense, but this argument is beyond ridiculous. For one, with the projected raise in the salary cap, we currently have $30 million of cap space for next year. There are a few RFAs to re-up, but beyond Boeser and Hutton, no one of consequence. The following season we have Markstrom, Gaudette, and Virtanen. Marky will get a solid raise if he continues to play strong next season. The other 2 won't be expensive. The following season we have the big 2 - Pettersson and Hughes. But even if cap is getting tight - so what? Having so much top talent that you can't afford it isn't a bad thing. You can simply cut one or two of the talented players loose for pick/prospect(s), and continue to stock the organization with talent. Not picking Tkachuk was a huge mistake, plain and simple. But picking Pettersson the following year was an even bigger win, so it's not worth crying over...but we also don't have to make up crap to make ourselves feel better about it. I don't want Kesler type A-hole's on the team and Tchapuck is even worse of an A-hole...plain and simple... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: I answered the question, you didn't give a response. Why don't you try and respond it ain't that hard I'm sure. I'm sure you can come up with several reasons why a 20 year old D man coming off major knee surgery who was playing in the minors will all of a sudden become a top pairing D man. Whoever said that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedintwinpowersactivate Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 What would Juolevi’s trade value be? This is the most interesting aspect to me. He was the highest ranked defenseman in the 2016 draft. Obviously a lot of teams scouted him heavily and may still think they have a high end player there. Could we get a high end top six forward prospect back from a team that was in love with Ollie going back to the draft? If we resign Edler and keep Hutton we have Edler, Hughes and Hutton on the left side. Just getting Juolevi ice time to prove himself maybe a challenge. But if his trade value is not as high as Benning would like then we would have no choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, stawns said: You didn't answer, how did he struggle? I never said he was struggling. He had major knee surgery and is already 20 with zero NHL experience. The chances of him becoming a top pairing D man are very small. I can see him being a #3 or #4 but as I already mentioned we have Hutton and Stecher to play those roles. If Benning wants to trade Hutton then that would open up space for Juolevi. My preference is to keep Hutton but I am not the GM so we will see what Benning does with the future logjam at left D. Edited March 22, 2019 by Elias Pettersson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorvatToBaertschi Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said: I never said he was struggling. He had major knee surgery and is already 20 with zero NHL experience. The chances of him becoming a top pairing D man are very small. I can see him being a #3 or #4 bit as I already mentioned we have Hutton and Stecher to play those roles. If Benning wants to trade Hutton then that would open up space for Juolevi. My preference is to keep Hutton but I am not tru GM so we will see what Benning does with the future logjam at left D. I remember reading that both his injuries were of the variety that healed very well at his age, and would be completely healed up with little chance of re-injuring. Could be wrong though but I wouldn’t worry too much about a top 5 pick that has played really well in now 2 men’s leagues, before the age of 20 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckleHorse Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Olé Joe lovey is gonna make em eat crow for doubting him he has the brain that makes him a notch better than most. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master 112 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, stawns said: You don't think a 20 year old dman is done developing? You don't say. Aside from injuries, where is he struggling? It was well established, even before his injury this year, that he has not been following his expected developmental course. It's unfortunate but is intelligent consensus. I never said his whole game is trash (I do, as said, expect him to play in the show); I just don't think he's going to be a game breaker or as good as one might have anticipated on his draft day. While there are up-sides to his game, are they good enough strengths to automate him to a higher tier? His defensive game absolutely appears to be something he's struggling with. He's weak on the boards and positionally not adapted to the professional game yet. He needs to learn how to win battles and understand how plays develop more intuitively. What about his game makes you think he'll become more than a 2nd pairing defenceman as I predicted in the post you disagree with? Edited March 22, 2019 by 112 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said: I remember reading that both his injuries were of the variety that healed very well at his age, and would be completely healed up with little chance of re-injuring. Could be wrong though but I wouldn’t worry too much about a top 5 pick that has played really well in now 2 men’s leagues, before the age of 20 I am not sure you can say a knee will never get re-injured. Don’t think any doctor would ever tell you that. But it’s not the knee injury itself it’s all the time he is missing due to the injury. Who knows if he will even be ready for camp and be 100%. We don’t know that yet. We will see. In any event he’s lost a good chunk of development time so his future of becoming a top pairing D is dwindling. Any more setbacks and that dream is over for sure. He could be a very good second pairing D however which is quite fine. I just happen to prefer Hutton in that role for various reasons. But we all have our own opinion on that. Edited March 22, 2019 by Elias Pettersson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Sedintwinpowersactivate said: What would Juolevi’s trade value be? This is the most interesting aspect to me. He was the highest ranked defenseman in the 2016 draft. Obviously a lot of teams scouted him heavily and may still think they have a high end player there. Could we get a high end top six forward prospect back from a team that was in love with Ollie going back to the draft? If we resign Edler and keep Hutton we have Edler, Hughes and Hutton on the left side. Just getting Juolevi ice time to prove himself maybe a challenge. But if his trade value is not as high as Benning would like then we would have no choice. I still think he has a high trade value, even more than Hutton because of his potential. I can see us getting back a top 6 winger in return. Which I would be fine with. If we have Edler, Hughes, Hutton, Brisebois, Sautner, Teves and Rathbone on the left D we are covered there for a long time. We could also trade Juolevi for a right handed D. That’s also a possibility. Someone who can play with Edler or Hughes. My preference is we get a top winger as we have Woo who can step up on the right side in a year or two and I am always hopeful that Tryamkin will come back next year or the year after and take another spot on the right side. Edited March 22, 2019 by Elias Pettersson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 23 hours ago, The 5th Line said: If a guys ex was was Megan Fox and he ended up marrying Amy Schumer instead, would you blame him? Bad examples - both are "meh" for different reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMexico Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 9 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said: Bad examples - both are "meh" for different reasons. Both are also attractive for different reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlastPast Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 I still think there is a good chance Olli can become a good #3 ; someone who can play in the 20-21 mins/night range and be effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 6 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: The chance of a 20 year old who was drafted in the top 5 and was most recently playing in the minors who has sustained a major knee injury becoming a top pairing D is very small. He can still develop of course but now the projection would be a 2nd pairing D man as his top end, which still isn't bad. However, Hutton and Stecher look like they can take those 2nd pairing minutes right now and both are still in their mid 20's so we are set for awhile with them. Also, we have Hughes and Woo who could possibly be a top pairing, or at the very least Hughes in the top pairing and Woo in the bottom 6. That's already 4 spots taken, plus we have a plethora of young D who could fill a bottom pairing role or sub into the top 4 in the future like Brisebois, Sautner, Rathbone and Tryamkin. Tryamkin is also someone that may be able to play top 4 minutes regularly. In addition, Edler may be signed for up to 3-4 years, so he would take up another spot. Even Luke Schenn is playing well right now so he could be signed to a multi-year contract to fill out our bottom 6 and/or add depth to the right side. So at the end of the day barring a trade there really is no room for Juloevi unless you don't re-sign Edler or you trade Hutton. Edler most likely gets re-signed and at this point I'd rather keep a guy like Hutton around who is almost fully developed and relatively injury free and plays a physical game than a Juolevi who is coming off major knee surgery and is not a physical defenceman. He could be a good chip however in a trade for a top end winger. I know some posters would rather trade Hutton but I am probably in the minority and prefer to keep Hutton as we know what we have in him now and roll the dice on a Juolevi trade to get a top 6 winger. The chances of any drafted player becoming a top d man is small, it doesn't matter how long or little they play in the minors or if they get injured. Edler has been a top pairing guy for a decade, he was a 3rd rounder, so what does that mean??? Exactly the same thing, nothing. Conjure all you want, we drafted OJ and not Tkachuk. Time is still ticking and yes OJ still has the chance to prove himself. Save your energy to complain about the guy next year if need be. Until then it's a wasted effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 39 minutes ago, RonMexico said: Both are also attractive for different reasons. If you say so. I would struggle in both camps to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMexico Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 28 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said: If you say so. I would struggle in both camps to be honest. I've revoked your man card. Please do not return to the club. The club does not accept guys who have claim to have standards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 4 hours ago, 112 said: It was well established, even before his injury this year, that he has not been following his expected developmental course. It's unfortunate but is intelligent consensus. I never said his whole game is trash (I do, as said, expect him to play in the show); I just don't think he's going to be a game breaker or as good as one might have anticipated on his draft day. While there are up-sides to his game, are they good enough strengths to automate him to a higher tier? His defensive game absolutely appears to be something he's struggling with. He's weak on the boards and positionally not adapted to the professional game yet. He needs to learn how to win battles and understand how plays develop more intuitively. What about his game makes you think he'll become more than a 2nd pairing defenceman as I predicted in the post you disagree with? Who says that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master 112 Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 39 minutes ago, stawns said: Who says that? It's the most popular opinion concerning OJ I've been hearing in the Canucks circles I frequent, and it's been so for a long time. CDC is homer central, and there are still lots of people being realists about him in this thread. He is a 5th overall pick who did not improve on his junior totals between his draft and +1 seasons and failed to crack one of the worst defensive corps in the league in his +3. He wasn't even performing particularly well in Finland. It's not controversial to say what he's shown isn't what was anticipated when Van picked him. Thinking back on OJ's last 3 years, can you really say he's developing according to plan? Are you interested in actually rebutting anything I've said, or are you happy asking 3-word questions that imply you don't like what my thoughts are without bothering to criticize? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingleThorn Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 1 minute ago, 112 said: 48 minutes ago, stawns said: It's the most popular opinion concerning OJ I've been hearing in the Canucks circles I frequent, and it's been so for a long time. Sounds like you frequent the usual click bait villains ! Care to name a few ? ( actually am interested in your sources ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, 112 said: Thinking back on OJ's last 3 years, can you really say he's developing according to plan? Are you interested in actually rebutting anything I've said, or are you happy asking 3-word questions that imply you don't like what my thoughts are without bothering to criticize? Other than the injuries, he's developed pretty much bang on, as expected. The scouting report at the draft was that he was always going to need some development time. It's only injuries that have made it seem 'longer than it should be'. He likely would have been playing here this year otherwise. As for your other assessments, he was tasked with taking on more of a defensive/sheltering and mentoring role in his D+1, hence the point totals. He ended the year on the first pair in Liiga, as a 19 year old. So actually quite well there. And despite some nagging injury/lack of off season training issues, was coming along quite nicely in Utica. Pretty soon we can just sub OJ's face on to this... Edited March 23, 2019 by aGENT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now