higgyfan Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said: I'm not sure if your calling me confused or stupid.... I am neither... Benning stated before his first training camp with us that the prospects would get a fair shot and if they beat out the Vet.'s from training camp they would get a spot or at least 9 games to prove they deserved the spot. I do not want to lose any players to waivers for no good reason but the stated philosophy should change then to; "prospects can make the team if they beat out a vet. and it makes good business/hockey sense to keep them". That would at least be the more honest and honourable approach. Benning has to get his message straight or own up to it when needed. Juolevi has very little chance this year but Boeser will make the team and someone else will probably show enough to make it but get sent down.... ...no matter how smart some people think they are.... I think Juolevi makes the team if he's in the same situation as Boes; waiver exempt and Utica eligible. Unfortunately, there are too many players that will have to go through waivers if they don't make the team right away. Don't see them putting Wiercioch on waivers just after signing him a couple of months ago. They probably wouldn't want to lose Biega either. Boes may go down to Utica for a while, so that some of the waiver eligible players get a chance to prove themselves (ala Stecher). Boucher, Chaput, Gaunce, Burmistrov, Rodin, Megna, Biega, Wiercioch and Pedan are waiver eligible. Of course not all of these players would be picked up off waivers, but some of the them might. Juolevi will likely get his 9 games and then back to Jrs (I would rather see him go to Europe). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, higgyfan said: I think Juolevi makes the team if he's in the same situation as Boes; waiver exempt and Utica eligible. Unfortunately, there are too many players that will have to go through waivers if they don't make the team right away. Don't see them putting Wiercioch on waivers just after signing him a couple of months ago. They probably wouldn't want to lose Biega either. Boes may go down to Utica for a while, so that some of the waiver eligible players get a chance to prove themselves (ala Stecher). Boucher, Chaput, Gaunce, Burmistrov, Rodin, Megna, Biega, Wiercioch and Pedan are waiver eligible. Of course not all of these players would be picked up off waivers, but some of the them might. Juolevi will likely get his 9 games and then back to Jrs (I would rather see him go to Europe). Rodin will make the team....Burmistrov will be the 13th forward and not one of those other guys would get picked up off waivers...at least to start the season... ...pretty hard for Boeser to compete for the Calder trophy in Utica....Brock is a lock.... ....also I don't think Juolevi get's his 9 games unless we make a trade or a top 4 D gets injured.....if he get's 2 points a game in preseason and doesn't get beat to bad on D. then maybe.... Edited August 16, 2017 by Rollieo Del Fuego 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, higgyfan said: I think Juolevi makes the team if he's in the same situation as Boes; waiver exempt and Utica eligible. Unfortunately, there are too many players that will have to go through waivers if they don't make the team right away. Don't see them putting Wiercioch on waivers just after signing him a couple of months ago. They probably wouldn't want to lose Biega either. Boes may go down to Utica for a while, so that some of the waiver eligible players get a chance to prove themselves (ala Stecher). Boucher, Chaput, Gaunce, Burmistrov, Rodin, Megna, Biega, Wiercioch and Pedan are waiver eligible. Of course not all of these players would be picked up off waivers, but some of the them might. Juolevi will likely get his 9 games and then back to Jrs (I would rather see him go to Europe). The way JB signed UFAs this summer, don't you get the feeling none of the young guys will make the big club out of camp/preseason no matter how well they play? I would love to see Juiolevi with Gudbranson on our third pair, but don't see it, even if the kid ears the spot. Same with Boeser. Love to see him with the Twins 5 on 5, but doubt it happens. It's just looking like ALL the youth will be back in Junior, in the AHL, or in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRAZY_4_NAZZY Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 5 minutes ago, Alflives said: The way JB signed UFAs this summer, don't you get the feeling none of the young guys will make the big club out of camp/preseason no matter how well they play? I would love to see Juiolevi with Gudbranson on our third pair, but don't see it, even if the kid ears the spot. Same with Boeser. Love to see him with the Twins 5 on 5, but doubt it happens. It's just looking like ALL the youth will be back in Junior, in the AHL, or in Europe. Unless they are spectacular or making a legitimate impact, then yeah I don't see Olli or any of the other young D making the team. Its good though, don't want them just playing for the sake of getting them into the lineup, they need to thrive and be impactful towards the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, Alflives said: The way JB signed UFAs this summer, don't you get the feeling none of the young guys will make the big club out of camp/preseason no matter how well they play? I would love to see Juiolevi with Gudbranson on our third pair, but don't see it, even if the kid ears the spot. Same with Boeser. Love to see him with the Twins 5 on 5, but doubt it happens. It's just looking like ALL the youth will be back in Junior, in the AHL, or in Europe. Baer / Bo / Boeser Granlund / Sutter / Rodin Sedins / Gagner or Erikkson Gaunce / Burmistrov or Gagner / Dorsett Burm or Erikkson ( ya I know 6M on the bench...) That is how our team should look ...maybe Goldy can break out well and do more them Erikkson or ? but I don't see any of the others actually "beating out" Boeser or Rodin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Just now, Rollieo Del Fuego said: Rodin will make the team....Burmistrov will be the 13th forward and not one of those other guys would get picked up off waivers...at least to start the season... ...pretty hard for Boeser to compete for the Calder trophy in Utica....Brock is a lock.... I did say he may go down ala Stecher. Just until they can get the backlog of players sorted. I have no doubt he will be a regular forward on the team this season. Boucher or Gaunce might get picked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 1 minute ago, higgyfan said: I did say he may go down ala Stecher. Just until they can get the backlog of players sorted. I have no doubt he will be a regular forward on the team this season. Boucher or Gaunce might get picked up. Gaunce would for sure...but he is on my team as well....all of this started with just the premise that a prospects can make the team if he earns it and I still say either change the premise or live up to it. If we lose Boucher ...so be it...MacEwen and Molino are close to ready and Goldy will get a shot before them anyway...we are good to go... Juolevi has just to much of a mountain to climb.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 11 minutes ago, Alflives said: The way JB signed UFAs this summer, don't you get the feeling none of the young guys will make the big club out of camp/preseason no matter how well they play? I would love to see Juiolevi with Gudbranson on our third pair, but don't see it, even if the kid ears the spot. Same with Boeser. Love to see him with the Twins 5 on 5, but doubt it happens. It's just looking like ALL the youth will be back in Junior, in the AHL, or in Europe. Yeah, I would think all the Jrs return to their teams. Unless he goes to Euro, I think Juolevi gets his 9 games and then back to LKs. But, it is a long season and you know how the Canucks get injured. The prospects in the AHL will get plenty of opportunity to join the team as the season goes on. Like I said earlier, Boes may go to Utica for a short while so that the waiver eligible guys can be assessed, but he definitely makes the Canucks this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 4 hours ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said: I'm not sure if your calling me confused or stupid.... I am neither... Benning stated before his first training camp with us that the prospects would get a fair shot and if they beat out the Vet.'s from training camp they would get a spot or at least 9 games to prove they deserved the spot. I do not want to lose any players to waivers for no good reason but the stated philosophy should change then to; "prospects can make the team if they beat out a vet. and it makes good business/hockey sense to keep them". That would at least be the more honest and honourable approach. Benning has to get his message straight or own up to it when needed. Juolevi has very little chance this year but Boeser will make the team and someone else will probably show enough to make it but get sent down.... ...no matter how smart some people think they are.... I'm not that concerned with what you think he meant. The reality is, as I and others have outlined it to you. Benning may not always think before he speaks but he is not stupid and is realistic enough to know that there are some roster moves which are unrealistic and can cost the club money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hd71 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I don't think there is anything left for him in Junior. If he went back there would be no challenge and as a result no growth. Complacency would set in, bad habits. I think he is ready, at the very least as a 7th d-man. whether he stays or not remains to be seen but if he doesn't then he should go to Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) 20 hours ago, alfstonker said: I'm not that concerned with what you think he meant. The reality is, as I and others have outlined it to you. Benning may not always think before he speaks but he is not stupid and is realistic enough to know that there are some roster moves which are unrealistic and can cost the club money. The reality is if you tell prospects there is a spot for them if they earn it and then do the opposite....you won't be attracting any free agent prospects from college or overseas and even the AHL free agents might shy away. The reality is Juolevi has too many good D. ahead of him this year. The reality is Boeser does not have too many good scorer's ahead of him. .....That's really the way it is.... Edited August 17, 2017 by Rollieo Del Fuego 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 13 minutes ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said: The reality is if you tell prospects there is a spot for them if they earn it and then do the opposite....you won't be attracting any free agent prospects from college or overseas and even the AHL free agents might shy away. The reality is Juolevi has too many good D. ahead of him this year. The reality is Boeser does not have too many good scorer's ahead of him. .....That's really the way it is.... The reality is that if Juolevi comes to camp and plays like he did in Prospect's Camp with his now over 200 lb frame then there are not, "too many good D ahead of him" as he is likely the most talented D man in the entire Canuck organization. If he is good enough at this very early age for a Dman, he will be given every chance. It is a nice problem to have but if he outplays those "ahead of him - to use your term" then he will get a spot and it will be well-deserved. OJ is a stud of a prospect. Not sure Canucks have had this good of a D prospect in at least 10 years - he has a higher offensive ceiling than Luc Bourdon did and is likely better defensively as well. He has long-term high end Dman written all over him. If he is good enough for NHL this year, he will play in NHL. If he is needing another year of development in eyes of the team, I would suspect he ends up in Europe over CHL just because he likely wants the higher level of competition. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said: The reality is that if Juolevi comes to camp and plays like he did in Prospect's Camp with his now over 200 lb frame then there are not, "too many good D ahead of him" as he is likely the most talented D man in the entire Canuck organization. If he is good enough at this very early age for a Dman, he will be given every chance. It is a nice problem to have but if he outplays those "ahead of him - to use your term" then he will get a spot and it will be well-deserved. OJ is a stud of a prospect. Not sure Canucks have had this good of a D prospect in at least 10 years - he has a higher offensive ceiling than Luc Bourdon did and is likely better defensively as well. He has long-term high end Dman written all over him. If he is good enough for NHL this year, he will play in NHL. If he is needing another year of development in eyes of the team, I would suspect he ends up in Europe over CHL just because he likely wants the higher level of competition. You say Olli will get a spot if he earns it. Did .Stecher get a spot last season, after he clearly earned it coming out of preseason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Just now, Alflives said: You say Olli will get a spot if he earns it. Did .Stecher get a spot last season, after he clearly earned it coming out of preseason? Stecher was a surprise to coaching staff IMHO and they thought he played preseason way above his head and would hit a wall (my guess only, I don't really know). OJ is of a different pedigree and with all due respect to Troy Stecher, is an elite prospect whereas Stecher was signed as a depth curiosity that has exceeded expectations. Also, you say "clearly earned it" - well, clearly he didn't earn it in eyes of WD. You as a fan don't get to make the final roster decisions so what you perceived and what coaches saw may have been entirely different. I agree with you that TS had a great camp and preseason (from what I could tell, didn't see any of it live of course) but so much goes into decisions and perhaps WD was looking for something else OR perhaps WD was just set on not letting a full-term college guy get in that easy. Neither of us knows. I think the decisions that WD made last year in general were "odd" at times and I don't see that having a ton of bearing on what happens this year. Further, as noted above, quite a different level of expectation for OJ than for TS - and huge kudos for TS in exceeding expectations. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekey Pete Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Alflives said: You say Olli will get a spot if he earns it. Did .Stecher get a spot last season, after he clearly earned it coming out of preseason? Stecher did in fact get his spot that he earned. Sometimes it's not so easy as to just cut someone right out of training camp. A trade might have to be made, some hard decisions regarding waivers etc. I think Troy's 71 games played last year indicate pretty clearly that management came through on their promise. Edited August 17, 2017 by The Sedge 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, The Sedge said: Stecher did in fact get his spot that he earned. Sometimes it's not so easy as to just cut someone right out of training camp. A trade might have to be made, some hard decisions regarding waivers etc. I think Troy's 71 games played last year indicate pretty clearly that management came through on their promise. Can that work with Olli? He can't get sent to the AHL. So Olli earns a spot. What does JB do? Can't cut him, like they (wrongly) did with Stecher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 1 hour ago, hd71 said: I think he is ready, at the very least as a 7th d-man. He earns and plays top 6 or he goes to Junior/Europe. There's more chance he wins the Norris next year than the Canucks sitting him in the press box as 7th D IMO. Hutton best be looking over his shoulder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Rob_Zepp said: The reality is that if Juolevi comes to camp and plays like he did in Prospect's Camp with his now over 200 lb frame then there are not, "too many good D ahead of him" as he is likely the most talented D man in the entire Canuck organization. If he is good enough at this very early age for a Dman, he will be given every chance. It is a nice problem to have but if he outplays those "ahead of him - to use your term" then he will get a spot and it will be well-deserved. OJ is a stud of a prospect. Not sure Canucks have had this good of a D prospect in at least 10 years - he has a higher offensive ceiling than Luc Bourdon did and is likely better defensively as well. He has long-term high end Dman written all over him. If he is good enough for NHL this year, he will play in NHL. If he is needing another year of development in eyes of the team, I would suspect he ends up in Europe over CHL just because he likely wants the higher level of competition. I hope your right...I have tonnes of respect for Juolevi's game but at last glance it isn't as polished as Hutton's, I can't think of anyone else he will be beating out. We need Stecher in there, we need some toughness so Guddy has to be in there...and we all agree he shouldn't be sitting on the bench as the 7th D. Plus there is Holm who I expect might be better then Wiercioch as an all around D. The only way in that I see is with a long term injury to a top 6 D. or a trade (which likely makes no sense until the trade deadline) and Edler is the only one that makes sense to trade unless we get a couple of 1st's from a team not likely to make the playoffs for Tanev at the TDL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Rob_Zepp said: Stecher was a surprise to coaching staff IMHO and they thought he played preseason way above his head and would hit a wall (my guess only, I don't really know). OJ is of a different pedigree and with all due respect to Troy Stecher, is an elite prospect whereas Stecher was signed as a depth curiosity that has exceeded expectations. Also, you say "clearly earned it" - well, clearly he didn't earn it in eyes of WD. You as a fan don't get to make the final roster decisions so what you perceived and what coaches saw may have been entirely different. I agree with you that TS had a great camp and preseason (from what I could tell, didn't see any of it live of course) but so much goes into decisions and perhaps WD was looking for something else OR perhaps WD was just set on not letting a full-term college guy get in that easy. Neither of us knows. I think the decisions that WD made last year in general were "odd" at times and I don't see that having a ton of bearing on what happens this year. Further, as noted above, quite a different level of expectation for OJ than for TS - and huge kudos for TS in exceeding expectations. I watched Stecher in College as Boeser and him were running over the opposition with speed and clever pinpoint passing....Stecher did earn a spot out of camp last year and he lived up to my expectations rather than exceeding them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rob_Zepp said: The reality is that if Juolevi comes to camp and plays like he did in Prospect's Camp with his now over 200 lb frame then there are not, "too many good D ahead of him" as he is likely the most talented D man in the entire Canuck organization. If he is good enough at this very early age for a Dman, he will be given every chance. It is a nice problem to have but if he outplays those "ahead of him - to use your term" then he will get a spot and it will be well-deserved. OJ is a stud of a prospect. Not sure Canucks have had this good of a D prospect in at least 10 years - he has a higher offensive ceiling than Luc Bourdon did and is likely better defensively as well. He has long-term high end Dman written all over him. If he is good enough for NHL this year, he will play in NHL. If he is needing another year of development in eyes of the team, I would suspect he ends up in Europe over CHL just because he likely wants the higher level of competition. With write ups like these you could sell sand in a dessert.... Hope you are right. A right sided stud to go with him next year, and we would have the building blocks for the future... me like a lot. Edited August 17, 2017 by spook007 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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