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Marshmallow test


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There's an experiment sometimes done in school where a student's patience is put to the test. In this test the teacher puts a marshmallow in front of the student, and explains to the student that they can eat this marshmallow now OR wait for the teacher to get back and get a 2nd marshmallow. As the teacher is away, the student wrestles with waiting to eat the marshmallow in hopes of a bigger prize or digging in and getting satisfaction instantly. Some students decide to eat the marshmallow right away, while others succeed in waiting, and are rewarded later. 

I found this to be a great analogy of how the Canucks are approaching and managing their team. Currently, they have a "win now" attitude, where young players (such as Jake) are being given limited ice time, draft picks are being traded away, and veterans are getting opportunities that could be given to youth (ex. Skille). All this is happening so that we can be a playoff team this year (which has been stated countless times), which is great for Jim, Willie and ownership because as long as the team continues winning, they will continue to be getting paid. However, they're treating this team like the child that eats the first marshmallow, they get rewarded now (which they very well may, if we do make the playoffs), but they ultimately will not get the bigger prize. 

Our "win now" approach will sacrifice our future. In examples such as keeping Virtanen as a fourth line, minimal minute, low-confidence player, so that we can have someone who can bruise other players, sacrificing proper development. We've seen teams that have decided to take the other approach and be successful. Teams such as Chicago, Pittsburgh, or Tampa Bay who decided that waiting and developing was the necessary approach. Sure, in the waiting time there was frustration: fans stopped attending games, players didn't want to come to their city, people were fired, and the playoffs were no longer an option. That sense of pride had to be swept aside. However, the 'wrestling with the wait' saw them attain the bigger prize. Sure, Tampa has not yet won a cup, but it will be on the horizon for several years as their team will continue to flourish. 

We're seeing other teams who are now at the ladder end of the wait, such as Toronto and Edmonton, who were a laughing stock of the NHL for several years now taking the league by storm. Their pride had to demolished in order for the hopes of the greater prize in the future. 

Canucks currently, are a team that's nibbling on the marshmallow as they wait for the 2nd one. Not fully eating it, and not fully waiting, trying to get the best of both worlds. However, in this test, even a nibble disqualifies you from obtaining the 2nd marshmallow, or the greater prize. The sense of pride is still standing in the way. Our ownership, management, and fans do not want to be the ones who sit there waiting while watching everyone else snack away. Sure, it's a difficult thing to do. It can mean the loss of money, seats not filled up, players signing other places, people losing jobs, and the cup far out of our grasp. But isn't ripping the bandaid and putting that respect that we so desperately want in the vault for a little while better than the illusion that we are still the team we were in the past? 

Let me know your thoughts

Thanks for reading. 

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1 hour ago, shattenkirk8 said:

There's an experiment sometimes done in school where a student's patience is put to the test. In this test the teacher puts a marshmallow in front of the student, and explains to the student that they can eat this marshmallow now OR wait for the teacher to get back and get a 2nd marshmallow. As the teacher is away, the student wrestles with waiting to eat the marshmallow in hopes of a bigger prize or digging in and getting satisfaction instantly. Some students decide to eat the marshmallow right away, while others succeed in waiting, and are rewarded later. 

I found this to be a great analogy of how the Canucks are approaching and managing their team. Currently, they have a "win now" attitude, where young players (such as Jake) are being given limited ice time, draft picks are being traded away, and veterans are getting opportunities that could be given to youth (ex. Skille). All this is happening so that we can be a playoff team this year (which has been stated countless times), which is great for Jim, Willie and ownership because as long as the team continues winning, they will continue to be getting paid. However, they're treating this team like the child that eats the first marshmallow, they get rewarded now (which they very well may, if we do make the playoffs), but they ultimately will not get the bigger prize. 

Our "win now" approach will sacrifice our future. In examples such as keeping Virtanen as a fourth line, minimal minute, low-confidence player, so that we can have someone who can bruise other players, sacrificing proper development. We've seen teams that have decided to take the other approach and be successful. Teams such as Chicago, Pittsburgh, or Tampa Bay who decided that waiting and developing was the necessary approach. Sure, in the waiting time there was frustration: fans stopped attending games, players didn't want to come to their city, people were fired, and the playoffs were no longer an option. That sense of pride had to be swept aside. However, the 'wrestling with the wait' saw them attain the bigger prize. Sure, Tampa has not yet won a cup, but it will be on the horizon for several years as their team will continue to flourish. 

We're seeing other teams who are now at the ladder end of the wait, such as Toronto and Edmonton, who were a laughing stock of the NHL for several years now taking the league by storm. Their pride had to demolished in order for the hopes of the greater prize in the future. 

Canucks currently, are a team that's nibbling on the marshmallow as they wait for the 2nd one. Not fully eating it, and not fully waiting, trying to get the best of both worlds. However, in this test, even a nibble disqualifies you from obtaining the 2nd marshmallow, or the greater prize. The sense of pride is still standing in the way. Our ownership, management, and fans do not want to be the ones who sit there waiting while watching everyone else snack away. Sure, it's a difficult thing to do. It can mean the loss of money, seats not filled up, players signing other places, people losing jobs, and the cup far out of our grasp. But isn't ripping the bandaid and putting that respect that we so desperately want in the vault for a little while better than the illusion that we are still the team we were in the past? 

Let me know your thoughts

Thanks for reading. 

 

Sorry I think if you watch the coach's interview the ice time is dictated by Jake's performance. So while you make it sound like policy it is not, it is governed by performance and attitude.

 

No they are not they are treating the team as they have been employed to by the owners i.e. as a business. We are not Toronto, we will vacate the arena like snow off a hot roof if we have any extended period of failure. It's ok people like you pontificating on the benefits of waiting on your second marshmallow but the reality is this club could suck $millions out of the owner's pockets with a policy like that in this City.

 

We have a decent coach and management who are trying to win but look what happened when we lost 3 in a row. All hell breaks loose and all the bedroom coaches and basement GMs start acting like they have a clue.

Some say they won't go back and others say they will just look at the highlights (I think that's what many of them do anyway) 

THIS FANBASE HASN'T THE BALLS, THE PATIENCE OR THE ATTENTION SPAN to wait for their second marshmallow and the owners don't have deep enough pockets even if they could.

 

I dispute we are nibbling at it, we are eating it because that is our only real option.

 

As I say why should the owners absorb $millions in losses when our fanbase can't be bothered to buy their seats or season tickets. It's a two way street. It is fine to talk in idealistic and marshmallow analogies but this is Vancouver, the city that turned to riots and burning just because they lost a Stanley Cup final.

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I see it the opposite way. You guys wanting kids to be handed ice time regardless of performance are the one marshmallow people. No patience. Those of us wanting the kids to be brought along slowly and earn their roster spot and ice are the two marshmallow folks. We have the patience.

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2 hours ago, shattenkirk8 said:

There's an experiment sometimes done in school where a student's patience is put to the test. In this test the teacher puts a marshmallow in front of the student, and explains to the student that they can eat this marshmallow now OR wait for the teacher to get back and get a 2nd marshmallow. As the teacher is away, the student wrestles with waiting to eat the marshmallow in hopes of a bigger prize or digging in and getting satisfaction instantly. Some students decide to eat the marshmallow right away, while others succeed in waiting, and are rewarded later. 

I found this to be a great analogy of how the Canucks are approaching and managing their team. Currently, they have a "win now" attitude, where young players (such as Jake) are being given limited ice time, draft picks are being traded away, and veterans are getting opportunities that could be given to youth (ex. Skille). All this is happening so that we can be a playoff team this year (which has been stated countless times), which is great for Jim, Willie and ownership because as long as the team continues winning, they will continue to be getting paid. However, they're treating this team like the child that eats the first marshmallow, they get rewarded now (which they very well may, if we do make the playoffs), but they ultimately will not get the bigger prize. 

Our "win now" approach will sacrifice our future. In examples such as keeping Virtanen as a fourth line, minimal minute, low-confidence player, so that we can have someone who can bruise other players, sacrificing proper development. We've seen teams that have decided to take the other approach and be successful. Teams such as Chicago, Pittsburgh, or Tampa Bay who decided that waiting and developing was the necessary approach. Sure, in the waiting time there was frustration: fans stopped attending games, players didn't want to come to their city, people were fired, and the playoffs were no longer an option. That sense of pride had to be swept aside. However, the 'wrestling with the wait' saw them attain the bigger prize. Sure, Tampa has not yet won a cup, but it will be on the horizon for several years as their team will continue to flourish. 

We're seeing other teams who are now at the ladder end of the wait, such as Toronto and Edmonton, who were a laughing stock of the NHL for several years now taking the league by storm. Their pride had to demolished in order for the hopes of the greater prize in the future. 

Canucks currently, are a team that's nibbling on the marshmallow as they wait for the 2nd one. Not fully eating it, and not fully waiting, trying to get the best of both worlds. However, in this test, even a nibble disqualifies you from obtaining the 2nd marshmallow, or the greater prize. The sense of pride is still standing in the way. Our ownership, management, and fans do not want to be the ones who sit there waiting while watching everyone else snack away. Sure, it's a difficult thing to do. It can mean the loss of money, seats not filled up, players signing other places, people losing jobs, and the cup far out of our grasp. But isn't ripping the bandaid and putting that respect that we so desperately want in the vault for a little while better than the illusion that we are still the team we were in the past? 

Let me know your thoughts

Thanks for reading. 

My thought in response to your post is: YOU ARE WAY TOO SMART TO BE ON CDC!  Are we (CDC posters) your marshmallow test?  :frantic:

 

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The only way this team on its current course is going to land a top 6 player towards rebuilding is through free agency or trade. Not fully committing to rebuilding and trying to stay competitive with what we have is not going to get a franchise player draft pick. After Miller and Burrows contracts are up , there is cap space to land someone decent. Or there's also the idea of a Tanev trade. But there's always hope we make the playoffs somehow in the meantime.

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2 hours ago, Baggins said:

I see it the opposite way. You guys wanting kids to be handed ice time regardless of performance are the one marshmallow people. No patience. Those of us wanting the kids to be brought along slowly and earn their roster spot and ice are the two marshmallow folks. We have the patience.

Ding f'ing ding. 

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As long as management sticks with their plan I'll be happy.

 

Has anything changed with respect to the rebuild since last year?  Not really.  

 

Last year, they said that they wanted to win and make the playoffs.  When Benning arrived, the plan was to develop players in a winning environment, so 2 years ago, they wanted to win.  And now this year, they want to win too.  This talk about winning ahead of developing is spin.  They're trying to sell tickets.

 

Are they rebuilding and slowly introducing drafted players?  Still, yes.  

Year 1.  Horvat.  Year 2.  McCann, Virtanen.  Year 3. Gaunce.

 

Have they been adding players in their early 20's to help make up for poor drafting for 5-7 years?  Yes

Year 1.  Bonino, Sbisa, Vey.  Year 2.  Sutter. Bartkowski, Etem, Granlund.  Year 3.  Rodin, Larsen, Gudbranson, Stecher.

 

Have they been adding veteran players to shoulder the responsibility and tough match ups on top lines?  Yes

Year 1.  Vrbata, Miller, Dorsett.  Year 2 Prust, (Sutter....there's some overlap).  Year 3. Erickson.

 

The difference between this year and last year is the new system they're playing.

 

 

 

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1) I can totally appreciate a well thought out analogy. 

Using examples to explain a concept of ideology means thinking about attitude and perspective. 

 

2) smaller minded people (who willlfully take more of an insult, point at the problem kind of attitude) typically dont appreciate the insight. 

 

3) Ive noticed that when people have  opinions, observations and comments there will always be thay 20 - 30 % who come along and think your jumping to conclusions. 

"Its only the preaeason"

"Its only been 7 games and look at you"

"People who jump to conclusions are the problem"

I disagree.  Its ok to taste the soup while your cooking it. Its ok for fans to be critical. Its ok to like certain aspects, dislike others and postulate solutions. 

Most of this comes from a "fix it, make it better" attitude.

The people who incessantly attack ideas, opinions and analysis typically take on some form of predictive apprehension where aside from scolding and reprimanding other people for their input and predictions, they tend to offer up very little of their own. 

Its easier to sit back and mock people who take a stand than to stand on your own for something. 

Its safer to scoff at a voiced idea or opinion than it is to speak up and expose yourself to that very criticism. 

 

That being said , i think the coach is not motivating or supporting his players. He needs to provide the framework for their success. I saw a new jersey style defence and a detroit style smart passing offence with systems and an organised game since Jarvis arrived. Now its slowly breaking down. Could be fatigue , could be willie trying to do too much of what he cant. Tonight will be interesting, when we can take the tired excuse away and see structurally if the brains behind the bench are doong their job.

 

When 1 or two guys look bad its likely because they need to do more, or get on board. 

When the whole team looks bad , with a few bright spots...... thats coaching.. 

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