When Bo gets treated like Nylander, maybe we'll suck less

[luckylager]

1 hour ago, S'all Good Man said:

Its interesting to compare flamingo-boy Nylander to Bo this year and put some actual numbers to it.

 

5 on 5 shooting % - Bo 7.77, Nylander 8.4

 

Offensive zone stats - Bo 48%, Flaming Flamingo 57.8

 

Points - 13 goals 12 assists Bo, playing 62% with Baer and Burr, little Willie has 7 goals 15 assists playing 79% with Austin 

 

And thats with Bo killing penalties too, which we all know how Nylander blocks pucks

 

Horvat is out-producing Nylander with a great deal more responsibility and less talented line mates. If Willie D can get it into his head to play Bo 20% more in the offensive zone we might have a chance at winning a few more of these games. 

 

 

 

 

But, but Bo's a checking forward and should be on the bottom six.

 

I mean ideally, he's on the fourth line...

 

Eh Willy, eh. Winkwink, nudgenudge, know what I mean.

Fourth liner

Eh

Willy

[luckylager]

14 minutes ago, Alflives said:

And keeps his offensive numbers down, during negotiations for his next contract too.  

 

 

My hat!

 

Where'd that lucky punk find it? I thought I lost it during my first orbit

 

Wait.... Alf... Did you steal my hat and give it some French guy?

[IBatch]

38 minutes ago, Baggins said:

 

Actually I think Willie is playing Bo to his real strength - creating off the rush. His line not as effective getting high scoring chances starting in the O-zone. Giving Bo D-zone starts plays to all his strengths - faceoffs, defensive play, and leading a rush up the ice.

Understood but if he spends more time in the zone the puck has a better chance of staying there and his line has more opportunities to score.  The Sedins were played brilliantly by AV but they are older now and it's time to shake it up.  Admittedly the team could be better but no harm in moving pieces around to maximize results.

[mll]

1 hour ago, Baggins said:

 

Actually I think Willie is playing Bo to his real strength - creating off the rush. His line not as effective getting high scoring chances starting in the O-zone. Giving Bo D-zone starts plays to all his strengths - faceoffs, defensive play, and leading a rush up the ice.

 

His line is starting to get more offensive zone starts compared to the start of the season.  I don't think the plan is for him to produce only off the rush otherwise it makes no sense to play him with Baer.   They are not the most logical combo given the type of players they are - offence only player vs two-way player whose strength is seen to be defence.  Yet the team is sticking with them for now (although Baer seems to be on a thin line) and it's probably because they expect their offensive game to grow together.   

 

Baer just told CanucksArmy that one of the benefits of having Burrows on the line is that he slows the game down and it allows them to play more of a cycle based attack.  That speaks more to Baer's strength.  Horvat is adding a new layer to his offence.

[tas]

2 hours ago, S'all Good Man said:

Its interesting to compare flamingo-boy Nylander to Bo this year and put some actual numbers to it.

 

5 on 5 shooting % - Bo 7.77, Nylander 8.4

 

Offensive zone stats - Bo 48%, Flaming Flamingo 57.8

 

Points - 13 goals 12 assists Bo, playing 62% with Baer and Burr, little Willie has 7 goals 15 assists playing 79% with Austin 

 

And thats with Bo killing penalties too, which we all know how Nylander blocks pucks

 

Horvat is out-producing Nylander with a great deal more responsibility and less talented line mates. If Willie D can get it into his head to play Bo 20% more in the offensive zone we might have a chance at winning a few more of these games. 

 

 

 

 

it's nice of you to spot bo 3 goals and 1 assist, but it's a little misleading.

 

reality:

 

horvat: 35 gp  10 g  11 a  21 p  0.60 ppg

nylander: 32 gp  7 g  15 a  22 p  0.69 ppg

 

49 vs 57 points over 82 games. 

[JM_]

1 hour ago, Monty said:

Comparing first year professional to a third  

 

How about compare draft picks from same draft?

 

Nylander/Ehlers/Ritchie>>>>>Virtanen

 

 

Nylander - 3 years with the Marllies, now 1st line with TO - he's not exactly raw!

Bo - made the jump from the OHL to NHL at 18, 3rd year 

 

The contrast is one of deployment as well. Maybe thats going to far for some. 

[JM_]

10 minutes ago, tas said:

it's nice of you to spot bo 3 goals and 1 assist, but it's a little misleading.

 

reality:

 

horvat: 35 gp  10 g  11 a  21 p  0.60 ppg

nylander: 32 gp  7 g  15 a  22 p  0.69 ppg

 

49 vs 57 points over 82 games. 

 

Oh! thanks for that  - not sure why i read that! I'll blame the coffee and baileys  i'll change it now 

[saucypass]

It's one thing to compare Horvat to Nylander to speak out against how WD can better use Horvat and other young player's deployment, and then there's secretly trying to bash another young player from another organization. 

 

I agree with the premise that Horvat has proved he deserves more offensive zone starts, but comparing the two players is ridiculous. Different players are developed differently, and of all the players you could've picked, you pick Nylander? 

 

Not to mention, one is a first year rookie, while the other is in his third year?!? 

 

Complete two way players like Horvat needs to learn the defensive side of the game, and as a result are put in situations that are offensively unfavorable. If you're honest with the intentions of your post, then I'm not sure why you didn't use a player like Monahan or even Larkin if you really wanted to jump draf classes, as a compareable. 

 

 

[oldnews]

Bo isn't a shrinking violet.

Stop patronizing the young man.  He doesn't need to be spoon-fed or sheltered and doing so won't necessarily make him a better player.

[JustABandwagoner]

1 hour ago, Monty said:

Comparing first year professional to a third  

 

How about compare draft picks from same draft?

 

Nylander/Ehlers/Ritchie>>>>>Virtanen

I remember lots of fans calling not to draft Virt on this board xD 

I wonder why Benning drafted Virtanen over those 3. I think Button (lots of people hate him) said Virt will be only a 3rd line winger or something 

[darkpoet]

2 hours ago, knucklehead91 said:

Bo is being developed into a complete player and he will be one of the best complete players this organization has ever seen along with one of the best in the NHL when he really hits his prime. The kid is special, he has determination and a work ethic above and beyond. How hard he worked on his skating shows just how hard he digs to improve and succeed. The kid has winner written all over him. I have honestly never been so in love with a player, ive had pleanty of fav canucks players but ive never watched a player each and every shift as closely as Bo. I hope he retires a Canuck

Another player with those same qualities and drive, is Stecher.

The kid rode his bike to the rink for crying out loud.

 

Canucks Now ‏@CanucksNow  Dec 21

Linden on Stecher: "His motor just runs and it runs hot and it never stops. That speaks to his character and his heart and determination."

 

2 guys this team can definitely build around. No doubt on that.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

Just now, darkpoet said:

The kid rode his bike to the rink for crying out loud.
 

heh, I think he doesn't *look* old enough to even have a drivers license.

[mll]

3 hours ago, S'all Good Man said:

Its interesting to compare flamingo-boy Nylander to Bo this year and put some actual numbers to it.

 

5 on 5 shooting % - Bo 7.77, Nylander 8.4

 

Offensive zone stats - Bo 48%, Flaming Flamingo 57.8

 

Points - 10 goals 11 assists Bo, playing 62% with Baer and Burr, little Willie has 7 goals 15 assists playing 79% with Austin 

 

And thats with Bo killing penalties too, which we all know how Nylander blocks pucks

 

Horvat is out-producing Nylander with a great deal more responsibility and less talented line mates. If Willie D can get it into his head to play Bo 20% more in the offensive zone we might have a chance at winning a few more of these games. 

 

 

 

 

 

Blame the powerplay.  Nylander has 12 pts on the PP.  He has only 10 EV points compared to Horvat's 17 EV points.  Horvat has only 2pts on the PP (playing 0:40 less than Nylander 1:50 vs 2:30).  The other 2pts were SH.  

[Monty]

33 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

 

 

Nylander - 3 years with the Marllies, now 1st line with TO - he's not exactly raw!

Bo - made the jump from the OHL to NHL at 18, 3rd year 

 

Wow, so much wrong here.

[Baggins]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Understood but if he spends more time in the zone the puck has a better chance of staying there and his line has more opportunities to score.  The Sedins were played brilliantly by AV but they are older now and it's time to shake it up.  Admittedly the team could be better but no harm in moving pieces around to maximize results.

 

Well by giving the Sedins more O-zone starts and Bo more D-zone starts isn't Willie actually playing both to their strengths? Any coach that wants to win will play more than one line to their strength.

[Baggins]

56 minutes ago, mll said:

 

His line is starting to get more offensive zone starts compared to the start of the season.  I don't think the plan is for him to produce only off the rush otherwise it makes no sense to play him with Baer.   They are not the most logical combo given the type of players they are - offence only player vs two-way player whose strength is seen to be defence.  Yet the team is sticking with them for now (although Baer seems to be on a thin line) and it's probably because they expect their offensive game to grow together.   

 

Baer just told CanucksArmy that one of the benefits of having Burrows on the line is that he slows the game down and it allows them to play more of a cycle based attack.  That speaks more to Baer's strength.  Horvat is adding a new layer to his offence.

 

I never said only give him d-zone starts. Just it's been his greatest strength. I fully expect to see a gradual change over.

[Emmetts]

3 hours ago, canuktravella said:

i m starting to think benning is intentially limiting horvats minutes so we get a top 3 pick this yr otherwise  benning and willie should be fire on the spot. Your right imagine if horvat and virtanen actually got offensive minutes and not put on fourth line  they are better than nylander  

This. The fact virt didnt get consostent 2nd or 3rd line mins blows my mind. We need physical presence who can stick up for team mates, for check and score. 

 

At least we have hansen? Lol

[NewbieCanuckFan]

Just now, Baggins said:

 

Well by giving the Sedins more O-zone starts and Bo more D-zone starts isn't Willie actually playing both to their strengths? Any coach that wants to win will play more than one line to their strength.

In the case of Bo, I don't think it is (his defensive work needs work).  Course, I think that's a good thing - it gives Bo a chance to work on that part of the game (just wish he'd be given more offensive opportunities - which is his strength at the moment).

 

[VC420]

I think the way Bo is handled is ridiculous. How many teams would continue to play their leading scorer/2nd leading scorer on a third line.

Young players on other teams seem to get handed the keys to the kingdom while Bo is constantly refused that luxury even when he does everything to earn it. 

The coaches and management keep spewing this BS that he has to do more to earn it, that he needs to play in the dzone and kill penalties before he gets chances to play offense.That is bogus. Bo has shown from his first career game and onwards that he can play defense. This year Horvat has also shown the ability to be a good offensive player and is showing why he was an OHL playoff MVP and  Memorial cup leading goal scorer.

Its time  for management to admit that the Sedins cant provide consistent offense anymore, that they wont win a cup in Vancouver so long as they are the top line.

 Bo still has plenty of time to continue developing his game, we should take the opportunity we have with him and give him more chances to grow offensively.

 

 

I thought Bo was our best forward last night against Calgary and that has been the case for most of the season. Its time to start looking at different alternatives to the Sedins, and Horvat is our best option. 

 

 

 

[Down by the River]

47 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

 

 

Nylander - 3 years with the Marllies, now 1st line with TO - he's not exactly raw!

Bo - made the jump from the OHL to NHL at 18, 3rd year 

 

The contrast is one of deployment as well. Maybe thats going to far for some. 

 

Three years? A year and a half for a total of less than 80 games. http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=166009

 

Nylander is good. Bo is good. It is weird to compare the two because they are expected to play a different type of game. Yes, they are being deployed differently, but for the rest of their careers they are going to be deployed differently because they are different players.