[GDT] Vancouver Canucks @ Chicago Blackhawks | Mar 21 | 5:30 PM | SN |

[canuck73_3]

1 minute ago, DeNiro said:

Who says they're losing on purpose? The roster is just that bad. 

 

You do realize just because some fans want them to lose that it doesn't affect how they play on the ice right?

 

They're not which is why I trust JB plan, this team is bad and will be for another 2/3 years. There's no band aid fix.  I'm just enjoying watching this team/Benning's vision grow.  

 

Also I'm well aware what's said on here doesn't affect how they play, because if it did this franchise would have an even more disastrous history than it already has. I just don't understand cheering for a loss, maybe its because I played sports at a high level for years but I'm sorry I just don't get it. 

[DeNiro]

1 minute ago, canuck73_3 said:

 

They're not which is why I trust JB plan, this team is bad and will be for another 2/3 years. There's no band aid fix.  I'm just enjoying watching this team/Benning's vision grow.  

 

Also I'm well aware what's said on here doesn't affect how they play, because if it did this franchise would have an even more disastrous history than it already has. I just don't understand cheering for a loss, maybe its because I played sports at a high level for years but I'm sorry I just don't get it. 

Same reason they can ice an AHL roster and still hope that guys play hard.

 

Management has to have an eye on the future right now. They're never going to tell guys to try to lose, but there's ways for them to ensure they do. It happens every year in this league, and if you think we're different or somehow impervious to this, think again.

 

If we draft a top 2 impact player, everyone will be thrilled, and will forget all about the days of having Michael Chaput on our top line.

[canuck2288]

14 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

You're clearly delusional, I understand the team is/will be bad. What we're saying is we don't want the team to be bad on purpose. Losing by 1 goal is better than losing by 4/5/6+ 

 

Losing but remaining competitive is better for team growth than 10% better draft odds in a poor draft year. 

 

Edit: I've never been under the impression we could rebuild and be a playoff team, I'm just completely against losing on purpose it's pathetic. 

First of all, a loss is a loss. There are no "you came close" awards in pro sports 

 

secondly the Leafs and Oilers tanked and look how they were rewarded. The system encourages and rewards it so sometimes you have to come off the high horse and plan for better days ahead. 

 

lastly we are are FAR from "competitive " with our 67 points 

 

once we dump Willie and stock the shelves in the draft, things will get better 

[canuck73_3]

2 minutes ago, canuck2288 said:

First of all, a loss is a loss. There are no "you came close" awards in pro sports 

 

secondly the Leafs and Oilers tanked and look how they were rewarded. The system encourages and rewards it so sometimes you have to come off the high horse and plan for better days ahead. 

 

lastly we are are FAR from "competitive " with our 67 points 

 

once we dump Willie and stock the shelves in the draft, things will get better 

Lol "rewarded" yeah after a decade of being a total joke.

 

Also competitive as in losing in close games, not playoff competitive. 

[Fan since 82]

1 hour ago, Trebreh said:

WD is on record saying he doesn't like stage fighting. since that comment we've seen the departure of physical players and overall physicality on this team.

 

 

TL is also on the record as saying he doesn't like staged fighting. TL actually has said he would rather see fighting gone from the game. 

[hockeyville88]

1 hour ago, BananaMash said:

As much as I want a good pick, I really admire his competitiveness and lack of quit even when the team is garbage though.

I don't think I ever really respected Miller until he played here.

 

But seriously he needs to stop being good. Miller, you're old, knock it off!

Agreed. And he never shows frustration at his team mates to the media. Ton of respect for that and for his compete level 

[bobbyg43]

14 minutes ago, Fan since 82 said:

TL is also on the record as saying he doesn't like staged fighting. TL actually has said he would rather see fighting gone from the game. 

So is the Medicine Hat blues ?

pacifists will be good for game when all cheap shot artists are gone from the games. We may be waiting awhile yet. Most fans don't really like staged fights either .

[darkpoet]

47 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

 I just don't understand cheering for a loss, maybe its because I played sports at a high level for years but I'm sorry I just don't get it. 

What or whom will you be cheering for April 6th, 3 days before the end of our season?

That's the night we play Arizona. And I can say with 100% certainty, the only thing to play for in that game is draft position. 

Do you let "pride drive you" and go all out trying to win an otherwise completely meaningless game, or do you make it look good and then score an own goal by accident-on-purpose with 1 min left?

That 1 single game right there could mean the difference between drafting 2nd overall, and 7th. We saw the BS that happened last year.
 

[canuck73_3]

Just now, darkpoet said:

What or whom will you be cheering for April 6th, 3 days before the end of our season?

That's the night we play Arizona. And I can say with 100% certainty, the only thing to play for in that game is draft position. 

Do you let "pride drive you" and go all out trying to win an otherwise completely meaningless game, or do you make it look good and then score an own goal by accident-on-purpose with 1 min left?

That 1 single game right there could mean the difference between drafting 2nd overall, and 7th. We saw the BS that happened last year.
 

We had the 3rd best odds and the team with the 5th best odds won the day. On the last game of the season a win or a loss wouldn't have made a difference. 

[darkpoet]

Just now, canuck73_3 said:

We had the 3rd best odds and the team with the 5th best odds won the day. On the last game of the season a win or a loss wouldn't have made a difference. 

Not my point, but yes. That's what happened.

Imagine for a moment how good Laine would look in a Canucks uni right now.

Because that could have happened had we not gone out and won 4 of our last 6 games last year. 3 of which were against the Sharks, Ducks and Kings.

Were those 3 wins worth exchanging Laine for Juolevi ?

I'm using your point to try and make mine again.... we got an extra 6 points at the end of the year, and in return we got to pick a defenceman who's still in Junior, instead of an 18 year old in Laine who's got 64 points in 68 games for Winnipeg this year. 

The term "swallow your pride" rears it's head here. 

[canuck73_3]

1 hour ago, darkpoet said:

Not my point, but yes. That's what happened.

Imagine for a moment how good Laine would look in a Canucks uni right now.

Because that could have happened had we not gone out and won 4 of our last 6 games last year. 3 of which were against the Sharks, Ducks and Kings.

Were those 3 wins worth exchanging Laine for Juolevi ?

I'm using your point to try and make mine again.... we got an extra 6 points at the end of the year, and in return we got to pick a defenceman who's still in Junior, instead of an 18 year old in Laine who's got 64 points in 68 games for Winnipeg this year. 

The term "swallow your pride" rears it's head here. 

Us losing those games wouldn't have got us Laine though, we had a 50% chance at Laine/Matthews at best and seeing that Winnipeg got 2nd anyway we would have still likely ended up with Dubois or Juolevi anyway. 

[Neko]

Winnipeg finished 25th last year (#6 in draft) and magically moved to #2 while the Canucks at #3 had a better chance got bumped down, that's how unpredictable the draft lottery can be so there's no definite position until the results comes in.

 

7 hours ago, Fan since 82 said:

TL is also on the record as saying he doesn't like staged fighting. TL actually has said he would rather see fighting gone from the game. 

Yeah and then who's going to take care of goons like Tkachuk elbowing people's faces?

[-DLC-]

14 hours ago, canuck2288 said:

for those that don't like tanking, look what the Leafs did and the reward was Matthews 

 

its the "system" and you can't hate for playing it in our favour when the playoffs are out of sight 

They haven't done anything until they've won a cup.  The ultimate reward. Not something that pumps the tires and the egos because "we have the best".  You have to be the best.  Look, it's all great to have a superstar...but that matters little IN a big picture way because the only thing they are really brought in to do is help win a cup.  Anything less and they may as well be Joe Schmoe.  Sure, having a game changer increases the odds of getting there but, until you do, it's irrelevant how "good" your pick is.  What matters is how "good" your team is.  And there's only one goal that measures that.  How you get there?  No one cares in the end.  

 

14 hours ago, NHTyrany said:

Tell that to Toronto and the statisticians. It's all about best odds. Even under the new rules, finishing last or second is still an advantageous position.

It is advantageous if it pays off.  See above.  We had two of the best in the league but no one cares until they bring a cup here.  The flash, dazzle, Sedinery will not "count" for much beyond that except to fans here.  Sadly.  Sure....it increases the odds a great deal if you have a gifted player who is a step above others....but if he scores 4 goals and you lose 5-4, it matters little.   

 

14 hours ago, oldnews said:

LOL. You have literally no idea what will happen at the draft.

This.  ^

14 hours ago, DeNiro said:

No, it's all because management and ownership haven't surrounded guys like Tavares with a deep enough team to compete. That takes money and smart management, which they don't have.

So if, in your own words, it's much MORE than JUST acquiring that sought after superstar pick, then perhaps it isn't a foolproof plan.  Seems like a lot of other stuff factors in, which is our point.  Sure, you have a potentially better shot at things, but none of this is guaranteed.  High picks aren't.  Winning a cup because you have them aren't.  It's a whole lot of stuff that has to fall into place and you seem to understand that.  And this will tie in to one of my next comments...

 

13 hours ago, DeNiro said:

This is the season that Benning needs to get that top pick and put a stamp on this team.

But all that other stuff too?  Putting a stamp on a team is but one part of building a successful team.  A scorer doesn't defend or goaltend or coach or train (as you've agreed upon) and so it's important NOT to put all the eggs in a basket.  It becomes a great deal to do with ego and team identity, as fans grow restless with "losing" and want a winner.  But no one knows the winner until the end...which is why every team gives it a go.  Would be no point in playing if there were guaranteed results for teams who did "this and that".  Sure, there are patterns that show teams have a better chance if they have depth and draft well....but some still struggle and it's not a formula any more than it's an experiment.  And some are successes and some failures.

 

13 hours ago, DeNiro said:

We're tanking right now, you understand that right?

 

You think shutting down players and giving younger guys more minutes is in the name of winning? 

 

Trust me, they know what they're doing. Benning and Willie are on the same page as far as what needs to happen.

Then why are we grumbling?  There's a balance in "tanking" and losing that needs to be kept in check.  We're dealing with human beings and confidence (or lack thereof) can have a huge impact over time.  We want them to be hungry and never say die...even IF it means winning meaningless games.  If it costs us and we drop a pick that we may or may not have stayed in position for, that's unavoidable.  

 

13 hours ago, canuck2288 said:

There are no "you came close" awards in pro sports 

 

secondly the Leafs and Oilers tanked and look how they were rewarded.

Apply the first line to your second.  So if Matthews or McDavid don't hoist the cup, how close they came or how great they are won't matter much.  They have been rewarded but not with the "prize"...which is the cup.  The Leafs are barely hanging on to a playoff spot last time I checked.  So sure, they have Matthews but I don't give a flying frisbee about that....they can boast only if he is part of a team that wins the cup.  Until then, we're all "non winners" and in the same boat.

 

 

Look, I am ok with losing at this point...even understand that it's "best" in some regards.  But is it?  So the team hangs their heads...goes out there and gets beat up and slinks off the ice.  Frustrated, because they're still expected to PLAY, but losing is ok?  From everything I've ever seen, it's not for professional athletes...they are competitive.  We want them to be and it's not usually a switch that you can flick on and off.  So the repercussions in stringing together losses, even if perfectly timed in a big picture way, are something to consider.  I want these guys feeling the adrenaline of beating the Hawks.  I want them to try to beat them every time, without fail.  LEARN how to beat them.  And that's ok too.

[Dr. Crossbar]

2 hours ago, debluvscanucks said:

We had two of the best in the league but no one cares until they bring a cup here.  The flash, dazzle, Sedinery will not "count" for much beyond that except to fans here.  Sadly.  Sure....it increases the odds a great deal if you have a gifted player who is a step above others....but if he scores 4 goals and you lose 5-4, it matters little.   

 

This is true. There are many legitimate factors at play on both sides of the debate, right way vs. wrong way, but we also have history to take into consideration when it comes to gifted players.

 

We went to the Cup three times. The first time without a bonafide superstar. The second with one of the most gifted, game changing goal scorers of all time. The third time with two elite, gifted playmakers/scorers and one of the top goaltenders in the game.

 

The end result ... no Cup. 

 

Whatever way we rebuild, ultimately the only thing you can do is put the team in the best possible position to win and legitimately contend for a few years. There are a lot of factors that go into that. But as our own history proves, nothing is a guarantee.

 

This is where I see Benning working his tail of to spot talent beyond the Top 5 draft. He's making the team as deep as he can in young talent so that if we do pick #1, #2, #3, etc, we won't be solely reliant on one or two elite players to carry the entire team.

 

And he already knows this team will lose but the wins like last night have intangible cultural value that will carry over into next season when other young players crack the line-up. So, although the wins decrease our odds from a short-term tank perspective, they do increase our odds of succeeding down the line from a development/cultural perspective.

 

Still, no guarantees, but at least we'll have Juolevi from last year, likely Top 5 or higher this year ... plus Boeser, Dahlen, Goldy, Gaudette, hopefully Virtanen, Subban ... not bad at all. 

[Bo053]

17 hours ago, CaptainCanuck001 said:

They're no different than Canucks fans, didn't care when the Hawks sucked now that the Hawks are perennial SC contenders it's a different story.

Would you care about the team if the owner was as bad as old man Wirtz and didn't even televise the games?

 

[canuck2288]

McDavid and Matthews are changing the trajectory of their respective franchises. 

 

Like it or not , they were "loser rewards" granted under the current system so why would any team looking to rebuild and out of the playoffs not mail it in to play along? 

[Fan since 82]

9 hours ago, Creepy Crawler said:

Winnipeg finished 25th last year (#6 in draft) and magically moved to #2 while the Canucks at #3 had a better chance got bumped down, that's how unpredictable the draft lottery can be so there's no definite position until the results comes in.

 

Yeah and then who's going to take care of goons like Tkachuk elbowing people's faces?

Not really saying that I agree just pointing out the attitude of the leadership. Now TL was a tough guy and always stuck up for his team mates. I remember seeing him scrap but it was very rare, and I also remember thinking several times that he needed to make more noise physically from time to time.

[CaptainCanuck001]

1 hour ago, Bo053 said:

Would you care about the team if the owner was as bad as old man Wirtz and didn't even televise the games?

 

Yes, 

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, Bo053 said:

Would you care about the team if the owner was as bad as old man Wirtz and didn't even televise the games?

 

Games were pretty much only on the radio for the first thirty years, and many became HUGE fans.  

[Bo053]

39 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Games were pretty much only on the radio for the first thirty years, and many became HUGE fans.  

Bill Wirtz was hated in Chicago because of how he ran the team, they even booed him when he was "honored" at a game after he died. Nobody is going to support a team run by someone they hate that much.

His son took over and reversed a lot of his policies and made decisions and moves his dad never would have that are the reason Chicago has 3 cups since 2010 and could very will win another this year.