Jack Rathbone | #3 | D

[stawns]

12 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Myers has more of a laser guided missile that is locked onto the glass 5 feet above the net. 

Haha, true story

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

26 minutes ago, Canucks Curse said:

Looking at numbers from Harvard Rathbones development is on par or ahead of his teammate from back then Adam Fox. Fox played three years at Harvard with his second year very comparable to Jack's 2nd year and Jack instead of returning to Harvard like Fox did for a 3rd year, went pro and has been destroying the AHL. Tbh if Boudreau did not know Hunt prior to this year (the only player he knew prior to joining Canucks) and if Hunt wasn't doing all a 3rd pair D could do to stay in NHL, Jack would be up here, he was close to making team anyway, I am hopeful he will be a star for us

I don’t think you can say “on par or ahead” when there’s only 15 months difference in age between Fox and Rathbone.

 

Fox is the reigning Norris trophy winner and in his third full NHL season, with a career NHL points per game of 0.79. And Fox was a 1.20 points per game player in college, compared to Rathbone at 0.87. Adam Fox is on a different level. Which takes nothing away from Jack Rathbone. There are only a handful of defencemen in the world who compare favourably to Fox.

 

I’m a big “booster” for Rathbone and very optimistic, perhaps even over-optimistic at times, when it comes to Jack’s ability and potential, but I still think Fox is just on another level. 
 

As for why Rathbone isn’t in the NHL right now, I’d say that has more to do with Quinn Hughes than Brad Hunt. Without Hughes, I could see Rathbone slotting into this lineup in an semi-sheltered offensive role in the top-4 and on the power play. But with Hughes taking the prime offensive opportunities (and deservedly so), and OEL also eating up lots of minutes (again, deservedly so), the 3rd pairing LHD role is what remains, and that’s probably not an ideal fit for Rathbone (at least at the moment).

[-Vintage Canuck-]

Jack Rathbone finished with a goal and an assist last night. He has three goals and 11 assists over his last nine games.

[DeNiro]

12 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

Jack Rathbone finished with a goal and an assist last night. He has three goals and 11 assists over his last nine games.

On pace for 78 points had he played a full season.

 

Would put him top 10 in the league in scoring, and not just for defensemen…

[Fred65]

1 hour ago, DeNiro said:

On pace for 78 points had he played a full season.

 

Would put him top 10 in the league in scoring, and not just for defensemen…

If Vcr loses to Minn tonight you'd have to think Rathbone gets a call up

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

I don’t think you can say “on par or ahead” when there’s only 15 months difference in age between Fox and Rathbone.

 

Fox is the reigning Norris trophy winner and in his third full NHL season, with a career NHL points per game of 0.79. And Fox was a 1.20 points per game player in college, compared to Rathbone at 0.87. Adam Fox is on a different level. Which takes nothing away from Jack Rathbone. There are only a handful of defencemen in the world who compare favourably to Fox.

 

I’m a big “booster” for Rathbone and very optimistic, perhaps even over-optimistic at times, when it comes to Jack’s ability and potential, but I still think Fox is just on another level. 
 

As for why Rathbone isn’t in the NHL right now, I’d say that has more to do with Quinn Hughes than Brad Hunt. Without Hughes, I could see Rathbone slotting into this lineup in an semi-sheltered offensive role in the top-4 and on the power play. But with Hughes taking the prime offensive opportunities (and deservedly so), and OEL also eating up lots of minutes (again, deservedly so), the 3rd pairing LHD role is what remains, and that’s probably not an ideal fit for Rathbone (at least at the moment).

That is all true.  However, you forgot to mention that after Rathbone was drafted he didn't go straight to Harvard like Fox.  He took an entire year off to be with his brother.  That one year away from the game certainly derailed his development.

 

I'm not saying that Rathbone is on Fox's level, but I do think that he is a little behind in his development, especially defensively, because of that one year off.  He has come around defensively and so being in the AHL is where he needed to be.  Offensively, I think he has just as much talent as Fox to be honest.  Rathbone can skate like the wind, has great edge work and lateral mobility and has a booming shot.  

 

I predict he will be a top 4 Dman in the NHL.  Unfortunately it may not be with the Canucks unless we move one of OEL or Hughes.  Rathbone may never win the Norris trophy, but he will be a dominant NHL Dman for somebody in the not too distant future. 

[Boudrias]

3 hours ago, DeNiro said:

On pace for 78 points had he played a full season.

 

Would put him top 10 in the league in scoring, and not just for defensemen…

Jack Rathbone has played as many games to date (44) as he did in the past 2 seasons. A deep Calder run does him the world of good for his development. He could hopefully get another 25 games with a strong playoff. He hasn't cracked the NHL simply because he hasn't had enough games. Great talent. 

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

That is all true.  However, you forgot to mention that after Rathbone was drafted he didn't go straight to Harvard like Fox.  He took an entire year off to be with his brother.  That one year away from the game certainly derailed his development.

 

I'm not saying that Rathbone is on Fox's level, but I do think that he is a little behind in his development, especially defensively, because of that one year off.  He has come around defensively and so being in the AHL is where he needed to be.  Offensively, I think he has just as much talent as Fox to be honest.  Rathbone can skate like the wind, has great edge work and lateral mobility and has a booming shot.  

 

I predict he will be a top 4 Dman in the NHL.  Unfortunately it may not be with the Canucks unless we move one of OEL or Hughes.  Rathbone may never win the Norris trophy, but he will be a dominant NHL Dman for somebody in the not too distant future. 

It’s funny. I watched a fair amount of Fox and Rathbone with Harvard and to my eyes, when you compared individual skill for skill, Rathbone had superior tools in many aspects. What separated Fox wasn’t any particular skill, but more the overall package, especially in terms of his play selection/decision making and just the quality and “smoothness” of his game. It was evident he was “better,” but hard to peg down exactly why. Just was abundantly clear in the eye test, even though Jack seemed to have a better shot, skate better, and, at the college level, anyway, he very often looked more defensively sound than Fox.

 

As for Rathbone’s future, I also see a top-4 NHL Dman. And I don’t think he necessarily doesn’t fit on a roster with Hughes and OEL. He just needs a more refined two-way game, so that he can thrive in 3rd pair minutes (which is where he’ll need to start out). I’d hope he’d eventually force OEL down to the third pair, which, if you ignore the salaries (and we’re going to have to), actually makes for a pretty nice left side D, possibly for as long as OEL’s remaining contract term.

[Boudrias]

2 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

It’s funny. I watched a fair amount of Fox and Rathbone with Harvard and to my eyes, when you compared individual skill for skill, Rathbone had superior tools in many aspects. What separated Fox wasn’t any particular skill, but more the overall package, especially in terms of his play selection/decision making and just the quality and “smoothness” of his game. It was evident he was “better,” but hard to peg down exactly why. Just was abundantly clear in the eye test, even though Jack seemed to have a better shot, skate better, and, at the college level, anyway, he very often looked more defensively sound than Fox.

 

As for Rathbone’s future, I also see a top-4 NHL Dman. And I don’t think he necessarily doesn’t fit on a roster with Hughes and OEL. He just needs a more refined two-way game, so that he can thrive in 3rd pair minutes (which is where he’ll need to start out). I’d hope he’d eventually force OEL down to the third pair, which, if you ignore the salaries (and we’re going to have to), actually makes for a pretty nice left side D, possibly for as long as OEL’s remaining contract term.

44 games in the previous 2 years. 44 games to date this year. Rathbone is finally getting some TOI at the professional level. Hoping for another 25 games this year with playoffs included. 

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

1 minute ago, Boudrias said:

44 games in the previous 2 years. 44 games to date this year. Rathbone is finally getting some TOI at the professional level. Hoping for another 25 games this year with playoffs included. 

Yeah, I’d agree. Had he played a full rookie pro season, no Covid interruptions and no injuries, he’d likely be “fully cooked” by now and NHL ready for whatever spot was available to him in the Canucks lineup.

 

He’ll get there. 

[Boudrias]

38 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Yeah, I’d agree. Had he played a full rookie pro season, no Covid interruptions and no injuries, he’d likely be “fully cooked” by now and NHL ready for whatever spot was available to him in the Canucks lineup.

 

He’ll get there. 

I think Rathbone has played some RD. Is that true? Would be great if he could switch back and forth. 

[higgyfan]

1 hour ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

It’s funny. I watched a fair amount of Fox and Rathbone with Harvard and to my eyes, when you compared individual skill for skill, Rathbone had superior tools in many aspects. What separated Fox wasn’t any particular skill, but more the overall package, especially in terms of his play selection/decision making and just the quality and “smoothness” of his game. It was evident he was “better,” but hard to peg down exactly why. Just was abundantly clear in the eye test, even though Jack seemed to have a better shot, skate better, and, at the college level, anyway, he very often looked more defensively sound than Fox.

 

As for Rathbone’s future, I also see a top-4 NHL Dman. And I don’t think he necessarily doesn’t fit on a roster with Hughes and OEL. He just needs a more refined two-way game, so that he can thrive in 3rd pair minutes (which is where he’ll need to start out). I’d hope he’d eventually force OEL down to the third pair, which, if you ignore the salaries (and we’re going to have to), actually makes for a pretty nice left side D, possibly for as long as OEL’s remaining contract term.

Sid, you must have watched a fair bit of Reilly Walsh, as he was the RD player.  He looks like

he's close to making the jump to the Devils; maybe next season.  He is the same age as Jack

and believe there were top pairing in Uni.  What did you think of Walsh's game?

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, Boudrias said:

I think Rathbone has played some RD. Is that true? Would be great if he could switch back and forth. 

Big three for the Habs’ 70’s cup teams (Robinson, Savard, Lapointe) were all left shot, and played the right side as needed.

Hughes, OEL, and Bone should be able to play the right side, and do well. 

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

It’s funny. I watched a fair amount of Fox and Rathbone with Harvard and to my eyes, when you compared individual skill for skill, Rathbone had superior tools in many aspects. What separated Fox wasn’t any particular skill, but more the overall package, especially in terms of his play selection/decision making and just the quality and “smoothness” of his game. It was evident he was “better,” but hard to peg down exactly why. Just was abundantly clear in the eye test, even though Jack seemed to have a better shot, skate better, and, at the college level, anyway, he very often looked more defensively sound than Fox.

 

As for Rathbone’s future, I also see a top-4 NHL Dman. And I don’t think he necessarily doesn’t fit on a roster with Hughes and OEL. He just needs a more refined two-way game, so that he can thrive in 3rd pair minutes (which is where he’ll need to start out). I’d hope he’d eventually force OEL down to the third pair, which, if you ignore the salaries (and we’re going to have to), actually makes for a pretty nice left side D, possibly for as long as OEL’s remaining contract term.

Good points. I don’t see OEL as a 3rd pairing guy to be honest. Maybe in his last couple of years of his contract. Edler was never a 3rd pairing guy his entire time here. Even at 35. 
 

If OEL is on our 3rd pairing making $7.3 million we are in trouble.  It would be better just to buy him out and make room for a younger guy. Maybe OEL can switch to the right side.  
 

It will be interesting next training camp to see how well Rathbone plays. Maybe we can enjoy him on the 3rd pairing at least for a year or two and see what happens. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Good points. I don’t see OEL as a 3rd pairing guy to be honest. Maybe in his last couple of years of his contract. Edler was never a 3rd pairing guy his entire time here. Even at 35. 
 

If OEL is on our 3rd pairing making $7.3 million we are in trouble.  It would be better just to buy him out and make room for a younger guy. Maybe OEL can switch to the right side.  
 

It will be interesting next training camp to see how well Rathbone plays. Maybe we can enjoy him on the 3rd pairing at least for a year or two and see what happens. 

Is a third pair of Bone and Dermott a good idea?  

OEL Myers

Hughes Schenn

Bone Dermott

 

Are we better than now?  

[Elias Pettersson]

23 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Big three for the Habs’ 70’s cup teams (Robinson, Savard, Lapointe) were all left shot, and played the right side as needed.

Hughes, OEL, and Bone should be able to play the right side, and do well. 

Didn’t the entire Soviet Red Army team shoot left back in the 70’s and 80’s? 

[Elias Pettersson]

10 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Is a third pair of Bone and Dermott a good idea?  

OEL Myers

Hughes Schenn

Bone Dermott

 

Are we better than now?  

Hughes.      Manson 

OEL            Myers 

Rathbone   Schenn

Dermott      Burroughs   
 

We need to upgrade the right side. Add Manson so Schenn doesn’t have to play big minutes. 

[Ray_Cathode]

11 hours ago, stawns said:

Hunt and Myers both have a bomb and OEL is very good at getting pucks to the net.

They are nothing like a Rathbone at getting the shot through, and not just a seventy mph wrist shot from the 8 million dollar marvel. Especially with how often Rathbone negotiates himself into position to shoot slap shot rockets from 20 feet or more inside the blueline.

[Ray_Cathode]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Is a third pair of Bone and Dermott a good idea?  

OEL Myers

Hughes Schenn

Bone Dermott

 

Are we better than now?  

Get rid of OEL, he isn’t even worth half what he is paid. Do you think any team in the league would take OEL and his boat anchor contract even if we threw in Garland? I think not. We are going to be living with Benning’s incompetence for years to come, two cases in point are Juolevi and Virtanen - both 5th overall picks that were abysmal failures, that together could have obviated  any need for the OEL/Garland trade - decent drafting could have provided both of a top four D and big physical winger that can score - that is what you expect from a top five pick. Instead we have a prospect pool that ranks what - 29th overall? Graduation is no excuse for a dearth of prospects when you’ve had seven years of lottery picks - virtually every team has graduated prospects.
 

This D needs a radical rebuild, just consider that Schenn was a part time D in Tampa - on our bunch he is top four. And that is not a put down of Schenn - he earns every nickel he gets. On a decent D, neither of Hunt nor Dermott even get a sniff - which is how we acquired them - they were cast-offs. Why on earth do we even consider keeping them? Cap space. Myers was marginal in Winnipeg, and we pay him 6 mil per. It’s not the player’s fault that they are vastly overpaid, it is the result of Benning’s desperate need to become immediately mediocre.

[ShawnAntoski]

1 hour ago, Ray_Cathode said:

Get rid of OEL, he isn’t even worth half what he is paid. Do you think any team in the league would take OEL and his boat anchor contract even if we threw in Garland? I think not. We are going to be living with Benning’s incompetence for years to come, two cases in point are Juolevi and Virtanen - both 5th overall picks that were abysmal failures, that together could have obviated  any need for the OEL/Garland trade - decent drafting could have provided both of a top four D and big physical winger that can score - that is what you expect from a top five pick. Instead we have a prospect pool that ranks what - 29th overall? Graduation is no excuse for a dearth of prospects when you’ve had seven years of lottery picks - virtually every team has graduated prospects.
 

This D needs a radical rebuild, just consider that Schenn was a part time D in Tampa - on our bunch he is top four. And that is not a put down of Schenn - he earns every nickel he gets. On a decent D, neither of Hunt nor Dermott even get a sniff - which is how we acquired them - they were cast-offs. Why on earth do we even consider keeping them? Cap space. Myers was marginal in Winnipeg, and we pay him 6 mil per. It’s not the player’s fault that they are vastly overpaid, it is the result of Benning’s desperate need to become immediately mediocre.

Valid points, and it would be miraculous if Allvin can move on from OEL and Myers.