MikeyBoy44 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 On 14/01/2018 at 9:10 PM, granpappy said: if the oilers (very skilled tanking machine) were to out-manoeuvre us and pick up dahlin, a distinct possibility at this point, i wonder if bettman and the govs would pick up on the fact that the new lottery system is f******* With a system based mostly off luck and a team getting luckier than others. How is the system screwed if the outcome ends up being exactly as the rules were set out to do? Other than your bias against Edmonton how else can you explain this? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 20 hours ago, Rush17 said: What caused the 1% increase? 5 yrs are 20% each. Every 4 game span is about 1% We're gettin' there. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granpappy Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 18 hours ago, MikeyBoy44 said: With a system based mostly off luck and a team getting luckier than others. How is the system screwed if the outcome ends up being exactly as the rules were set out to do? Other than your bias against Edmonton how else can you explain this? it's a poor system based on a paranoia that teams will 'tank' in order to get the higher pick. the result is that poor teams will often draft lower than better teams based on a lucky draw. that's how i explain it. last year the canucks were a lousy team that dropped down in the draft while 2 playoff bubble teams moved ahead of them. that the governors are willing to accept this current lottery system as the way to go when it is actually preventing very poor teams from improving through the draft makes it a f***** system. for starters, it would be nice to see only the bottom 10 teams in the lottery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 1 hour ago, granpappy said: it's a poor system based on a paranoia that teams will 'tank' in order to get the higher pick. the result is that poor teams will often draft lower than better teams based on a lucky draw. that's how i explain it. last year the canucks were a lousy team that dropped down in the draft while 2 playoff bubble teams moved ahead of them. that the governors are willing to accept this current lottery system as the way to go when it is actually preventing very poor teams from improving through the draft makes it a f***** system. for starters, it would be nice to see only the bottom 10 teams in the lottery. I kinda agree with you but maybe because the Canucks have been bottom feeders for a few years now. I can see why the NHL wants a lottery simply to penalize teams who deliberately 'tank' to get top picks. If unchecked you could have teams essentially shutting down in December for the sake of a top pick. I have been described as a 'tanker' simply because I argue that management should play their prospects when it becomes obvious they are not playoff contenders. I also feel that converting older players into younger prospects and picks is a legitimate exercise in a rebuild. More often than not the position a team ends up in at draft time is more a reflection of the quality of the roster and quite frankly the management. I do think teams all have timelines and will have to turn over their roster to stay competitive. Management's role is to decide when, how and who. As we can see through time there are some orgs that simply do not do well at this. Many reasons why. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davathor Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 I hate the term 'stealth rebuild'... finishing bottom 5 isn't stealth, and everyone knows and has been calling the Canucks a rebuilding team for the last few years. Really silly term you only see on CDC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 (edited) All the teams that miss the playoffs should have a "3 on 3" tournament of two 5 minute periods plus shootout to decide the drafting order. It would be a money maker for sure and fair. Single game knockout, 6 skaters 1 alternate and 2 goalies (in case 1 gets hurt) 2 five minute periods Plus it's some added interest for those teams who won't get playoff games. Edited January 18, 2018 by Hairy Kneel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 18 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said: All the teams that miss the playoffs should have a "3 on 3" tournament of two 5 minute periods plus shootout to decide the drafting order. It would be a money maker for sure and fair. The idea of the draft order is to encourage parity by giving the weakest teams a shot at the best prospects. Your system gmeould give a tram that just missed the playoffs the best chance st drafting 1st overall by crushing the teams that struggled all year. Not really fair at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 20 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said: All the teams that miss the playoffs should have a "3 on 3" tournament of two 5 minute periods plus shootout to decide the drafting order. It would be a money maker for sure and fair. Player have zero interest in playing those meaningless games. Why would a pending ufa care about helping a team get a better draft pick? Why would fringe nhler care about helping a team get a new player, who’s like going to take his roster spot? Most players are already checked out and have there summer vacations planned. There’s nothing in it for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 (edited) 42 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Player have zero interest in playing those meaningless games. Why would a pending ufa care about helping a team get a better draft pick? Why would fringe nhler care about helping a team get a new player, who’s like going to take his roster spot? Most players are already checked out and have there summer vacations planned. There’s nothing in it for them. You won't need the whole roster, fringe players don't play on the PP or OT anyway. It's 3 o 3 the core players will decide. Edited January 18, 2018 by Hairy Kneel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 42 minutes ago, qwijibo said: The idea of the draft order is to encourage parity by giving the weakest teams a shot at the best prospects. Your system gmeould give a tram that just missed the playoffs the best chance st drafting 1st overall by crushing the teams that struggled all year. Not really fair at all Every team has at least 3 good players that can skate and score. We only need a 6 man roster and 2 goalies (in case one gets hurt) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 6 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said: You won't need the whole roster, fringe players don't play on the PP or OT anyway. It's 3 o 3 the core players will decide. So tell me what players are going to try? Why would a player like baertschi or Hutton try. What’s in it for them. The better the pick the higher the chance they get knocked down the depth chart the next year. Players dont care about draft picks. They have no incentive to. It would be as bad of quality as the allstar game. And because of that any idea to play extra hockey for draft position will never work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 1 minute ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: So tell me what players are going to try? Why would a player like baertschi or Hutton try. What’s in it for them. The better the pick the higher the chance they get knocked down the depth chart the next year. Players dont care about draft picks. They have no incentive to. It would be as bad of quality as the allstar game. And because of that any idea to play extra hockey for draft position will never work. Baers will get a better linemate to help him score more. Hutton's not going. The draft picks will be out in the open with no more criticism of league tampering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said: Baers will get a better linemate to help him score more. Hutton's not going. The draft picks will be out in the open with no more criticism of league tampering. Except players don’t care. You really think baertschi would put an effort in so that Canucks can potentially draft his replacement. Players don’t care. They have no incentive to care. Why risk getting a injury for something that brings them absolutely nothing. They all are upset about a bad season (missing the playoffs) the last thing they want to do is play another maningless game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Except players don’t care. You really think baertschi would put an effort in so that Canucks can potentially draft his replacement. Players don’t care. They have no incentive to care. Why risk getting a injury for something that brings them absolutely nothing. They all are upset about a bad season (missing the playoffs) the last thing they want to do is play another maningless game. I think that a lot of the players would love to have a shot at Dahlin. Yes I think they would care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Except players don’t care. You really think baertschi would put an effort in so that Canucks can potentially draft his replacement. Players don’t care. They have no incentive to care. Why risk getting a injury for something that brings them absolutely nothing. They all are upset about a bad season (missing the playoffs) the last thing they want to do is play another maningless game. I don’t believe the players will play to the lesser/higher of their ability, cause of concerns they could lose their job to the draftee... if the players don’t play well he’ll lose his job anyway, with the added bonus of a worse contract or no contract at all. Whether they want a better players on the team I guess depends on how much they want to win. Edited January 18, 2018 by spook007 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 10 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said: I think that a lot of the players would love to have a shot at Dahlin. Yes I think they would care. Nope, I’m telling they don’t. Very few Players are loyal to the team. Most of themnwont even be here in 2-4 year. Why would anyone block a shot or be willing to take a hit and risk there career. If players cared. Why dont they purposely tank in reg season today. Players care about there own career. Not the franchises. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Nope, I’m telling they don’t. Very few Players are loyal to the team. Most of themnwont even be here in 2-4 year. Why would anyone block a shot or be willing to take a hit and risk there career. If players cared. Why dont they purposely tank in reg season today. Players care about there own career. Not the franchises. A lot of truth in this.... Edited January 18, 2018 by spook007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Nope, I’m telling they don’t. Very few Players are loyal to the team. Most of themnwont even be here in 2-4 year. Why would anyone block a shot or be willing to take a hit and risk there career. If players cared. Why dont they purposely tank in reg season today. Players care about there own career. Not the franchises. Pretty nihilistic there Forsy, I think that 2 five minute OT's aren't as difficult as you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 6 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Nope, I’m telling they don’t. Very few Players are loyal to the team. Most of themnwont even be here in 2-4 year. Why would anyone block a shot or be willing to take a hit and risk there career. If players cared. Why dont they purposely tank in reg season today. Players care about there own career. Not the franchises. I heard (I think?) Ray Ferraro say something recently about the European players he played with not having as much an issue with moving from team to team as the NA players. I wonder if that feeling has evolved to include the guys from all over now? Sure, the top guys are committed to winning Cups on their current teams, but how many guys is that across the whole league? It's an attitude that is certainly there now, but (IMHAO) didn't used to be so prevalent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdgraham Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Hairy Kneel said: Baers will get a better linemate to help him score more. Hutton's not going. The draft picks will be out in the open with no more criticism of league tampering. The thing is imagine if Pittsburgh or Chicago miss the playoffs this year and the league did this, they would likely win and then get the first overall pick? How is that fair? this system rewards the best team that didn't make the playoffs essentially with the first overall pick well leaving the worst team with probably the lowest pick of all non playoff teams... This doesn't make sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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