smithers joe Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 the bottom line for me, is that green wanted him. with his speed, if he fails as a d-man, he might make a great forward. pouliot was likened to delzotto when he was drafted. cdc use to complain that our gm's never gambled or took chances on players, now the complain because they have. good luck pouliot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 1 hour ago, kloubek said: I agree Pedan didn't have any value. But I'm not going to call it a win, and it lies in that 4th pick. Benning has already proven to be a good drafter, and Pouliot has already proven he is unlikely to reach his ceiling. Reading HFboards, Penguins fans are happy to see him out of there - presumably for that exact reason. So basically, we gave up an admittedly not great player and a draft pick for the CHANCE that Pouliot might turn it around. That's a sure-fire win to you? Alrighty. The Pens fans are thinking of their investment as an eighth overall pick that hasn't worked and are bitter. We have to look at it as a 4th rounder and an AHL defenceman as our investment. That is not much for a lot of potential, even if there are more than a few warts on that frog. Imagine in a couple years if we traded OJ for a 4th rounder and AHL insurance D man how bitter people would be at OJ and Benning. The irony is if we had just kept Bennings first 4th rounder in Forsling, we wouldn't have needed this trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 2 hours ago, kloubek said: What exactly are you basing your valuation of Pouliot on? BOTH these players were not finding success in the NHL. Pedan was hoped to be a hard hitting, defensive player with a little bit of scoring ability. Clearly we didn't see much in the way of scoring from him in the NHL but he did find somewhat reasonable success in that regard in Utica. In fact, season before last he was scoring at a point-every-other-game. He just (so far) was unable to put together a game suitable for the NHL. Pouliot, on the other hand, was supposed to be a very good player... hence where he was drafted. He was more consistent at putting up a point every other game for multiple seasons, but otherwise didn't make much of an impact at the NHL level either - especially last season. And to top it off, he doesn't even play as physical of a game as Pedan does nor is he as big. Since you imply I grossly underappreciate this trade (so much so that it was worthy of a facepalm and bolding), I ask you where your statistical proof is that Pouliot is far and away better than having Pedan and the 4th? Or is it just your opinion, and you feel if people don't agree with your opinion that gives you reason to act condescending? 1 hour ago, kloubek said: I agree Pedan didn't have any value. You figure Pedan has zero value, thus it's Pouliot for a 4th round pick. As already outlined: 2 hours ago, J.R. said: Top 4 ceiling vs bottom pair ceiling. Simple as that. 19 minutes ago, stawns said: He was the CHL defenseman of the year, a two time AHL all-star and he's still only 23. I think it's reasonable to assume he's a better player than Pedan right now and he's still got a good 3 years of development left. It sounds like his problem, at the NHL level has been confidence. Now he's with a coach he knows and a coach who knows him and his game inside out. As JR said, it's certainly no guarantee he's going to put it together, but if he does, what a steal for JB All that plus the fact he's already played 67 NHL games for just a 4th round pick is hard to argue as being poor value, not to mention the very low statistical probability of 4th rounders ever making the NHL. The main point however was the constant "throwing in a pick" mantra that keeps getting drudged up, as if Benning has no idea what player valuations are and gets bent over in every trade. It could have been a 2021 7th round pick and some would still say the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithers joe Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, DrJockitch said: The Pens fans are thinking of their investment as an eighth overall pick that hasn't worked and are bitter. We have to look at it as a 4th rounder and an AHL defenceman as our investment. That is not much for a lot of potential, even if there are more than a few warts on that frog. Imagine in a couple years if we traded OJ for a 4th rounder and AHL insurance D man how bitter people would be at OJ and Benning. The irony is if we had just kept Bennings first 4th rounder in Forsling, we wouldn't have needed this trade. so what's your point? he should never make a trade? or only the ones approved by cdc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Just now, smithers joe said: so what's your point? he should never make a trade? or only the ones approved by cdc? Not at all. You should know there is never agreement on cdc much less approval. I was more saying you have to take the perspective of the Pens fans into account when you are looking at their reactions to him leaving. I really put very little stock into the value of the particularly reactionary people after these sort of moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cory40 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 4 hours ago, mll said: So you are saying Canucks lent him to London who then lent him to Finland? I think they agreed with London that the Canucks would loan him directly to Finland. There's no reason for London to be the middle man - there's no contract. 4 hours ago, pluralsight said: Is this you Jeff Paterson? 4th round picks have a 23% chance of playing at least 100 games in the NHL at best. A pretty good gamble for an 8th overall pick, 5 years ago. 4 hours ago, Alflives said: Maybe there's an Edler trade coming too? 4 hours ago, nergish said: This was my thought too. It's crazy. Only a small handful of players on this club were not 1st rounders. High end Junior players that didn't translate to the NHL. I am sure many teams ruin young players. And I am not even going to mention Edmonton. Jim Benning has fast tracked this rebuild. The results this year will show. Reminds me of Pat Quin. Imagine if Toronto was to pick up both Sedins, they would be calling Lord Stanley. This is now a young fast team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 43 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: I do find it amusing that the two main pieces being rumored to go our way from the Pens for Kesler were Puliot and Sutter, and now we have both of them anyways I find it funnier the rumours kesler squashed that trade and the pens now have 2 cuos and hes got 0. Whether that's true or not and the Pens brass actually said no it makes me smile thinking it's possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 6 minutes ago, smithers joe said: so what's your point? he should never make a trade? or only the ones approved by cdc? Mmmmm, I think you nay have hit the nail on the head there, Joe. regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey101 class Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 34 minutes ago, stawns said: He was the CHL defenseman of the year, a two time AHL all-star and he's still only 23. I think it's reasonable to assume he's a better player than Pedan right now and he's still got a good 3 years of development left. It sounds like his problem, at the NHL level has been confidence. Now he's with a coach he knows and a coach who knows him and his game inside out. As JR said, it's certainly no guarantee he's going to put it together, but if he does, what a steal for JB And dont forget he was playing for the reining defending Stanley cup champions who have some decent d-men. Lets be honest most people here complaining about have never seen the kid play. As much as I like Pedan we won this trade hands down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gameburn2 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Canorth said: Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but it looks like Pouliot was drafted at around 181 lbs. He now registers at 208 lbs. Thats and additional 27 lbs packed into a 6' frame. Not sure when or how quick he put on that wieght but it could explain some of his difficulties transferring his game to the NHL. If he can settle into that larger frame we might have something here. Send him to the Jake Virtanen Fitness Club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 34 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: One of the reasons we signed so many free agents with no no-trade clauses is so we could make moves like this and recoup the picks later. Why are people not seeing this? Pffft asset management issues of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canorth Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Just now, gameburn2 said: Send him to the Jake Virtanen Fitness Club. Hopefully just getting him away from Phil Kessel will do the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 16 minutes ago, smithers joe said: so what's your point? he should never make a trade? or only the ones approved by cdc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Building Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 8 minutes ago, Hockey101 class said: And dont forget he was playing for the reining defending Stanley cup champions who have some decent d-men. Lets be honest most people here complaining about have never seen the kid play. As much as I like Pedan we won this trade hands down. Not that it matters, but he didn't fit into the Pens playoff plans at all last year so clearly there are some issues with his play. It just comes down to what JB felt the lineup was missing so he moved a guy who was slowly trending upwards as a stay at home type dman with little to no offensive upside for a dman whose skills in his own zone are lacking, but has the ability to move the puck really well at both ends of the ice as well as higher offensive ceiling. Trades don't really have to be wins if each team improves their roster where they feel a hole exists. Perhaps Pouliot will regain his form and show why he was drafted 8th overall, in which case this could be viewed as steal, but it could be several years before we can say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NHL97OneTimer Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 I was really hoping that Pedan was going to work out because his size, shot and ability to be abrasive would have been nice. With that said, I'm really happy with this trade considering DP's skill level. He's only 23! It's common knowledge that defensemen take longer to adapt to the NHL, so we should be thrilled with the upside in this trade. My hope is that we judge this trade in 2-3 years, not 2-3 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 6 hours ago, apollo said: But in reality... Pens were just gonna waive Pouliot eh? Good asset management by Rutherford to get a 4th and Pedan I don't mind the risk from Jimbo either. 6 hours ago, 'NucK™ said: How are people happy about this? We could've just picked the guy up off waivers... You really think we were the only team interested? I highly doubt he would have ended up on waivers. If there's a player benning wants he pulls the trigger. No point in sitting around hoping. Benning don't mess around. Great move turning a depth guy on waivers into a 23 year old puck mover with lots of upside. Couldn't imagine if we traded Juolevi in 4 years for a 4th and a guy like Pedan. Fans would be losing their minds. Pens fans are kidding themselves if they're not a little bit nervous about this trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigerian Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 I see this as a good move regardless if DP even plays for the Canucks. Having him QB the Utica PP and even his offence alone will be a huge bonus for the Utica squad. Having the young guys grow together in a winning culture and in a great home environment like Utica is great for development IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithers joe Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 he obviously has problems that has made pittsburg give up on him. if green can help him progress, then the deal will be very good. if not, life goes on. let's give them a chance to build up his confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 47 minutes ago, DrJockitch said: The Pens fans are thinking of their investment as an eighth overall pick that hasn't worked and are bitter. We have to look at it as a 4th rounder and an AHL defenceman as our investment. That is not much for a lot of potential, even if there are more than a few warts on that frog. Imagine in a couple years if we traded OJ for a 4th rounder and AHL insurance D man how bitter people would be at OJ and Benning. The irony is if we had just kept Bennings first 4th rounder in Forsling, we wouldn't have needed this trade. I agree about the investment on our our side not being that much. Don't really agree about forsling though. After the serious overhyping on here, he's come back down to earth. Looking like a fringe NHLer at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Remember when people wanted him coming back as part of a rumoured Kesler trade? He wouldn't be the first player to benefit from a change of scenery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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