[Proposal] Bringing Home the BC Boy

[Tre Mac]

Canucks wanted Ekblad, they never wanted Reinhart.  Where do people get this from?  Just because he's from BC?

4 hours ago, Pears said:

Just like how Dane Fox was a better player than Drouin right?

He's still got a year left on that proclamation

[Canucklehead73]

If buffalo wants to flush reinhart it's to a contender who doesn't need the 2 2nd rounders at the moment.

 

Its counter productive to trade Lind and a second in our position unless it's for a sure fire upgrade which reinhart is not.

 

As for trading Baer for a pick or as a package to upgrade I'm having no issues with that concept.

[kloubek]

I do like the idea overall, but I don't think Lind is the guy we want to give up.  He plays with an edge and I think we're going to want that in our top lines - especially as Reinhart... well... doesn't have an edge so much.  Lind looks to me to be an excellent choice for 2nd line RW.

[BCNate]

Buffalo will view Reinhart the same way we do Horvat.  No way they trade him for a borderline top 6 winger, and an unproven prospect.

[JeremyCuddles]

People keep saying Reinhart rides shotgun to Eichel. Last I checked he plays primarily with O'Reilly. We have a Buffalo Sabres fan around here don't we? I'd like for someone that actually knows something about Buffalo to comment on Reinhart's deployment rather than people that just want to dump on him for little to no reason.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

I'd rather have a flux capacitor + Delorean car + crazy mad scientist (Alf don't count as he's just crazy mad....) to go back & get *Paul Reinhart* in his prime & bring him back to present day.

[timberz21]

a few things that doesn't really make sense to me:

 

First, you say Reinhart's progression and development has been slowed by losing and playing on a bad team.   Coming to Vancouver is suppose to change that?

 

Reinhart was a 2nd overall, and like you said...you expect him to be a 70 pts player.  With such a pedigree, he was suppose to be a player bringing the Sabres out of the bottom.  I believe he had to make the Sabres better and not the Sabres building a better team around him (It's not all on him though, Eichel and O'Reilly are also big parts of this team.)

 

Also, if the Sabres can't afford him, why should we overpay for a 50 pts players and top 6 forward.  WIth the way Lind has been progressing, I can see him being a 40 pts player with the Canucks in a year or 2.  I'd rather have Lind on an ELC at 40 pts per year, than overpay (4-5-6M?) for Reinhart who might or might not be a 60 pts player.

 

If the Canucks would be a playoff team on the rise missing a top 6 player, then yes I would do this trade, because we couldn't wait on Kole Lind to step up.  But right now, Trading a rising prospect for a stalling young player, is not the way to go IMO.

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, timberz21 said:

a few things that doesn't really make sense to me:

 

First, you say Reinhart's progression and development has been slowed by losing and playing on a bad team.   Coming to Vancouver is suppose to change that?

 

Reinhart was a 2nd overall, and like you said...you expect him to be a 70 pts player.  With such a pedigree, he was suppose to be a player bringing the Sabres out of the bottom.  I believe he had to make the Sabres better and not the Sabres building a better team around him (It's not all on him though, Eichel and O'Reilly are also big parts of this team.)

 

Also, if the Sabres can't afford him, why should we overpay for a 50 pts players and top 6 forward.  WIth the way Lind has been progressing, I can see him being a 40 pts player with the Canucks in a year or 2.  I'd rather have Lind on an ELC at 40 pts per year, than overpay (4-5-6M?) for Reinhart who might or might not be a 60 pts player.

 

If the Canucks would be a playoff team on the rise missing a top 6 player, then yes I would do this trade, because we couldn't wait on Kole Lind to step up.  But right now, Trading a rising prospect for a stalling young player, is not the way to go IMO.

Yakupov was the first player picked in his year.  Draft position means nothing after the games start to be played.  Only performance matters, and Sam is not performing at a level we want, for the money he is going to get paid.  I think the Sabres overpaying Eichel is going to throw their entire Cap out of whack.  

[komodo0921]

11 hours ago, NHL'er said:

Trade

To Buffalo:

Sven Baertschi

Kole Lind 

† 2019 Second Round Pick.

 

To Vancouver:
Sam Reinhart

 

Losing Kole Lind sucks. Big time. But we get Sam Reinhart who will slot in solidly as our second line centre. He's been on an awful Sabres team and the losing has really affected his development. A few years back when Benning first took over, he had been trying to trade up to #1 and it was rumoured to grab Sam Reinhart. I really believe Sam has the potential to reach 70 points on a consistent basis and be a great 1B centre. A change of scenery and playing with talent like Pettersson could make it happen. We also don't know whether Pettersson can thrive as a centre in the NHL since he has been playing wing for the majority of the past two seasons. 

 

Sam has found himself a bit redundant in Buffalo who probably can't afford his new contract. His development has been disappointing partly due to playing on a losing team and atmosphere in Buffalo. With Eichel, O'Reilly and Mittelstadt as their centres for the future, Buffalo doesn't need any more centres, especially one who will be looking for a notable pay raise. They get a cheap scoring replacement in Baertschi and a solid A-  prospect who could step in as soon as the season after next. The Second Round pick sweetens the deal. 

 

Sign / Re-Sign

Calvin De Haan - 3 years @ $12,000,000. $4,000,000 AAV. 

 

De Haan solidifies our second pairing and hopefully improves our awful defence from last year. The Islanders will likely move on from him given his recent shoulder injury and the fact that he'll be seeking longer term and a higher pay. We do take a risk especially since he's had a history of shoulder injuries but on a 3 year deal, it's a risk worth taking.

 

Markus Granlund - 1 Year @ 2,000,000. 

 

Sam Reinhart - 3 Years @ $12,000,000. $4,000,000 AAV. 

 

Tentative Lineup

 

Leipsic-Horvat-Boeser

Pettersson-Reinhart-Virtanen

Eriksson-Sutter-Granlund

Motte-Gaudette-Goldobin

(Gagner)(Gaunce)

 

Edler-Tanev

De Haan-Stecher

Juolevi-Gudbranson

(Del Zotto)(Pouliot)

*Hutton

 

Markstrom

Demko

 

 

† If Needed to Consummate the Trade. 

*Hutton re-finds his game and works on his offence in Utica. 

 

 

 

I can see Sam Reinhardt making sense here. 

Follows the 2-way theme Benning's trying to implement, good offensively, is in the desired age range, and he is a hometown boy.

Like Bo, he's improved every season which makes me wonder if it's even realistic that he'd be available.

However, The mix in Buffalo is a bad one at the moment and I could see them being interested in a change of direction.

Though the price hurts, I'd do it.

The rewards could be big but, once again, I bring back the question of; Would they? 

 

[-AJ-]

I'll address the trade, as the signing is harder to evaluate. 

 

IMO, Baertschi is being too undervalued here. As I said on the status update with a similar proposal, I think Baertschi plus a second is probably close enough in value. I'd say we'd have to add a bit more, so I'd guess that Baertschi, a 2nd, and a 4th might do it. With Lind in the proposal, it's basically two seconds and Baertschi; not to mention two high seconds, which is noteworthy.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd be excited to have Reinhart here, but I wouldn't give up that much to do it. 

[Nucker 67]

Pettersson will be the #2C.

[butters]

I doubt very many people that have roots and family here would want to play here. too many unpleasant fanatics

[NHL'er]

36 minutes ago, timberz21 said:

a few things that doesn't really make sense to me:

 

First, you say Reinhart's progression and development has been slowed by losing and playing on a bad team.   Coming to Vancouver is suppose to change that?

 

Reinhart was a 2nd overall, and like you said...you expect him to be a 70 pts player.  With such a pedigree, he was suppose to be a player bringing the Sabres out of the bottom.  I believe he had to make the Sabres better and not the Sabres building a better team around him (It's not all on him though, Eichel and O'Reilly are also big parts of this team.)

 

Also, if the Sabres can't afford him, why should we overpay for a 50 pts players and top 6 forward.  WIth the way Lind has been progressing, I can see him being a 40 pts player with the Canucks in a year or 2.  I'd rather have Lind on an ELC at 40 pts per year, than overpay (4-5-6M?) for Reinhart who might or might not be a 60 pts player.

 

If the Canucks would be a playoff team on the rise missing a top 6 player, then yes I would do this trade, because we couldn't wait on Kole Lind to step up.  But right now, Trading a rising prospect for a stalling young player, is not the way to go IMO.

Addressing your points in turn: 

1. Yes a change of scenery has done wonders for other players in the past. Being in a city that he's familiar and comfortable with as well as a new start with a coaching staff that will let him play at centre and management that has confidence in him is meant to help.  

 

2. Tied in with the first point. No single play brings a team "out of the bottom". See Connor McDavid. See Jack Eichel. Very often being on a crap team makes you lose confidence and be a crap player when it's not your fault. See Taylor Hall. See Jordan Eberle. 

 

3. We won't be overpaying at $4m for a second line centre who has the potential to develop into something more. A lot of people want to sign 32 year old Tyler Bozak and that will cost at least $4m. It's clear we need someone to step in to play centre in the Top 6 next season. Why not let that be Reinhart who is only 22? Also I'm confused because $4m is hardly anything these days (See Eriksson at $6m). Also Kole Lind is a winger - a position we have quite a few prospects lined up already. See Jasek, Virtanen, Lockwood, Goldobin, Gadjovich etc. Again, losing him would suck, but it's a position of strength for us on the wings. And you need good centres to win in this league. 

 

 

[NHL'er]

10 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Pettersson will be the #2C.

Next season? Highly unlikely. Benning made it clear he would start on the wing.

Furthermore, Pettersson has played on the wing for most of his time in Sweden. What makes you think he can switch over to centre within the next two seasons?

If he does eventually become a centre, Reinhart can switch to the wing (and vice versa). Having two forwards who can play centre on a line is invaluable in the playoffs.

[NHL'er]

36 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Yakupov was the first player picked in his year.  Draft position means nothing after the games start to be played.  Only performance matters, and Sam is not performing at a level we want, for the money he is going to get paid.  I think the Sabres overpaying Eichel is going to throw their entire Cap out of whack.  

This is the entire premise behind the proposal. Obviously if he was performing well in Buffalo, they wouldn't give him up. But for the reasons I've mentioned, I think he can turn it around in a new environment. I don't really care that he was a second overall pick. His stats in Juniors was impressive. His World Juniors was impressive. His first season in the League was impressive. And then he hit a slump and his confidence has been taken down the crap hole in Buffalo. There's still a player there, and given Buffalo's soon-to-be whacked cap and depth at Centre, it's the perfect time to target him and slightly overpay if we need to. 

[NHL'er]

1 hour ago, BCNate said:

Buffalo will view Reinhart the same way we do Horvat.  No way they trade him for a borderline top 6 winger, and an unproven prospect.

No I think Buffalo views Eichel the same way we view Horvat (although they'll be paying a lot more for Eichel). 

Now you might argue the asking price might be slightly higher, but Reinhart hasn't been getting it done in Buffalo and they have O'Reilly and Mittelstadt down the middle.  

Mittelstadt will be due for a raise in the year after next - I don't necessarily see Sam fitting in Buffalo's long term plans. 

[Vinny in Vancouver]

11 hours ago, GarthButcher5 said:

I would do it Reinhart is 22 years old and trending up, soon to be a 70 point guy.......Bare cheese may have peaked, Kind is unproven and you won't get a better player with the second rounder.

 

Problem is, Buffalo wouldn't be looking to trade a future piece of the puzzle would they? There would have to be a 1st involved for them to bite so then it is not worth it.

It seems that whenever I read about Buffalo writers writing about their C corps, they don't mention Sam any more. It's always: Jack, ROR, Casey. Makes me wonder if they think he's a pice of the puzzle.

I would do the trade as well although I think Buffalo would prefer to have somebody like Tanev to help out their D. You know what - let's give them back Nilsson and call it even. 

 

[Vinny in Vancouver]

4 hours ago, hlinkas wrister said:

Bo Horvat already plays the 2C role, I'd rather keep Lind and draft/develop our own 1C.

I used to be one of these "Bo is a 2C" guys, but this season, he has proved that he is a 1C. Imho, his playmaking, vision, and skating has reached the next level. He is regularly able to make plays from nothing. Despite being on a terrible team, he still managed to almost get to an even plus-minus. He may not be as dynamic as some of the other C's, but he's definitely comparable to a lot of the other teams' 1C.

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, vinny_in_vancouver said:

I used to be one of these "Bo is a 2C" guys, but this season, he has proved that he is a 1C. Imho, his playmaking, vision, and skating has reached the next level. He is regularly able to make plays from nothing. Despite being on a terrible team, he still managed to almost get to an even plus-minus. He may not be as dynamic as some of the other C's, but he's definitely comparable to a lot of the other teams' 1C.

Totally agree.  If we did get Sammy Boy, he would be (at best) a third liner on our team.  That's not what we need, for the money he will expect, and the cost of trading to get him.  I'd much rather we traded Sutter + Tanev to the Oilers for Draisatl.  Now he has the potential to be a top line, play making, center Sammy Boy can't be.

[cbdoubleu]

13 hours ago, NHL'er said:

Trade

To Buffalo:

Sven Baertschi

Kole Lind 

† 2019 Second Round Pick.

 

To Vancouver:
Sam Reinhart

 

 

It's an interesting idea. Reinhart was great the 2nd half of the season (i feel like 35 of his 50 points were in the last 40 games), but has yet to really show that he can change a game. He's probably not a franchise player, but coming into his prime years, and on a new team, he could very easily go from a 50 point top 6 guy to a legit first line player putting up 70-80.

 

If that was Buffalo's ask I'd do it, but I think might take someone like Tanev who they could really use, and I could live with giving up a conditonal 1st instead of Lind, but the way the season ended for Reinhart, the price just went up because he started to look like he was on the verge.

 

I don't know if I'd be comfortable giving up:

 

Chris Tanev

Kole Lind

Protected 1st round pick.

 

Then you're realling banking on the hope that Reinhart didn't just shine down the stretch because everyone stopped caring when they had to play Buffalo, and that he really is going to become a difference maker. It's a risk. Someone would have had to have done their homework on Reinhart and seen some idication that you're not just paying for the name and the draft position. Otherwise there are other 25 goal scorers we could go after that could have a bigger impact on our ability to win and compete physically.