Victim Mentality - Universities teaching to see bias here there is none

[Baer.]

4 minutes ago, Solinar said:

  As for minorities standing up, and demanding equality, until you see each race equally represented across the spectrum, you're going to have this.  Because right off the hop, the system to the south of us isn't fair.  There isn't equal footing to even start, and for a lot, they've got to fight hard to even get the little they have.  Rampant racism and bias in hiring, in school, in life, has set up a system toxic enough that it would take decades  to fix.  Here's hoping that somewhere along the lines people realise that humans are the same regardless of colour, hair colour, eye colour, or anything else a person could possibly use to arbitrarily explain why some accident of birth has relegated them to the top of the pile.

You will never see each race equally represented.

[Solinar]

1 minute ago, Baer. said:

You will never see each race equally represented.

Probably not, but it shouldn't have the skew it currently does in a fair system.  But we shall probably never see it in the States.  I take it like the aboriginal representation in Canada.  For some it is better than others, but for a lot, they start off at a deficit in life, some because of the system, some because of the role they take in said system.  It is a problem prevalent throughout the world, and it is easy to just throw up our arms and say this is always the way it is going to be.  But we should attempt to outgrow it, even if it is going to take as long as it took to get to this point.

[thejazz97]

25 minutes ago, Baer. said:

Technically speaking, whites are minorities on the world scale, so I always found calling any race that isn't white a minority a bit self centered.

True, but white people are majorities in our countries (Canada and America).

 

On the grand scheme of things, race should mean nothing, because we’re all human. Unfortunately, there’s a bit more context to it than that, and it’s why we do need at least some equity.

[Ilunga]

It seems so simple to me. Treat others the way you expect to be treated yourself.

[Tortorella's Rant]

There is also biases against hiring American and Canadian nationals too, in general. Schooling. White, black, brown, whomever. Including university. Here, for example, foreign students always got first dibs on classes and they are heavily numbered in information technology fields where I delved in. What this implies is that if you are a local student attending your own university, you may be bumped from a class because a foreigner took your position because of university policy. Happened more than once to other students I knew of. Companies in both countries outsource IT and whatever else they can all the time to save money. Why should I be paid 80k a year when Jugdish in Bangladesh can be recruited for 13 dollars a day. Rarely do people want to talk about these things - usually this topic of biased practices is another opportunity to $&!# on the white man. 

[Jester13]

2 minutes ago, Tortorella's Rant said:

There is also biases against hiring American and Canadian nationals too, in general. Schooling. White, black, brown, whomever. Including university. Here, for example, foreign students always got first dibs on classes and they are heavily numbered in information technology fields where I delved in. What this implies is that if you are a local student attending your own university, you may be bumped from a class because a foreigner took your position because of university policy. Happened more than once to other students I knew of. Companies in both countries outsource IT and whatever else they can all the time to save money. Why should I be paid 80k a year when Jugdish in Bangladesh can be recruited for 13 dollars a day. Rarely do people want to talk about these things - usually this topic of biased practices is another opportunity to $&!# on the white man. 

I find this hard to believe. Can you elaborate with evidence? Where is this? What is the policy?

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Tortorella's Rant said:

There is also biases against hiring American and Canadian nationals too, in general. Schooling. White, black, brown, whomever. Including university. Here, for example, foreign students always got first dibs on classes and they are heavily numbered in information technology fields where I delved in. What this implies is that if you are a local student attending your own university, you may be bumped from a class because a foreigner took your position because of university policy. Happened more than once to other students I knew of. Companies in both countries outsource IT and whatever else they can all the time to save money. Why should I be paid 80k a year when Jugdish in Bangladesh can be recruited for 13 dollars a day. Rarely do people want to talk about these things - usually this topic of biased practices is another opportunity to $&!# on the white man. 

You raise an interesting point about our Canadian universities filling seats s with foreign students ahead of Canadian kids.  Could this policy of action be partly due to foreign students paying more money for their seats in classes?  

[Tortorella's Rant]

5 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

I find this hard to believe. Can you elaborate with evidence? Where is this? What is the policy?

Not really. Not now anyway. This came up in the conversation with the course counselor years ago where this was explained. This is true of where I attended anyway, I cannot speak for others, but I wouldn't be surprised. Because of the greater financial contribution they are making (they are paying more to attend), they effectively get first choice in classes. 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

I find this hard to believe. Can you elaborate with evidence? Where is this? What is the policy?

It’s Anecdotal.  From what he has experienced.  What university is going to publish such negative stats?  I believe the poster raised a serious point about the foreign students talking local kids’ seats in classes.  I see that practice as striclstrictly financial.  That’s a money grab maybe? 

[Jester13]

Just now, Tortorella's Rant said:

Not really. Not now anyway. This came up in the conversation with the course counselor years ago where this was explained. This is true of where I attended anyway, I cannot speak for others, but I wouldn't be surprised. Because of the greater financial contribution they are making (they are paying more to attend), they effectively get first choice in classes. 

Sorry, but you/your counsellor are 100% incorrect. I work for a university and am well-versed in admissions/advising/recruiting, etc., and the reality is that students get to choose courses first based on their GPA... i.e. merit based. 

[Solinar]

I've heard about this too, as foreign students typically pay more for classes.  And the thought of it has been around for a long time.  Whether or not this is true and able to be justified is another thing.  But sometimes all you have to do is follow the money...

[Jester13]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

It’s Anecdotal.  From what he has experienced.  What university is going to publish such negative stats?  I believe the poster raised a serious point about the foreign students talking local kids’ seats in classes.  I see that practice as striclstrictly financial.  That’s a money grab maybe? 

This also is 100% incorrect. Universities in Canada are all only allowed to have a certain percentage of their student body of international students, which is a restriction from the government due to limited funding available. If a Canadian school reaches the limit, they have to close down admission to international students for that intake session. 

[Jester13]

1 minute ago, Solinar said:

I've heard about this too, as foreign students typically pay more for classes.  And the thought of it has been around for a long time.  Whether or not this is true and able to be justified is another thing.  But sometimes all you have to do is follow the money...

The reason why international students pay more is because our government does not subsidize them like they do us. Were Canadian citizens or PRs not subsidized, we would all pay the same as an international student. Now you, and everyone else, has some clear insight rather than hearsay. 

[Master 112]

I don't understand why the author of the article thinks universities need to strictly encourage their students' intellectual development and not foster other aspects of their character and being. Many people who are enrolled in a university program are at a vulnerable and ever-changing point in their lives, some of whom might be dealing with issues primarily grounded in their identity, culture and other things not necessarily pertinent to academics.

 

Universities today, with post-secondary education more popular than ever + available to more people than it has been in the past, absolutely should have programs and services dedicated to helping students with more personal issues than has been traditionally the case. Is it, for example, wrong for universities to have counselling departments/resources for students to reach out to when in crisis? To me they're all-but-obligated to have these.

 

Higher education today is definitely about creating good workers, people and participants in their communities--how are they going to do this without taking seriously and attacking all of the problems their young and growing clients might be experiencing?

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

This also is 100% incorrect. Universities in Canada are all only allowed to have a certain percentage of their student body of international students, which is a restriction from the government due to limited funding available. If a Canadian school reaches the limit, they have to close down admission to international students for that intake session. 

 

3 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

The reason why international students pay more is because our government does not subsidize them like they do us. Were Canadian citizens or PRs not subsidized, we would all pay the same as an international student. Now you, and everyone else, has some clear insight rather than hearsay. 

Sounds like a lot of political propaganda to this old alien.  Foreign students pay more.  More foreign students equals more money for the university, and less (if Canadian students are subsidized by the Feds) out of pocket for our Government.  That’s a bad mixture.  Seems to me that there is too much to gain for both the universities and the government to get in more foreign students, no?  

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, 112 said:

I don't understand why the author of the article thinks universities need to strictly encourage their students' intellectual development and not foster other aspects of their character and being. Many people who are enrolled in a university program are at a vulnerable and ever-changing point in their lives, some of whom might be dealing with issues primarily grounded in their identity, culture and other things not necessarily pertinent to academics.

 

Universities today, with post-secondary education more popular than ever + available to more people than it has been in the past, absolutely should have programs and services dedicated to helping students with more personal issues than has been traditionally the case. Is it, for example, wrong for universities to have counselling departments/resources for students to reach out to when in crisis? To me they're all-but-obligated to have these.

 

Higher education today is definitely about creating good workers, people and participants in their communities--how are they going to do this without taking seriously and attacking all of the problems their young and growing clients might be experiencing?

Maybe we need to go back to the concept of university years as not just being a means to an end?  

[Jester13]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

 

Sounds like a lot of political propaganda to this old alien.  Foreign students pay more.  More foreign students equals more money for the university, and less (if Canadian students are subsidized by the Feds) out of pocket for our Government.  That’s a bad mixture.  Seems to me that there is too much to gain for both the universities and the government to get in more foreign students, no?  

You're missing a little bit here, Alf. Foreign students pay around three times that of domestic students because domestics are subsidized, but this doesn't mean the university doesn't receive the same amount - they do. Universities simply do not make more money off international students - international students just pay the whole amount themselves. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Jester13 said:

You're missing a little bit here, Alf. Foreign students pay around three times that of domestic students because domestics are subsidized, but this doesn't mean the university doesn't receive the same amount - they do. Universities simply do not make more money off international students - international students just pay the whole amount themselves. 

I see the math.  However, what incentive does our government have, in this circumstance, to not encourage more foreign students?  More foreign students equals tax dollars saved.

[Jester13]

Just now, Alflives said:

I see the math.  However, what incentive does our government have, in this circumstance, to not encourage more foreign students?  More foreign students equals tax dollars saved.

The incentive is that a diverse population enriches the experience for everyone to have different perspectives, culture, etc. 

 

The other thing to note about Canadian education specifically is that our universities have a limit to the amount of international students they can admit. So if a school reaches the limit (I think it's around 20% of the student body, but I'd have to double check), that school is forced to shut down international admission for that specific intake session. 

 

[RUPERTKBD]

25 minutes ago, Alflives said:

You raise an interesting point about our Canadian universities filling seats s with foreign students ahead of Canadian kids.  Could this policy of action be partly due to foreign students paying more money for their seats in classes?  

As someone who works at a College, I can tell you that there is no such policy that I'm aware of. We have several international students, but no Canadian students are "bumped" to make room for them. In fact, we have actively recruited in places like India and Nigeria in an effort to bolster enrollment.