[Trade] Canucks trade Jonathan Dahlen to Sharks for Linus Karlsson

[theo5789]

20 minutes ago, The Lock said:

So there's no way that Dahlen could have said something he didn't mean, or didn't know how to describe what he wanted to JP Berry if he didn't know what he wanted? That's what I mean by lost in translation.

You don't think Barry (or one of his affiliates) didn't have a sit down to discuss how they would like to proceed? It's not a game of telephone where Dahlen says something and it gets passed off immediately to the next person until it gets to Benning. Dahlen must've had talks and decided that this is not the best scenario for him and wanted something done. I think they were hoping to use it as a tactic to get into the NHL and Benning called his bluff and traded him.

 

All we know is there was something awry between Dahlen and the team and he was very quickly dealt. The team has shown to be patient with their prospects and generally the sentiment is that the prospects appreciate that the team respects their decisions (eg Hughes and Lockwood going back to college for another year, etc). Dahlen had been in NA for half a season and the team wanted him here last year too but to start in the AHL before he went back to Sweden. I'm going to lean towards Dahlen having some say in wanting out. Has Dahlen fired his agent if it was a huge misunderstanding?

Edited April 12, 2019 by theo5789

[The Lock]

42 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

You don't think Barry (or one of his affiliates) didn't have a sit down to discuss how they would like to proceed? It's not a game of telephone where Dahlen says something and it gets passed off immediately to the next person until it gets to Benning. Dahlen must've had talks and decided that this is not the best scenario for him and wanted something done. I think they were hoping to use it as a tactic to get into the NHL and Benning called his bluff and traded him.

 

All we know is there was something awry between Dahlen and the team and he was very quickly dealt. The team has shown to be patient with their prospects and generally the sentiment is that the prospects appreciate that the team respects their decisions (eg Hughes and Lockwood going back to college for another year, etc). Dahlen had been in NA for half a season and the team wanted him here last year too but to start in the AHL before he went back to Sweden. I'm going to lean towards Dahlen having some say in wanting out. Has Dahlen fired his agent if it was a huge misunderstanding?

Is there evidence of them sitting down or having a phone call or is this just an assumption being made? Clearly, there would have been talks, but that doesn't mean a miscommunication couldn't have been had. We are literally talking about humans beings. In a perfect world, your scenario would hold true. This is not a perfect world. It's great and all that you think an agency can't make a mistake, but you guys are literally just basing this on what you feel JP Barry is. Have any of you stepped inside of that agency? Have any of you seen how actual negotiations are handled? Truth is, do you really know whether or not they were phone calls or actually sitting down? If you do then please enlighten me on your experience with the agency. Otherwise, I'm just going to stand by what I've been saying with "anyone can make mistakes", because it's true and if you don't believe me, then read about the banking crisis 10 years ago in the states (of which we are talking about banks which should really even be less susceptible to mistakes than JP Barry's agency).

 

The second paragraph of yours I can agree in that there were clearly things happening with the team. Keep in mind, my premise here is not that the agency made the mistake or not. I'm saying there's no evidence to state the agency did or didn't make a mistake. There's no evidence at all for either side. We are all just speculating. No one's stance here has solid evidence to support since we don't really know what happened entirely.

Edited April 12, 2019 by The Lock

[Dazzle]

49 minutes ago, The Lock said:

Is there evidence of them sitting down or having a phone call or is this just an assumption being made? Clearly, there would have been talks, but that doesn't mean a miscommunication couldn't have been had. We are literally talking about humans beings. In a perfect world, your scenario would hold true. This is not a perfect world. It's great and all that you think an agency can't make a mistake, but you guys are literally just basing this on what you feel JP Barry is. Have any of you stepped inside of that agency? Have any of you seen how actual negotiations are handled? Truth is, do you really know whether or not they were phone calls or actually sitting down? If you do then please enlighten me on your experience with the agency. Otherwise, I'm just going to stand by what I've been saying with "anyone can make mistakes", because it's true and if you don't believe me, then read about the banking crisis 10 years ago in the states (of which we are talking about banks which should really even be less susceptible to mistakes than JP Barry's agency).

 

The second paragraph of yours I can agree in that there were clearly things happening with the team. Keep in mind, my premise here is not that the agency made the mistake or not. I'm saying there's no evidence to state the agency did or didn't make a mistake. There's no evidence at all for either side. We are all just speculating. No one's stance here has solid evidence to support since we don't really know what happened entirely.

There is as much evidence that Dahlen asked to be traded as there is about your scenario that Dahlen got "misinterpreted". So we don't have "proof".

 

Some of us believe that Benning should get the benefit of the doubt based on reputation alone. He has previously been honest and transparent (as far as we can see). He COULD very much lie about this situation, as much as Linden lied about not being contacted by the Canucks. But it is less likely.

 

Furthermore, JP Barry has a reputation to uphold and it isn't his first rodeo. He very well could have mismanaged this situation, but I think it is less likely.

 

Meanwhile, Dahlen has been traded twice in about two years. Granted, the Canucks probably wanted Dahlen to begin with. I would assume that Pettersson was long in their plans when choosing Dahlen.

 

Do you believe Dahlen or do you believe JP Barry and Benning?

 

IMHO... it should be easy.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Dazzle

[MeanSeanBean]

2 hours ago, The Lock said:

Teenagers will use the phrase "I don't think so" when they feel guilty, so while I see where you are coming from with this, it also doesn't really say much of anything either.

 

What really is going to be the big question here is "what was his body language while saying "I don't know"? Was it sincere as if he actually doesn't know or was it a quick "I don't know" to cover things up. We don't know this answer from just words. He did mention in that same section of the interview how he was struggling though, but that could also be taken either way. All of this is literally going to be speculation, and I don't see any statement in this thread being definitive on whether or not he asked for a trade. Even if we focus on the "professionalism" of the agent, there's also the fact that Dahlen has to communicate with said agent. Even that could have been lost in translation.

 

Also, having media in front of you tends to make you a different person and typically makes one hold back information to begin with, let alone when you have to cover something up. It doesn't matter if they are 21 or 52. The spotlight changes people more often than not.

I still think what I'm saying stands even if we go with your definition. He could feel guilty that he caused a rift and got himself traded, even if he did not request it. For a young player with high level skill to be traded twice it makes be believe that there is at least some attitude problems with the player.

 

The bottom line is this seems to be a he said she said. He says he never asked to be traded, the Canucks organization says he did. My opinion will not waiver unless further proof comes forward.

[theo5789]

41 minutes ago, The Lock said:

Is there evidence of them sitting down or having a phone call or is this just an assumption being made? Clearly, there would have been talks, but that doesn't mean a miscommunication couldn't have been had. We are literally talking about humans beings. In a perfect world, your scenario would hold true. This is not a perfect world. It's great and all that you think an agency can't make a mistake, but you guys are literally just basing this on what you feel JP Barry is. Have any of you stepped inside of that agency? Have any of you seen how actual negotiations are handled? Truth is, do you really know whether or not they were phone calls or actually sitting down? If you do then please enlighten me on your experience with the agency. Otherwise, I'm just going to stand by what I've been saying with "anyone can make mistakes", because it's true and if you don't believe me, then read about the banking crisis 10 years ago in the states (of which we are talking about banks which should really even be less susceptible to mistakes than JP Barry's agency).

 

The second paragraph of yours I can agree in that there were clearly things happening with the team. Keep in mind, my premise here is not that the agency made the mistake or not. I'm saying there's no evidence to state the agency did or didn't make a mistake. There's no evidence at all for either side. We are all just speculating. No one's stance here has solid evidence to support since we don't really know what happened entirely.

I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying here and all we can go with is speculation. But we can go with the facts in hand and "speculate". The facts are that Sekeres came out with a tweet or something (which I wrongfully dismissed as false) suggesting something has soured between Dahlen and the Canucks/Utica. Not long after Dahlen is actually traded. If there was a miscommunication, generally the client will be unhappy if things didn't unfold the way they would've liked. As far as I know Dahlen is still a client under their agency. This could be a career/life altering decision that was made on his behalf, so I don't know about Dahlen, but I personally would be upset and dismiss them if I did not suggest the possibility of being moved (you'd think Dahlen would want to play with his buddy Pettersson at some point and the Canucks advertised them as a future Canuck duo, so I can't imagine the Canucks just jumping the gun here to offload him).

 

Mistakes and misunderstandings happen of course. Look at the Patrik Berglund situation where there appeared to be some miscommunication or errors as to which teams he would've been allowed to trade to and was traded to a destination that wasn't desired by him. Berglund not long after gave up millions because his passion for hockey was in question after how it played out.

 

We cannot pinpoint where the breakdown happened until we get more of the story, if ever, but I'd be shocked if either Dahlen or his agency didn't demand a trade (whether it was a tactic or not). I think the original point was Dahlen seemingly suggesting that he is unsure what had happened, but did admit that he was struggling there. It's unfortunate how it all played out in the end as I was excited for Dahlen to be a Canuck and I still hope he can get his career back on track, but it's almost certain that a trade request was made whether it was from Dahlen himself or the agency (wrongfully?) doing so.

[theo5789]

6 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

There is as much evidence that Dahlen asked to be traded as there is about your scenario that Dahlen got "misinterpreted". So we don't have "proof".

 

Some of us believe that Benning should get the benefit of the doubt based on reputation alone. He has previously been honest and transparent (as far as we can see). He COULD very much lie about this situation, as much as Linden lied about not being contacted by the Canucks. But it is less likely.

 

Furthermore, JP Barry has a reputation to uphold and it isn't his first rodeo. He very well could have mismanaged this situation, but I think it is less likely.

 

Meanwhile, Dahlen has been traded twice in about two years. Granted, the Canucks probably wanted Dahlen to begin with. I would assume that Pettersson was long in their plans when choosing Dahlen.

 

Do you believe Dahlen or do you believe JP Barry and Benning?

 

IMHO... it should be easy.

JP Barry is an agent or runs an agency, but I'm going to assume he has associates that work for him to handle the workload. Given that Dahlen is not quite a high profile player for him or his agency quite yet, perhaps he was assigned one of their newer or less experienced guys. Perhaps that associate was trying to make a name for himself thinking he could stiff arm Benning or whoever into forcing his client into NHL and upping his value earlier on. Benning took it as it coming from Dahlen himself and subsequently traded him as requested.

 

If Dahlen is convinced he did not demand a trade and Benning claims to have had a trade demand made, then this is one possibility of how it played out. It would seem to be the only way that Dahlen is still is with that agency despite the error as who he was dealing with may have been fired or assigned to another client (all assumptions though).

[canuck73_3]

2 hours ago, Dazzle said:

There is as much evidence that Dahlen asked to be traded as there is about your scenario that Dahlen got "misinterpreted". So we don't have "proof".

 

Some of us believe that Benning should get the benefit of the doubt based on reputation alone. He has previously been honest and transparent (as far as we can see). He COULD very much lie about this situation, as much as Linden lied about not being contacted by the Canucks. But it is less likely.

 

Furthermore, JP Barry has a reputation to uphold and it isn't his first rodeo. He very well could have mismanaged this situation, but I think it is less likely.

 

Meanwhile, Dahlen has been traded twice in about two years. Granted, the Canucks probably wanted Dahlen to begin with. I would assume that Pettersson was long in their plans when choosing Dahlen.

 

Do you believe Dahlen or do you believe JP Barry and Benning?

 

IMHO... it should be easy.

Well JP Barry also said that change was asked of, and Benning did too. Only Dahlen says no trade request was made.

 

2 say it was asked and 1 says no, doesn't make it all that clear that no trade request was made. 

 

Maybe it was maybe it wasn't, at the end of the day he's a mediocre player who looks like he'll never make it in the NHL, so who cares? 

[Dazzle]

30 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Well JP Barry also said that change was asked of, and Benning did too. Only Dahlen says no trade request was made.

 

2 say it was asked and 1 says no, doesn't make it all that clear that no trade request was made. 

 

Maybe it was maybe it wasn't, at the end of the day he's a mediocre player who looks like he'll never make it in the NHL, so who cares? 

Well, people will continue to repeat the story that Dahlen said he didn't want the trade. "See, he said he didn't know". Lol.

[Rob_Zepp]

On 2/25/2019 at 12:54 PM, HerrDrFunk said:

Wow, Benning. Way to flush away the good will from the Gudbranson trade in 15 minutes. Dahlen was just starting to bring it together. 

Perhaps Benning was simply knowing this kid simply didn't have the stuff to stick it out for the North American game?    

[HerrDrFunk]

2 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Perhaps Benning was simply knowing this kid simply didn't have the stuff to stick it out for the North American game?    

Appears so! At the time though, Dahlen really was starting to string some strong play in Utica together. So I was a bit blindsided and miffed by the trade.

[Mount-Canuck-More]

Good move JB. I still wanted to see Dahlen play with Pettersson. Oh well Dahlen bolted back to sweden. Forever Jaded 

[Rob_Zepp]

On 4/12/2019 at 12:16 PM, theo5789 said:

All we know is there was something awry between Dahlen and the team and he was very quickly dealt.

Yes, they quickly determined he was not cut out for the NHL so traded for a player who might be (and by all accounts is making excellent progress).

[Timråfan]

On 6/8/2019 at 1:23 AM, Rob_Zepp said:

Perhaps Benning was simply knowing this kid simply didn't have the stuff to stick it out for the North American game?    

He came over to Norrh America too early. He had just played second tier in Sweden.

To play with a lot of NHL rejects/-wannabees isn't great if you're not muscled for it.

[coryberg]

1 hour ago, Timråfan said:

He came over to Norrh America too early. He had just played second tier in Sweden.

To play with a lot of NHL rejects/-wannabees isn't great if you're not muscled for it.

It's not great to play against NHL wannabes if you don't wanna be.

[Borvat]

58 minutes ago, coryberg said:

It's not great to play against NHL wannabes if you don't wanna be.

Looks like he was one of the rejects and a wannabe

[Rob_Zepp]

2 hours ago, Timråfan said:

 

To play with a lot of NHL wannabees isn't great

Uh, isn't that what all prospects playing towards the NHL are?   If you don't want to play with other prospects then how on earth can you get to the NHL?.....unless you really don't want to (which apparently he may not).

[Timråfan]

16 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Uh, isn't that what all prospects playing towards the NHL are?   If you don't want to play with other prospects then how on earth can you get to the NHL?.....unless you really don't want to (which apparently he may not).

Probably too young mentally(muscles also) wich is why he should have played in SHL before AHL.

[SilentSam]

2 hours ago, Timråfan said:

He came over to Norrh America too early. He had just played second tier in Sweden.

To play with a lot of NHL rejects/-wannabees isn't great if you're not muscled for it.

He seemed to be producing in Utica when we had him.. Rumour was he was disgruntled.

Seems like the right move to trade him for L.Karlsson.. bigger stronger NHL wannabe type.

I think NHL wannabee’s can make great NHL players.

 

If you don’t “wannabee” your never “gunnabee”.

Mark Twain’s Mother.

Edited July 24, 2019 by SilentSam

[Dr. Crossbar]

Imo, Dahlen got swept up in the hype of he and Pettersson being the dynamic duo of the future. He obviously thought he was ready or close to joining Pettersson and assumed the organization felt that way too.

 

It was probably frustrating to be hyped as a future star, watch your linemate succeed with the big club, know the previous success you had, and then be left to wonder why you weren't being called up. 

 

I'm not saying it's right but I can understand how things went down this way. I just don't think he knew the extent of how much he had to prove himself and saw himself more as a sure thing with Pettersson.

 

Best thing for him is to go back overseas, light it up, and prove everyone wrong.

 

 

[canucklehead44]

On 7/25/2019 at 5:13 PM, Dr. Crossbar said:

Imo, Dahlen got swept up in the hype of he and Pettersson being the dynamic duo of the future. He obviously thought he was ready or close to joining Pettersson and assumed the organization felt that way too.

 

It was probably frustrating to be hyped as a future star, watch your linemate succeed with the big club, know the previous success you had, and then be left to wonder why you weren't being called up. 

 

I'm not saying it's right but I can understand how things went down this way. I just don't think he knew the extent of how much he had to prove himself and saw himself more as a sure thing with Pettersson.

 

Best thing for him is to go back overseas, light it up, and prove everyone wrong.

 

 

To be honest I wish we gave him 7 games instead of Sam Gagner to see if his game translated at all to the NHL. AHL hockey isn't great. It is kind of like watching a bunch of 4th liners with the occasional skill guy on a line. Even a guy like Goldobin looked like garbage 5 on 5 (great on the powerplay). 

Dahlen actually looked really good but had absolutely nothing to work with. If he was on a line with Boucher and Kero he would have likely produced very well but instead he got Brendan Woods as a centre.