Next 5 years and prospects....

[Rob_Zepp]

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

Our next five years of prospects would be a lot more exciting if we started the rebuild soon though, no?

For now, I don't know if we have any players (not the young ones) with any real trade value. 

Would any of these guys get us more than a middling pick?

Hutton

Baer

Tanev

Is there anyone else of value, who isn't young?  I think the ship sailed between 2012 and 1014. 

1014 - a thousand year rebuild is indeed slow.

[aGENT]

8 minutes ago, Where'd Luongo? said:

2 good prospects further is enough for me to be curious.

Again, no guarantees of 'good' or two. We could just as easily have two more Zhukenov's or another Candella. Or another decent but thus far not earth shattering, Lockwood and Brisebois. 

 

And I'm not opposed to 'curious' or discussion. I love discussion of thoughts and ideas and even a little dreaming (imagine if we'd drafted Karlsson instead of Hodgson...him feeding the twins 2010-12 *drool*).

 

The absolute insistence however that we'd almost certainly have an extra Debrincat and Aho if only we had 'proper rebuild' and that Benning should be fired because it however, is ridiculous and not at all productive or worthwhile 'discussion'. It's mindless, fanatical ranting.

 

And again, still ignores the value of having solid vets to shelter and mentor the likes of Horvat, Stecher, Boeser et al. Which you're free to disagree with as part of a rebuild model and conversely promote the tear down 'tank' approach, but you cannot deny there IS value to if you're being intellectually honest.

[Rob_Zepp]

20 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Again, no guarantees of 'good' or two. We could just as easily have two more Zhukenov's or another Candella. Or another decent but thus far not earth shattering, Lockwood and Brisebois. 

 

And I'm not opposed to 'curious' or discussion. I love discussion of thoughts and ideas and even a little dreaming (imagine if we'd drafted Karlsson instead of Hodgson...him feeding the twins 2010-12 *drool*).

 

The absolute insistence however that we'd almost certainly have an extra Debrincat and Aho if only we had 'proper rebuild' and that Benning should be fired because it however, is ridiculous and not at all productive or worthwhile 'discussion'. It's mindless, fanatical ranting.

 

And again, still ignores the value of having solid vets to shelter and mentor the likes of Horvat, Stecher, Boeser et al. Which you're free to disagree with as part of a rebuild model and conversely promote the tear down 'tank' approach, but you cannot deny there IS value to if you're being intellectually honest.

I think what you are hearing is this:

 

[Where'd Luongo?]

4 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

I think what you are hearing is this:

 

[Rob_Zepp]

16 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

 

 

Facts? How ironic.  If I was a moderator you would be banned for spreading misinformation, lying and inability to provide links or proof to many of your claims.  And yes I could quickly do a search and bring up examples of all of these things.  

Hey sunshine!   Your meds working today I see!       

[spur1]

Please let the draft and free agency begin so there is something to talk about  other than reading 20/20 hindsight I would have done it better bull crap. 

[Rob_Zepp]

On 6/3/2019 at 1:53 PM, The 5th Line said:

We don't even have enough prospects to compete in any prospect tournaments or exhibition.

 

#rebuild 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rob_Zepp]

On 6/3/2019 at 5:35 PM, The 5th Line said:

10th and 40th overall. Awesome.  Gonna be a super exciting draft

[spur1]

On 6/6/2019 at 1:36 PM, The 5th Line said:

Draft picks for Detroit, no old and used roster players, no reclamation projects.  Picks, picks, picks, stock the farm.  The staggering difference is a reminder that we have sat around wasting valuable time, acquiring further down the road players in hopes of quicker playoffs.  The amount of picks we have squandered during our rebuild is gross.

 

 

Red Wings since 2017;

 

Picks brought in via trade by round - Detroit - In: 1,  2, 2, 2, 2,   3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3,   4,   5, 5, 5,  6,   7.      Out: 3, 5

Players brought in:  4 different players

 

Canucks since 2017;

 

Picks brought in via trade by round: In:  4, 6, 7.    Out: 4, 7

Players brought in: 15 different players

 

Canucks since 2014;

 

Picks by round via trade   In:   1,  2, 2,  3, 3, 3,  4,  5,  6,  7, 7, 7.   Out: 2, 2, 2, 2,  3, 3, 3,  4, 4,  5, 5,  6,  7, 7

Players brought in via trades: 32 different players

 

Since 2017:

Jurco for 3rd

B.Smith for 2nd + 3rd

Vanek for 3rd + Mcillrath

Ott for 6th

Sheahan + 5th for Wilson + 3rd

Wilson for 5th

Mrazek for 3rd + 4th

Tatar for 1st + 2nd + 3rd

Russo for 7th

Jensen + 5th for Bowey + 2nd

Nyquist for 2nd + 3rd

Sproul for Puempel 

And how far did Detroit go in the playoffs? 

[Viper007]

On 6/6/2019 at 12:36 PM, The 5th Line said:

Draft picks for Detroit, no old and used roster players, no reclamation projects.  Picks, picks, picks, stock the farm.  The staggering difference is a reminder that we have sat around wasting valuable time, acquiring further down the road players in hopes of quicker playoffs.  The amount of picks we have squandered during our rebuild is gross.

 

 

Red Wings since 2017;

 

Picks brought in via trade by round - Detroit - In: 1,  2, 2, 2, 2,   3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3,   4,   5, 5, 5,  6,   7.      Out: 3, 5

Players brought in:  4 different players

 

Canucks since 2017;

 

Picks brought in via trade by round: In:  4, 6, 7.    Out: 4, 7

Players brought in: 15 different players

 

Canucks since 2014;

 

Picks by round via trade   In:   1,  2, 2,  3, 3, 3,  4,  5,  6,  7, 7, 7.   Out: 2, 2, 2, 2,  3, 3, 3,  4, 4,  5, 5,  6,  7, 7

Players brought in via trades: 32 different players

 

Since 2017:

Jurco for 3rd

B.Smith for 2nd + 3rd

Vanek for 3rd + Mcillrath

Ott for 6th

Sheahan + 5th for Wilson + 3rd

Wilson for 5th

Mrazek for 3rd + 4th

Tatar for 1st + 2nd + 3rd

Russo for 7th

Jensen + 5th for Bowey + 2nd

Nyquist for 2nd + 3rd

Sproul for Puempel 

Yet I would still take the Canucks roster over the Red Wings.

[Baggins]

On 6/6/2019 at 11:36 AM, The 5th Line said:

Draft picks for Detroit, no old and used roster players, no reclamation projects.  Picks, picks, picks, stock the farm.  The staggering difference is a reminder that we have sat around wasting valuable time, acquiring further down the road players in hopes of quicker playoffs.  The amount of picks we have squandered during our rebuild is gross.

 

 

Red Wings since 2017;

 

Picks brought in via trade by round - Detroit - In: 1,  2, 2, 2, 2,   3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3,   4,   5, 5, 5,  6,   7.      Out: 3, 5

Players brought in:  4 different players

 

Canucks since 2017;

 

Picks brought in via trade by round: In:  4, 6, 7.    Out: 4, 7

Players brought in: 15 different players

 

Canucks since 2014;

 

Picks by round via trade   In:   1,  2, 2,  3, 3, 3,  4,  5,  6,  7, 7, 7.   Out: 2, 2, 2, 2,  3, 3, 3,  4, 4,  5, 5,  6,  7, 7

Players brought in via trades: 32 different players

 

Since 2017:

Jurco for 3rd

B.Smith for 2nd + 3rd

Vanek for 3rd + Mcillrath

Ott for 6th

Sheahan + 5th for Wilson + 3rd

Wilson for 5th

Mrazek for 3rd + 4th

Tatar for 1st + 2nd + 3rd

Russo for 7th

Jensen + 5th for Bowey + 2nd

Nyquist for 2nd + 3rd

Sproul for Puempel 

How many of those picks are making an impact in the NHL?

[Baggins]

19 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

Well it's only been two years.. 

 

We will revisit this in due time that's why I'm posting.  The different route we have taken towards rebuilding is night and day compared to other clubs.  We are rushing the process, clearly.  

 

Look at what Detroit collected in two years compared to us in five.  

 

Never would I have expected that when Benning took over we would actually trade away more picks than we would bring in.  It's mind boggling, it's like we've been a contender trying to add pieces for a playoff push this whole time.

There lies the problem. We won't know for five years whether they did it right or not. Atlanta  had top picks. No cups. Arizona has had top picks. No cups. I don't believe there is a right way. Just right timing combined with some draft luck.

[vannuck59]

After watching the playoffs its clear size matters 

[higgyfan]

1 hour ago, vannuck59 said:

After watching the playoffs its clear size matters 

So does speed, skill and HEART.  It's all about putting together the right blend of players.

[Tomatoes11]

On 6/8/2019 at 6:16 PM, Baggins said:

There lies the problem. We won't know for five years whether they did it right or not. Atlanta  had top picks. No cups. Arizona has had top picks. No cups. I don't believe there is a right way. Just right timing combined with some draft luck.

Um, I don’t think pissing away 2nd round picks for bottom 6 players will ever be the right strategy in any universe. Especially considering our 2nds are effectively low 1st round picks based on our bottom of the barrel finishes.

 

Not sure how the Benning apologists can even defend this. 

[wai_lai416]

On 6/8/2019 at 6:16 PM, Baggins said:

There lies the problem. We won't know for five years whether they did it right or not. Atlanta  had top picks. No cups. Arizona has had top picks. No cups. I don't believe there is a right way. Just right timing combined with some draft luck.

That's because no one wants to play in Arizona or Atlanta. You can have all the top picks if you cant sign any players to play with them of coz it will fail and in Atlanta's case they were terrible at drafting.. Patrick stepan 1st overall Lehtonen 2nd overall etc etc.. 

[vannuck59]

On ‎6‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 8:45 AM, higgyfan said:

So does speed, skill and HEART.  It's all about putting together the right blend of players.

Mainly talking D

[Baggins]

5 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

That's because no one wants to play in Arizona or Atlanta. You can have all the top picks if you cant sign any players to play with them of coz it will fail and in Atlanta's case they were terrible at drafting.. Patrick stepan 1st overall Lehtonen 2nd overall etc etc.. 

Heatley, Kovalchuk…..

[ItTakesAnArmy]

On 4/5/2019 at 4:02 PM, Jimmy McGill said:

Utica hasn't developed "quality"? what about Demko? Gaudette? Jake? Saunter? Bresbois? and probably Juolevi once we finally get to have a look.

 

You're also ignoring the potential of MacEwan, Lind and Gadjovich, its too soon to call them busts or that the cupboard is "bare" while they are still in the system.

 

We also have DiPieto, Woo, Rathbone and whoever we pick this year, and the new crop of college guys we just got all set to make appearances in Utica in the next 1 or 2 seasons.

 

Not sure what your expectations are, to turn all non-1st rounders into 1st rounders? Utica isn't there to turn every player into a superstar. 

 

 

One thing for a goalie but does a cup of coffee in Utica count as developed by them?

Jake came back worse by stats than when he left, he was a positive influence and defensively sound when he left, he had other issues that needed deallng with than playing, Guadette got 10 games? Saunter less than a season and Briesbois isn't that impactful otherwise why sign Schenn? Juolevi isn't even a player yet and not played one game in the NHL so how is that a success?

I would look to the other draft picks from the last 5 drafts to see their progress, there should be a lot of them shouldn't there? Should be quite a few picks with 3+ years experience in the AHL right?

 

One thing most over look is the next group of draft picks unless there is a Crosby or McDavid coming up. Next years group is superior by mass to the last 20 or so, very deep, into the 40's for expected sure things so maybe the Canucks should include in their plan for those top echelon players.

 

September 2019 - The option to opt out of the current Labor Contract for either side.

NHLPA - Telling players to prepare - Olympics, Cap, ESCROW, Sources - Player contracts reflect a possible cessation of play for the 2020 - 2021 season.

NHL - Already delayed Seattle expansion and hundreds of millions owed for one year.

[JM_]

1 hour ago, ItTakesAnArmy said:

One thing for a goalie but does a cup of coffee in Utica count as developed by them?

Jake came back worse by stats than when he left, he was a positive influence and defensively sound when he left, he had other issues that needed deallng with than playing, Guadette got 10 games? Saunter less than a season and Briesbois isn't that impactful otherwise why sign Schenn? Juolevi isn't even a player yet and not played one game in the NHL so how is that a success?

I would look to the other draft picks from the last 5 drafts to see their progress, there should be a lot of them shouldn't there? Should be quite a few picks with 3+ years experience in the AHL right?

 

One thing most over look is the next group of draft picks unless there is a Crosby or McDavid coming up. Next years group is superior by mass to the last 20 or so, very deep, into the 40's for expected sure things so maybe the Canucks should include in their plan for those top echelon players.

 

September 2019 - The option to opt out of the current Labor Contract for either side.

NHLPA - Telling players to prepare - Olympics, Cap, ESCROW, Sources - Player contracts reflect a possible cessation of play for the 2020 - 2021 season.

NHL - Already delayed Seattle expansion and hundreds of millions owed for one year.

yes, it all counts. Just the experience of being sent down and called back up matters for motivation. Gillis drained us of picks and prospects, its going to take time to fill that back up and we're almost back to where it should be, probably after this draft.