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sam13371337

Trans individuals are killing female sports

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2 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

That’s not much of an answer.  Science changes all the time due to new information, not “politics.” What I’ve been taught and found myself is pretty supportive of transgender people with regards to the science behind it.  In other words - what they are experiencing is real and should be validated. 

Science changes due to new information. Whether XYZ is classified as an illness by a political body - which many of the science regulatory bodies are- is a matter of politics.

2 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

 

I dont know much much of the politics behind WHO but I do know a few people involved as medical professionals, mental health professionals and other pHD level academics and none of them give two whits about “political pressure.”  They’re going to argue what they found was correct. 

Sure. And there are plenty who will conform to the norms set by society to forward their careers - these are personality traits, not 'science' traits. 

2 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

 

The UK’s national health service: “Gender dysphoria is a recognised medical condition, for which treatment is sometimes appropriate. It's not a mental illness.”

 

Other sources I’ve seen may regard “gender dysphoria” as a mental illness but define it as the negative feelings associated around gender identity, not gender identity itself.  As a treatment, hormone therapy and sex reassignment are options.  

 

In the end, it’s an obviously complicated topic with a lot of nuance along the spectrum.  The point is, “science” seems to agree it’s not something to be scoffed away as a product of a dysfunctional society as you’re oft to do.

I am not scoffing away the notion of gender dysphoria as a product of dysfunctional society. I am saying that in English and various European languages, the LANGUAGE battle exists, solely because of the crappiness of these languages, where the notion of gender and sex are not decisively linked. As i said, i speak several languages, some of which are non-European languages and in all of them, gender = sex in the language. Ergo, you cannot be a 'woman' in the said language if you have a penis, since the terminology for female and woman are the same, same with male and men. 

THIS language-war, is a product of a dysfunctional language from a family of languages that are poorly constructed languages in the first place. 

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2 minutes ago, luckylager said:

Yet it still remains to be seen, Stan. 

 

If the scenario you outlined were to ever play out, trans men would be forced into their own league.

 

 

Only if there are enough trans-men to make a league. If there are like 4 trans-men competing for the olympic 100m final, then people would argue that its a devalued medal in and of itself due to lack of competition and the event shouldn't exist in the first place.

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Just now, riffraff said:

Dude I’m totally joking.

 

cmon you know me.

Word

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5 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

Only if there are enough trans-men to make a league. If there are like 4 trans-men competing for the olympic 100m final, then people would argue that its a devalued medal in and of itself due to lack of competition and the event shouldn't exist in the first place.

And it would be. 

 

But it's not my battle to fight

 

I want a raging feminist's opinion on this topic.

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46 minutes ago, naslund.is.king said:

Dont post on a internet forum a article thats 800 pages

are you actually being serious? 

i posted a few sentences of basic understanding of  90% of the world...but yet im supposed to read the 800 pages to understand your argument 

if you were so well educated on the subject and read the "book" shouldnt you be able to summarize it?

 

Its funny all these people attacking me who probably never grew up with someone transgender in there house hold

And you guys wanna tell me its not mental illness watching it for 20+ years

Look: you have presented no argument for your claim. You said gender non-congruence is a mental disorder and then referenced the physical body to prove it. Your conclusion does not follow from anything you wrote 'in support' of it.

 

Maybe if you stopped deriving universals from particulars you wouldn't be such a bigot.

 

It speaks to the strength of character of people on this board that they can't conceive of the notion that someone could define themselves; it takes a weak will to only have eyes for seeing oneself as what one has been told they are their whole life.

Edited by 112

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6 minutes ago, 112 said:

Look: you have presented no argument for your claim. You said gender incongruence is a mental disorder and then referenced the physical body to prove it. Your conclusion does not follow from anything you wrote about.

 

Maybe if you stopped deriving universals from particulars you wouldn't be such a bigot.

 

It speaks to the strength of character of people on this board that they can't conceive of the notion that someone could define themselves; it takes a weak will to only have eyes for seeing oneself as what one has been told they are.

It is physiologically impossible to change someone sex,  the sex of each individual is encoded in the genes—XX if female, XY if male. Surgery can only create the appearance of the other sex

sexual identity is on every cell of the body and can be determined through DNA testing. It cannot be changed.

Please though tell me otherwise

Your opinion is nice but this is the facts everyhuman is told

please give me some facts and science not your opinion

 

 

 

 

Edited by naslund.is.king
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53 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

There is no difference between gender and sex. The only languages where such distinction exists, are crappy European languages, which are far, far inferior to most of the languages of the world, its not even funny. In Arabic, mandarin, most Indian languages, the term sex and gender- even in scientific parlayance ( and in some of those languages, the formal speak is hell of a lot more formal than in European languages), is the same damn word. 

So to me, this whole tolerance/intolerance/identity etc thing is just laughable - its product of a crap language, from one of the crappiest branches of the language trees i can think of. 

Blaming this on language as your main argument point is not scientific backing.

Oh and the WHO disagrees with you: https://www.who.int/gender-equity-rights/understanding/gender-definition/en/  Gender refers to the socially constructed characteristics of women and men – such as norms, roles and relationships of and between groups of women and men. It varies from society to society and can be changed. While most people are born either male or female, they are taught appropriate norms and behaviours – including how they should interact with others of the same or opposite sex within households, communities and work places. When individuals or groups do not “fit” established gender norms they often face stigma, discriminatory practices or social exclusion – all of which adversely affect health. It is important to be sensitive to different identities that do not necessarily fit into binary male or female sex categories.

 

https://www.who.int/reproductivehealth/topics/sexual_health/sh_definitions/en/ "Sex refers to the biological characteristics that define humans as female or male. While these sets of biological characteristics are not mutually exclusive, as there are individuals who possess both, they tend to differentiate humans as males and females."

48 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

The science papers as recently as two years ago ( when transgenderism was removed from the WHO list of illnesses due to political pressure) are pretty conclusive on this, the science has not changed in its scope or outcome. 

And what proof do you have that it was political pressure and not just a change in stance due to scientific progression and a better understanding of the condition. The WHO recategorized it from a mental illness to a sexual health condition in 2018.. I copied and pasted this from an article at the time that happened: https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/20/health/transgender-people-no-longer-considered-mentally-ill-trnd/index.html

 

Being transgender is no longer classified as a mental illness by the World Health Organization – a key sign of progress for an often-marginalized community.  

The United Nations health agency announced Monday in its 11th International Classification of Diseases (ICD) catalog that "gender incongruence" -- the organization's term for people whose gender identity is different from the gender they were assigned at birth -- has been moved out of the mental disorders chapter and into the organization's sexual health chapter...

..."It was taken out from the mental health disorders because we had a better understanding that this wasn't actually a mental health condition and leaving it there was causing stigma," said Dr. Lale Say, coordinator of WHO's Adolescents and at-Risk Populations team. "So in order to reduce the stigma while also ensuring access to necessary health interventions, this was placed in a different chapter."

Historically, the WHO's classification of transgender identity as pathological had "contributed to the enormous stigma, discrimination, harassment, criminalization, and abuse on the basis of gender identity and expression," the group said in a statement.
Gregory Hartl, a spokesman for the WHO, told CNN last December that the ICD catalog is the "basis for identification of health trends and statistics globally and the international standard for reporting diseases and health conditions."
Hartl said medical practitioners use it to diagnose conditions and help scientists share and compare health information. Public health experts also use the ICD to track changes in the rates of deaths and diseases.

 

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Imagine thinking Zdeno Chara or Shaq or Michael Phelps or Brock Lesnar or Hafbor Björnsson, could identify as women and go destroy biological females in their sports and not have a problem with it. 

 

 

 

Hooray for equality?

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19 minutes ago, naslund.is.king said:

It is physiologically impossible to change someone sex,  the sex of each individual is encoded in the genes—XX if female, XY if male. Surgery can only create the appearance of the other sex

sexual identity is on every cell of the body and can be determined through DNA testing. It cannot be changed.

Please though tell me otherwise

Your opinion is nice but this is the facts everyhuman is told

please give me some facts and science not your opinion

 

 

 

 

I have already responded to this and demonstrated how it is a bad argument.

 

If the mind is only disordered in relation to the body, how is the mind disordered at all?

 

Why is the mind what is 'ill' and not the body in cases of gender non-congruence?

 

Why are you so sure of yourself when you don't even understand me?

Edited by 112

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Not to mention- who cares if it's an illness. Literally that means nothing.

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Naslund- this is more a philosophical issue than a scientific one.

 

How old are you?

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20 minutes ago, 112 said:

I have already responded to this and demonstrated how it is a bad argument.

 

If the mind is only disordered in relation to the body, how is the mind disordered at all?

 

Why is the mind what is 'ill' and not the body in cases of gender non-congruence?

 

Why are you so sure of yourself when you don't even understand me?

......you do understand what i keep responding is the universal understandin of genetics and science thats taught to all the world?

The rest of your argument just shows you have nothing but your opinion and hypotheticals...

Im sounding like a very broken record but not a single person in these 7 pages has put up a single factual argument to the basic understanding of the male/female chromosomes i keep posting

 

 

Edited by naslund.is.king
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Don't mind if someone like Marchand gets into this. He can try to win a 2020 medal as a female ardvaark..otherwise, don't giva' hoot(said the daytime wise owl)...

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I say we ditch all segregation in sports. No more male/female sport categories or leagues. Let everyone compete for the same spots and the deserving will earn their place in the spotlight. Everyone is all about equality these days, so I say we give it to them.

Edited by Fateless
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.....my Ford F-150 pickup truck identifies as a car.....why is it that your Toyota Prius car is having such a difficult time hauling what my now transgender car is capable of? .....it’s an even playing field after all isn’t it since we’re both cars so there’s no discrepancy right, right, RIGHT? Riiiiiighhttt. 

 

/in a &^@#ing nutshell. 

 

 

 

The sad part is actually having to explain this to certain people who don’t get that there are blatant advantages/disadvantages. Like I can’t believe others and myself are having to do this :blink::wacko::lol::picard:

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1 minute ago, Generational.EP40 said:

.....my Ford F-150 pickup truck identifies as a car.....why is it that your Toyota Prius car is having such a difficult time hauling what my now transgender car is capable of? .....it’s an even playing field after all isn’t it since we’re both cars so there’s no discrepancy right, right, RIGHT? Riiiiiighhttt. 

 

/in a &^@#ing nutshell. 

 

 

 

The sad part is actually having to explain this to certain people who don’t get that there are blatant advantages/disadvantages. Like I can’t believe others and myself are having to do this :blink::wacko::lol::picard:

The fact that you think this is, in anyway, analogous to this topic speaks to the level of thought you’ve put into it. 

 

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27 minutes ago, naslund.is.king said:

......you do understand what i keep responding is the universal understandin of genetics and science thats taught to all the world?

The rest of your argument just shows you have nothing but your opinion and hypotheticals...

Im sounding like a very broken record but not a single person in these 7 pages has put up a single factual argument to the basic understanding of the male/female chromosomes i keep posting

 

 

You don't know what you're talking about. This is why you don't see sense in any other posts here.

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Just now, Jack_T said:

The fact that you think this is, in anyway, analogous to this topic speaks to the level of thought you’ve put into it. 

 

 

Just now, 112 said:

You don't know what you're talking about. This is why you don't see sense in any other posts here.

 

Says you two :rolleyes:

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