Alflives Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 On 7/24/2019 at 4:15 PM, Kakanucks said: This is ridiculous... And we argue about freedom of expression/speech at the public library. Thank God we live here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 On 7/24/2019 at 4:15 PM, Kakanucks said: This is ridiculous... This is likely a dumb question, but how are the gay people (like our pride parade people here) treated in China? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 On 7/24/2019 at 4:15 PM, Kakanucks said: This is ridiculous... This is ridiculous. Why are people not fighting back? The pro-government assailants look pretty gutless while carrying out their attack. Cowardly doesn't begin to describe the exchange. What a mess that country can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonLever Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 On 7/2/2019 at 5:55 PM, canuckistani said: Neither do I. If you think I obviously have anti China vendetta, then I can easily say you have pro China apologism. It’s clear from you terming British annexation of Hong Kong as unfair but silence on Chinese annexation of Tibet and Dzungaria. The British did not annex Hong Kong. Hong Kong was ceded to Britain in the Treaty of Nanking in 1842 as a result of the First Opium War. Hong Kong was given to Britain as part of the peace deal between the Chinese government and England. The comparison between Tiber is totally inappropriate. Tibet was once an independent country while Hong Kong was always a part of China until 1842. Hong Kong was basically a fishing village back in 1842 with a population of 7450, not the millions Hong Kong have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckistani Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 On 7/26/2019 at 1:46 PM, DonLever said: The British did not annex Hong Kong. Hong Kong was ceded to Britain in the Treaty of Nanking in 1842 as a result of the First Opium War. Hong Kong was given to Britain as part of the peace deal between the Chinese government and England. The comparison between Tiber is totally inappropriate. Tibet was once an independent country while Hong Kong was always a part of China until 1842. Hong Kong was basically a fishing village back in 1842 with a population of 7450, not the millions Hong Kong have now. The comparison between tibet and Hong Kong is that both are formally annexed by China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonLever Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) On 7/27/2019 at 4:40 PM, canuckistani said: The comparison between tibet and Hong Kong is that both are formally annexed by China. But Hong Kong was not annexed by China. It was the other way around: Hong Kong was "annexed" by England in 1842 after China lost to England in the first Opium War. The peace treaty (Treaty of Nanking) between England and China gave Hong Kong to Britain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Nanking Quote The Qing government agreed to make Hong Kong Island a crown colony, ceding it to the British Queen, Queen Victoria. Fast forward 155 years to 1997, when Britain gave back Hong back to China as result of the 1984 deal between Britain and China. The 1984 agreement set out the parameters for the giving back of Hong Kong and its Territories. The is where the "one country, 2 system" comes into play. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-British_Joint_Declaration Quote In accordance with the "one country, two systems" principle agreed between the UK and the PRC, the socialist system of PRC would not be practised in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR), and Hong Kong's previous capitalist system and its way of life would remain unchanged for a period of 50 years until 2047. The Joint Declaration provides that these basic policies should be stipulated in the Hong Kong Basic Law and that the socialist system and socialist policies shall not be practised in HKSAR. However, with the start of the Umbrella Revolution in 2014, a campaign against the perceived infringements in the HKSAR by mainland China, the British Foreign Office announced that Chinese officials now treat the Joint Declaration as "void". Edited July 29, 2019 by DonLever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckistani Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) 55 minutes ago, DonLever said: But Hong Kong was not annexed by China. It was the other way around: Hong Kong was "annexed" by England in 1842 after China lost to England in the first Opium War. The peace treaty (Treaty of Nanking) between England and China gave Hong Kong to Britain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Nanking Fast forward 155 years to 1997, when Britain gave back Hong back to China as result of the 1984 deal between Britain and China. The 1984 agreement set out the parameters for the giving back of Hong Kong and its Territories. The is where the "one country, 2 system" comes into play. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-British_Joint_Declaration Well, China did conquer the Hong Kong region from Nanyue in 100 BCE and again from the Yuan dynasty under the Ming in 1300s. Contrary to popular Chinese propaganda of one China tracing to Yuan dynasty, the Yuan to Ming was not a change of government( as it is in several other cases of dynastic overthrow). It was a war of independence and the Yuan were evicted from most of China, surviving for hundreds of years as the Northern Yuan, which the Qing dynasty conquered finally along with rest of China. As such, Chinese official claims stating their territorial claims due to Yuan Dynasty(Mongols), is factually incorrect. The Ming didn’t defeat the Yuan and promptly take over all their holdings, extinguishing the Yuan and therefore, claim a ‘dynastic Change to the same polity/government’. The Ming ran a rebellion, which succeeded from evicting the Yuan from most of China, but Yuan lived on, controlling most of Inner Mongolia, Mongolia and large parts of Cinjiang(before the Uighur broke away from the Northern Yuan, as the Dzungar Empire a century later). It was a war of eviction of the foreign dynasty, which limped on in its own homelands as The Northern Yuan. China likes to ignore this point, mostly to deny independence legitimacy for Tibet and Dzungaria, the latter which it renamed in the Sinicized form of Xinjiang. In anycase, my point is, return of Chinese sovereignty to Hong Kong was not unconditional. It was contingent of the parameters set out in the agreement. As such, people are in legal right to dispute China’s sovereignty over Hong Kong, if China is non compliant to the terms of sovereign handover. Edited July 29, 2019 by canuckistani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancaster Posted August 11, 2019 Author Share Posted August 11, 2019 Just pwned someone pro-China Reddit user and now suddenly I receive notice from Reddit of potentially "suspicious activities", lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuckin_futz Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Hong Kong airport cancels all flights for the rest of today amid ongoing protests Mon 12 Aug 2019 09:58:47 GMT Protesters have continued their sit-in assembly at the Hong Kong airport for a fourth day and that has resulted in remaining flights to and from the city to be cancelled. The weekend marked the tenth straight week of protests in Hong Kong and was arguably the most violent weekend of confrontation between the police and the public. https://www.forexlive.com/news/!/hong-kong-airport-cancels-all-flights-for-the-rest-of-today-amid-ongoing-protests-20190812 ********************************* This is not going to be allowed to continue like this much longer. You cannot paralyze the airport and disrupt all air traffic. The Chinese are gathering tanks in Shenzen just outside of Hong Kong. They claim it's just for normal exercises (yeah right). Even if they wanted to negotiate, who do you negotiate with? The protestors have no leader. I don't think this has a peaceful ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Scary times for Hong Kong, and her people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-SN- Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 1 hour ago, nuckin_futz said: Even if they wanted to negotiate, who do you negotiate with? The protestors have no leader. Why would you assume that? They're an organized group - they have leaders. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuckin_futz Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 21 minutes ago, StealthNuck said: Why would you assume that? They're an organized group - they have leaders. Who are they? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancaster Posted August 12, 2019 Author Share Posted August 12, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, nuckin_futz said: Who are they? There are multiple people on the forefront as there are multiple groups who are protesting. Many of the Umbrella movement are leading the charge, then there are probably some people organizing the thousands of lawyers, those organizing the civic employees, the Cathay Pacific group, the elder groups, etc. No main official leaders... just a bunch of grass-root groups protesting together. The massing of the armed forces does seem troubling, but they won't be using force. The price is way too high for China. This isn't Beijing during the 80's when China was pretty much closed to the world, HK is one of the most international city in the world. 24/7 news, cameras, videos, etc... nothing can be without it being recorded and broadcast instantaneously. Whereas Tiannamen was most just students, HK is all segment of society... from students, to the elderly, to the regular folks and the ultra-wealthy. Many in HK are also dual citizens. If Chi-Coms starts mowing people down with tanks and machine guns.... how will China explain to the US, UK, Canada, Australia, NZ, etc... that they have just killed tens of thousands of their citizens? Think of the backlash the party will take if a few wealthy billionaires with ties to China are killed. I get the feeling at the HK police are more than willing to fight protesters, but once the PLA comes in... it's a different story. I can't imagine the police standing by and watching the PLA attack and kill people who are literally their friends and families. Might start seeing some cops defecting.... perhaps even bringing a few armaments along should that come to be. Edited August 12, 2019 by Lancaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken. Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 27 minutes ago, Lancaster said: There are multiple people on the forefront as there are multiple groups who are protesting. Many of the Umbrella movement are leading the charge, then there are probably some people organizing the thousands of lawyers, those organizing the civic employees, the Cathay Pacific group, the elder groups, etc. No main official leaders... just a bunch of grass-root groups protesting together. The massing of the armed forces does seem troubling, but they won't be using force. The price is way too high for China. This isn't Beijing during the 80's when China was pretty much closed to the world, HK is one of the most international city in the world. 24/7 news, cameras, videos, etc... nothing can be without it being recorded and broadcast instantaneously. Whereas Tiannamen was most just students, HK is all segment of society... from students, to the elderly, to the regular folks and the ultra-wealthy. Many in HK are also dual citizens. If Chi-Coms starts mowing people down with tanks and machine guns.... how will China explain to the US, UK, Canada, Australia, NZ, etc... that they have just killed tens of thousands of their citizens? Think of the backlash the party will take if a few wealthy billionaires with ties to China are killed. I get the feeling at the HK police are more than willing to fight protesters, but once the PLA comes in... it's a different story. I can't imagine the police standing by and watching the PLA attack and kill people who are literally their friends and families. Might start seeing some cops defecting.... perhaps even bringing a few armaments along should that come to be. I would think if the Leaders were more high-profile they would be targeted directly by the police etc.. It's clear that the government does not want to negotiate or listen to what these groups have to say in good faith Sad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken. Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Maybe the HK situation is being put on the table with a trade deal...how can anyone trust them to comply with a deal the way HK is being treated This also provides more publicity to the HK situation which China clearly does NOT want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Cat Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Apparently..theres a lot of secret police who are dressed up as protesters..and are infiltrating...A lot of people are getting snatched and driven off in the back of vans.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuckin_futz Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Reports of a police operation getting underway at Hong Kong airport CNN reports: Protesters at the Hong Kong international airport are now attempting to block the police buses outside of the airport, CNN teams on the ground report. Police in riot gear are outside the airport entrance as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonLever Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 11 hours ago, Honky Cat said: Apparently..theres a lot of secret police who are dressed up as protesters..and are infiltrating...A lot of people are getting snatched and driven off in the back of vans.. Its call under cover. Cops do it all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonLever Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said: Reports of a police operation getting underway at Hong Kong airport CNN reports: Protesters at the Hong Kong international airport are now attempting to block the police buses outside of the airport, CNN teams on the ground report. Police in riot gear are outside the airport entrance as well. The airport has been disrupted for 2nd day in a row with many cancellations. I wonder how long this will keep going on until China send in their forces. Imagine if YVR or Toronto International or NY closed for several days. What would the authorities do here? Edited August 13, 2019 by DonLever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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