Jim Benning Deserves Better!

[Smashian Kassian]

Definitely deserves credit for drafting. Especially Pettersson. That one took some courage & because of it the outlook for this franchise has changed dramatically, like a complete 180 in 1 year.

 

The pro-side, for the most part, hasn't been good. That's a pretty fair criticism. And I think questioning the direction (first going for it, then giving into rebuild, now going for it again) is legitimate aswell. Although in complete fairness to Benning, I think that has as much, if not more, to do with ownership. If they said 'we need a longer, patient, rebuild' that's the path JB would've started on.

 

I don't think his tenure has been amazing outside the draft, but you can't take the core away from him. We're already seeing the benefits not just in having great players, but also starting to become somewhat of a destination for free agents again.

 

Whether Benning lasts long term, or is gone within a few years, I don't really care personally. Because I do have some questions about the pro-side. But he'll always get credit for putting those building blocks in place like Burke/Nonis did in the Gillis years.  

 

And I do appreciate his honestly as far as speaking to the media & fans. At times with Gillis he gave nothing, & trying to figuring out his stance on things was like trying to solve a mystery.

[NHL97OneTimer]

On 6/24/2019 at 7:03 PM, CreamCheese said:

Off the top of my head here's why GMJB get's hate, i'm sure i'm missing some...

 

He signed Loui Erikkson to a 6x6 deal 

He signed Brandon 4th line Sutter to a 5 year deal at huge money

He Drafted Virtnanen over Nylander and Ehlers (both of who CDC basically unanimously wanted)

Traded away McCann for Erik Pylon Gudbranson 

Drafted Juolevi over Tkachuk (everybody wanted Tkachuk)

Signed Beagle and Roussell to 4 year deals to join the Sea of Granlunds

Signed Schaller.... Who?

Now he's traded away a potential lottery pick for a minor upgrade to Leivo. 

 

 

Am I missing anything? 

 

 

Sure but when is the onus on the players and not the GM?!!  The first three were not unreasonable if they lived up to their hype at the time.  Eriksson was pricey and long but this was a contract that a transitional team has to live with and could afford.  If he played to his previous level we wouldn't have minded it so much.  Juolevi was the need at the time and in the future still.....tougher to get D than a winger.  The other moves are marginal issues.  So, rightful to have issues with the above but hindsight is 20/20 and no GM hits it out of the park with every move.

[Baggins]

On 6/27/2019 at 3:47 PM, ItTakesAnArmy said:

Each year Benning is hailed as having a great draft. Where are they? 

Over the last 6 years, players drafted and playing 15+ games with the Canucks = 4 players in six years. 7 top 10 picks

Do you just make it up as you go? Where do you get your info?

 

Vancouver Canucks Draft History

2019 Entry						NHL Totals
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2019 Entry	10	1	Vasili Podkolzin	R	St. Petersburg [Russia Jr.]
2019 Entry	40	2	Nils Hoglander	L	Rogle BK Angelholm [SweHL]
2019 Entry	122	4	Ethan Keppen	L	Flint Firebirds [OHL]
2019 Entry	133	5	Carson Focht	C	Calgary Hitmen [WHL]
2019 Entry	156	6	Arturs Silovs	G	Riga [Russia Jrs.]
2019 Entry	175	6	Karel Plasek	R	Brno Kometa [Czech]
2019 Entry	180	6	Jack Malone	R	Youngstown Phantoms [USHL]
2019 Entry	195	7	Aidan Mcdonough	L	Cedar Rapids RoughRiders [USHL]
2019 Entry	215	7	Arvid Costmar	C	Linkoping [Sweden Jrs.]
2018 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2018 Entry	7	1	Quinn Hughes	D	U. of Michigan [Big-10]	5	0	3	3	2
2018 Entry	37	2	Jett Woo	D	Moose Jaw Warriors [WHL]
2018 Entry	68	3	Tyler Madden	C	Tri-City Storm [USHL]
2018 Entry	130	5	Toni Utunen	D	Leki-2 (Finland Jrs.)
2018 Entry	186	6	Artem Manukyan	F	Omsk-2 (Russia Jrs.)
2018 Entry	192	7	Matthew Thiessen	G	Steinbach Pistons [MJHL]
2017 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2017 Entry	5	1	Elias Pettersson	C	Timra IK [Swe-1]	71	28	38	66	12
2017 Entry	33	2	Kole Lind	R	Kelowna Rockets [WHL]
2017 Entry	55	2	Jonah Gadjovich	L	Owen Sound Attack [OHL]
2017 Entry	64	3	Michael DiPietro	G	Windsor Spitfires [OHL]	1	0	0	0	0
2017 Entry	95	4	Jack Rathbone	D	Dexter School [Mass. H.S.]
2017 Entry	135	5	Kristoffer Gunnarsson	D	Frolunda HC [SweHL]
2017 Entry	181	6	Petrus Palmu	R	Owen Sound Attack [OHL]
2017 Entry	188	7	Matt Brassard	D	Oshawa Generals [OHL]
2016 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2016 Entry	5	1	Olli Juolevi	D	London Knights [OHL]
2016 Entry	64	3	William Lockwood	R	U.S. National Development Team [USHL]
2016 Entry	140	5	Cole Candella	D	Hamilton Bulldogs [OHL]
2016 Entry	154	6	Jakob Stukel	L	Calgary Hitmen [WHL]
2016 Entry	184	7	Rodrigo Abols	C	Portland Winterhawks [WHL]
2016 Entry	194	7	Brett McKenzie	C	North Bay Battalion [OHL]
2015 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2015 Entry	23	1	Brock Boeser	R	Waterloo Black Hawks [USHL]	140	59	57	116	38
2015 Entry	66	3	Guillaume Brisebois	D	Acadie-Bathurst Titan [QMJHL]	8	0	0	0	0
2015 Entry	114	4	Dmitry Zhukenov	C	Omsk Jrs. (Russia)
2015 Entry	144	5	Carl Neill	D	Sherbrooke Phoenix [QMJHL]
2015 Entry	149	5	Adam Gaudette	C	Cedar Rapids RoughRiders [USHL]	61	5	7	12	18
2015 Entry	174	6	Lukas Jasek	R	Trinec Ocelari HC [Czech]
2015 Entry	210	7	Tate Olson	D	Prince George Cougars [WHL]
2014 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2014 Entry	6	1	Jake Virtanen	R	Calgary Hitmen [WHL]	210	32	27	59	137
2014 Entry	24	1	Jared McCann	C	Soo Greyhounds [OHL]	244	38	50	88	97
2014 Entry	36	2	Thatcher Demko	G	Boston College [H-East]	10	0	1	1	0
2014 Entry	66	3	Nikita Tryamkin	D	Yekaterinburg Automobilist [KHL]	79	3	8	11	74
2014 Entry	126	5	Gustav Forsling	D	Linkoping (Sweden Jrs.)	122	8	19	27	42
2014 Entry	156	6	Kyle Pettit	C	Erie Otters [OHL]
2014 Entry	186	7	Mackenze Stewart	D	Prince Albert Raiders [WHL]

 

By my count it's 5 top 10 players (including one that was drafted just last weekend) and 7 that have played 15+ games. Now Forsling and McCann were traded and Tryamkin went back to the KHL but they're all still Benning picks with 15+ NHL games. Both Demko and Hughes are guaranteed to pass your meager 15+ game mark next season. I suspect you chose 15+ to purposely exclude Demko and include certain players from other teams as it seems a rather odd choice to set. 

 

OVER 40 PICKS! Yes, if you include guys drafted last weekend. 

 

You are right about one thing: 

On 6/27/2019 at 3:47 PM, ItTakesAnArmy said:

Man don't let truth get in the way of a good story.

 

[Psycho_Path]

3 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Toughness isn’t about fist fights, though intimidation sure helps. I think you’ll readily agree. 

 

Injuries... pattern injuries... kept us out of the playoffs and contention for several years now, depending on which narrative or excuse is spun. 

 

Our IR mainstays are a predictable, thus manageable, roster issue. I’m not part of the camp who would rather find excuses to defend this for JB. I’ve said that for a few years running, as I’m sure some reading may recall, just in case somebody posts to reference this as hindsight. 

 

You’re so right, the Gods hate the Canucks. There is no luck here so forget any gifting of players to us. EP singlehandedly saved this franchise... and JB, IMO. A few more high picks was all we could hope for out of a rebuild, but I suspect that those days are over.

 

This is the next phase, a directional change I’m in support of, is necessary because of the lack of prospects available to support what’s already here. It will be a competitive bunch if JB can find some quality D and if Marky challenges for goalie of the year again. 

 

 

While I agree with you, even when we've traded for players that have typically been injury free: Sutter, Ballard (Ballard was 1 of the NHL ironman at one point before we acquired him), Booth, etc. they've gotten injured after coming here. And additionally, Benning has acquired tougher players via trade or signing or draft. Prust, Dorsett, Roussell, Beagle, Virtanen, Tryamkin.

 

Regardless, if you look at some of the injuries we get, toughness isn't going to help Boeser not fall into an open door, Burrows survive breaking his jaw by taking a puck to the face, etc.

 

Is there some players you think he should have targeted in the mean time? I suppose you'd have wanted us to sign Reaves?

Edited June 29, 2019 by Psycho_Path

[189lb enforcers?]

13 hours ago, Psycho_Path said:

While I agree with you, even when we've traded for players that have typically been injury free: Sutter, Ballard (Ballard was 1 of the NHL ironman at one point before we acquired him), Booth, etc. they've gotten injured after coming here. And additionally, Benning has acquired tougher players via trade or signing or draft. Prust, Dorsett, Roussell, Beagle, Virtanen, Tryamkin.

 

Regardless, if you look at some of the injuries we get, toughness isn't going to help Boeser not fall into an open door, Burrows survive breaking his jaw by taking a puck to the face, etc.

 

Is there some players you think he should have targeted in the mean time? I suppose you'd have wanted us to sign Reaves?

I wanted to sign RR since his first game, yes, not when he’s into his 30’s or has a playoff run, which is evidently typically the norm in here of how posters get exposed to other players. 

 

I’ve suggested several, maybe dozens, of players over the years, as many know.

Lowry, Edmundson, Fischer, to name a few. I’m always looking for the next Scott Hartnell or Foligno type or a Foote/Blake/Chara. 

 

I’m about out of ideas or suggestions these days. It’s like the injury story. Each year I say the same things and get some kind of excuse answer here and no change from Benning too. I wasn’t identifying with that club and even the new core is not what I’d call playoff-able in terms of durability; I’m not optimistic about their ability to survive 4 rounds of physical punishment. This is a subjective hypothetical, of course and offers no value here. 

 

I think we can agree to disagree about what JB should have done with his IR mainstays when the first early warning signs were there and about the timing of his addition of “tougher players to play against”. JB waited until last summer before getting any kind of grit and it’s was only on the bottom 6 and in Guddy, well until Schenn, a very pleasant surprise. This is why I’m happy about the Miller trade, despite my rebuild philosophy preference of acquiring/hoarding picks. 

 

IMO, JB waited too long to toughen this club up and also waited too long to deal his IR mainstays, especially Tanev. (The second that guy was healthy, circa 2016-present, he should have been traded) You can have results or excuses, not both. 

[clutesi]

I have no problem with Benning's draft record, it's been good in a very competitive business. His trades and player development is a mystery to me. Bringing in Green was a great step in player development. But losing McCann, Dahlen, and Tryamkin were blunders. It's not enough to draft well, the players are assets that should be developed. Several times now Benning's given away too valuable assets for little and signed for too long and too much. Why not keep Benning for scouting director, his strength, and get a manager to handle trades, contracts, and development?

[ItTakesAnArmy]

7 hours ago, clutesi said:

I have no problem with Benning's draft record, it's been good in a very competitive business. His trades and player development is a mystery to me. Bringing in Green was a great step in player development. But losing McCann, Dahlen, and Tryamkin were blunders. It's not enough to draft well, the players are assets that should be developed. Several times now Benning's given away too valuable assets for little and signed for too long and too much. Why not keep Benning for scouting director, his strength, and get a manager to handle trades, contracts, and development?

[Rush17]

I said this in the other benning thread but im going to repeat it here.

 

I find the media and a portion of the fanbase jumps on the Jim Benning is an incompetent GM bandwagon. It is very frustrating and largely dominates the radio waves in Vancouver. I love that we are much more upbeat and show some appreciation for him. It feels like there is a campaign to discredit and bring him down to his knees. It is disgusting and extremely frustrating. I feel bad for the guy because he is ruthlessly attacked by some people in this market. 1040 is brutal when talking about Jim.

 

We almost need a news article talking about this - I'm worried some of the old canucks fans coming back are going to jump on this "Benning is an idiot" bandwagon. Last thing we need is bandwagoners tipping over the apple cart when Jim is doing a fantastic job at accumulating young talent. 

 

 

Edit: Not all old fans coming are bandwagoners of course. but you know what I mean. hate to see Benning's tenure cut short due to arrogancence. Maybe our chants on fire Gillis have given members of this media the feeling they can walk all over new GM (Jim). I know he isn't the best talker but he is phenomenal at 75% of the job he does. Guy deserves a break and some appreciation. 

[Rush17]

... this short of crap that often gets pointed at Jim. I know this is probably in relation to the Canucks and Whitecaps but c'mon lol.

[CanadianRugby]

On 6/28/2019 at 4:42 PM, Smashian Kassian said:

Definitely deserves credit for drafting. Especially Pettersson. That one took some courage & because of it the outlook for this franchise has changed dramatically, like a complete 180 in 1 year.

 

The pro-side, for the most part, hasn't been good. That's a pretty fair criticism. And I think questioning the direction (first going for it, then giving into rebuild, now going for it again) is legitimate aswell. Although in complete fairness to Benning, I think that has as much, if not more, to do with ownership. If they said 'we need a longer, patient, rebuild' that's the path JB would've started on.

 

I don't think his tenure has been amazing outside the draft, but you can't take the core away from him. We're already seeing the benefits not just in having great players, but also starting to become somewhat of a destination for free agents again.

 

Whether Benning lasts long term, or is gone within a few years, I don't really care personally. Because I do have some questions about the pro-side. But he'll always get credit for putting those building blocks in place like Burke/Nonis did in the Gillis years.  

 

And I do appreciate his honestly as far as speaking to the media & fans. At times with Gillis he gave nothing, & trying to figuring out his stance on things was like trying to solve a mystery.

I agree with everything except that Vancouver is now a destination for free agents.  We've overpaid almost every one of them, sometimes in both dollars & years.  We're most likely to overpay once again for Myers.  How is that becoming a destination again?  

 

 

[Phat Fingers]

On 6/24/2019 at 10:46 PM, hammertime said:

if we go back to JBs biggest blunder the Eriksson signing this fan base asked for it I'm sure many includin ownership watched him perform with the Sedins and applauded the signing at the time. hindsight is a biotch.

No one saw Eriksson flopping this badly.  

[Alflives]

11 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

I agree with everything except that Vancouver is now a destination for free agents.  We've overpaid almost every one of them, sometimes in both dollars & years.  We're most likely to overpay once again for Myers.  How is that becoming a destination again?  

 

 

Petey attracts UFAs.  Yes, Vancouver is a phenomenal city too, but having Petey is the key.  

[steviewonder20]

2 hours ago, Phat Fingers said:

No one saw Eriksson flopping this badly.  

But many of us already fear signing Myers for 6 or 7 years and paying him as if he’s a top pairing D.

[CanadianRugby]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Petey attracts UFAs.  Yes, Vancouver is a phenomenal city too, but having Petey is the key.  

If that's true, Myers won't need to be overpaid.  

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

If that's true, Myers won't need to be overpaid.  

If we can sign Myers for Any number 7 million or less it is a good deal for us.  Petey attracts players for sure.  Anyone who gets to play with him will get more points.  Plus, playing below Petey means easier matchups.  

[Honky Cat]

15 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

I agree with everything except that Vancouver is now a destination for free agents.  We've overpaid almost every one of them, sometimes in both dollars & years.  We're most likely to overpay once again for Myers.  How is that becoming a destination again?  

 

 

A year or two ago, the Canucks wouldn't even have been in the conversation of signing Myers or Gardiner..Drafting a player like Pettersson makes a difference.

 

Don't most average to good UFA's get overpaid ?..Almost goes without saying.

[CanadianRugby]

58 minutes ago, Alflives said:

If we can sign Myers for Any number 7 million or less it is a good deal for us.  Petey attracts players for sure.  Anyone who gets to play with him will get more points.  Plus, playing below Petey means easier matchups.  

 

29 minutes ago, Honky Cat said:

A year or two ago, the Canucks wouldn't even have been in the conversation of signing Myers or Gardiner..Drafting a player like Pettersson makes a difference.

 

Don't most average to good UFA's get overpaid ?..Almost goes without saying.

How many free agents took less money to sign in Vancouver?  

 

OK now that we've named all of them, we can see that Vancouver/Petey aren't a hot destination spot for free agents yet.  

The Canucks weren't in the conversation for guys like Eriksson or Beagle either, but they got overpaid so they came.  

[Honky Cat]

6 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

 

How many free agents took less money to sign in Vancouver?  

 

OK now that we've named all of them, we can see that Vancouver/Petey aren't a hot destination spot for free agents yet.  

The Canucks weren't in the conversation for guys like Eriksson or Beagle either, but they got overpaid so they came.  

None,..they're not a SC contender..there's no incentive for any UFA to join any rebuilding team except for  cash and term.(or they wanted to play with the twins)

 

I never said Vancouver was a hot destination for UFA's..I did say that having EP (and a promising young core) now puts us in the 'conversation'.

Edited June 30, 2019 by Honky Cat

[iceman64]

On 6/24/2019 at 6:24 PM, Dixon Ward said:

Over the past few days I have been shocked at the local and national media and the fans for the negative pile-on of Jim Benning.

 

He has made some bad moves, yes.  He has made some bad trades, yes.

 

Name 1 GM who hasn't.  

 

He inherited a team that had Brendan Gaunce as it's only possible prospect who may ever make the NHL.  The drafting of the 10 years before him was the worst in the league.  He had aging superstars that he was not allowed to trade.  The owner stepped in when he did try to clear out some FA's for picks(Hamhuis).  Thanks to the stupid NHL lottery system he has fallen backwards in every draft he has picked in.  He had Bo Horvat and a bunch of old guys with NMC's.  

 

Under him we have done the following:

 

Brought along Horvat, Boeser, and Peterson into an enviable young core.  

Developed Markstrom into a number 1 and Demko to the point of challenging and Dipietro looking like a great future option.

Picked up Baertschi, Granlund, Leivo, Stecher, Goldobin to attempt to fill in the missing generation of Canuck draft picks.  

 

WE have a great prospect pool quickly moving to nhl readiness

 

Defence with realistice chance at NHL

Hughes(Top 2 D) this year

Juolevi(Top 3 D) later this year

Sautner (4-6 D) ready

Brisebois(4-6 D) ready

Woo (Top 4) 1-2 years

Tryamkin (Top 4) 1 year

Rafferty (4-6 D) close

Rathbone(2nd pair) 2 years

Utunen (5-7th D) 2-3 years

 

 

Forwards with realistic chance at NHL

Gaudette (top 9) now

Podkolzin (top 6) 2 years

Lind (2-3 Line) 1-2 years

Hoglander (2nd line) 1-2 years

Madden (2-3 line) 2 years

Gadjovich (3-4th line) 2 years

Lockwood (depth forward) 2 years

 

Goaltenders with a realistic chance at the NHL

Dipietro (Starter) 4 years

Kielly (backup) 2 years

 

He has now added JT Miller  who fits perfectly in our top 6.

 

So we have great long term depth in quality goaltenders.

We have 4-5 our our long term top 6 forwards.

We have some excellent bottom 6 forwards.

We have some quality Defensemen and are shopping for FA's.

 

From where he started and with the restrictions he has had, I think he deserves much better coverage.  Chiarelli started with McDavid, RNH and Draisatl and destroyed the team.  Shanaplan is now falling apart despite having much better luck in the lottery and having the top FA centre available for years fall in their laps.  They have terrible defence and are losing 2 of the ones they have.  They have 6 million in space to improve their blueline and signe 10mil+ Marner after losing out in the 1st round.  They are about to have 35$million committed to 3 forwards for the next 7 years.

 

Anyway, I know I will probably get skewered.  No I am not Jim Benning's biggest fan.  I think he has made some bad trades.  I just don't get the overwhelming $h!tstorm that the media and fans seem to want to inflict on him.

 

 

 

Well you should have been in my shoes after the JT Miller trade, i thought "i can't believe the canucks" no matter who is behind the wheel finally did something after all these years which solves a major problem that has only been solved once and partially again and never since until NOW!!! 

I still can't believe it but finally it's happened again but going to write an article on it when i get a chance but when you have been a fan for 42 years it's a huge relief! Stand by!   

[86Viking]

Not to hate on JB, but not sure why he deserves better. He took over a team that was over the hill and needed a full rebuild, we never got that. We needed to stock pile draft picks and trade away dead weight or older players, for the most part we did NOT do that. We spun our wheels trying to compete and gave out some bad UFA contracts when we should have stayed the course and rebuilt.

 

We drafted some talented players, to then turn around and trade them before truly getting to see what they could bring at the NHL level or as they developed in a lower league. Trading picks for other teams dead weight sometimes worked out for us but in the situation the Canucks were in they should have done the opposite. JB has some talent when it comes to scouting and that is where he should be, when it comes to trades or contract negotiations he has not done well.

 

I am disappointed that since he took over we have still lacked to improve our D, even a couple of our so called Lotto picks are TBD or might not live up to the hype of their draft selection. Other than the high 1st round picks, maybe add Gaudette but he is still raw in the NHL we have LACKED any success from rounds 2-7 to have made the leap into the NHL and be an impact player. Many teams have had players in those rounds that have made an impact and are core or soon to be core pieces going forward.

 

I like Jim, but don't think he is suited to be the GM. Maybe elevate him to Trevor's old job, he can still have input on scouting and drafting. We seem to have a young, promising future GM potentially in Judd Brackett. Maybe give him the rains or move him into the AGM role and bring in an old Vet GM to run things for a couple years?  

 

No GM is going to make all the right moves to please all the fans. I just think since he has arrived, he has traded unnecessary picks, targeted some unnecessary UFA and given up on some young players too soon. If he has just been a puppet to the Aquilini's then I feel sorry for him. I think a change is needed at the helm, keep JB around but shuffle him into a different role