RowdyCanuck Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 1 minute ago, GoodCanadianKideh said: I actually read that Burke made that trade because ticket sales were waning and ownership wanted a way to reinvigorate interest. It was a business decision and not necessarily a “best for the franchise” decision. George McPhee built the Capitals and the Golden Knights when they played each other for the Stanley Cup. That was a pretty interesting storyline! I would say that Burke inherited a good team in Anaheim and was lucky that Teemu Selanne wanted to play for the Ducks again (especially for $1 million). Niedermayer wanted to play on the same team as his brother and I seem to remember that Pronger (or his wife) wanted out of Edmonton and they asked to be traded to California. Overall, some good luck for a GM to inherit when coming to a new team. I really appreciate what Burke did to get the Sedins and his patience with them and allowing them to develop. But Burke was gone when Nonis traded for Luongo and there is no way we make the finals without Bobby-Lou back-stopping the team. The whole Burke experience in Anaheim is written well in an article here: https://flamesnation.ca/2014/01/26/brian-burke-the-anaheim-duck-years/ Burke left the pieces Nonis needed to make that trade for lou....if I remember right Bert was a big piece of that trade....Burke also drafted kesler and we would have lost to preds without kesler.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Bubble Man said: Who cares about the Oilers? I don’t get why everyone is so fixated on the Oilers or the Leafs. We have plenty of subject matter to worry about with this ghetto franchise. I agree. Should be looking at best case scenarios like the Hawks, Pens & Kings, and trying to copy what made them successful. But it's easier to point at the Oilers and say we'd be just like them if we didn't do this or that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyCanuck Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, Bubble Man said: Ok, where is the evidence than shows that’s how you build a winning culture? One could argue that losing creates a winning culture. If you have a few minutes go back and look at some of the videos of the Blues player interviews after winning the cup. Credit goes to rising from rock bottom. Actually, look at almost any interview in any sport. They all talk about their journey from bottom. Does winning really teach you to be a winner? There is no recipe for winning. The GM puts a team together with a coaching staff, it clicks and they win. You will never, ever find any evidence supporting a winning culture works or a throw them to the wolves culture works better than the other. Good management with a f’ing plan is what works Did I say winning? No I said fighting culture like when your backs against the wall and you digdown deep and keep going...your right there's no way to create a winning culture or the lighting would be better....it's about being hungry and wanting it the most....a fighting culture..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Man Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said: I agree. Should be looking at best case scenarios like the Hawks, Pens & Kings, and trying to copy what made them successful. But it's easier to point at the Oilers and say we'd be just like them if we didn't do this or that. I love how we actually are the Oilers but everyone is too proud to admit it. At least the Oilers have McDavid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyCanuck Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said: I agree. Should be looking at best case scenarios like the Hawks, Pens & Kings, and trying to copy what made them successful. But it's easier to point at the Oilers and say we'd be just like them if we didn't do this or that. The hawks locked up their skill guys and drafted power forwards and kept that pond stocked with them....I've said this before the Hawks have traded away more power forwards then the Canucks have produced.....the Kings were a big heavy team and their star players didn't mind doing something dirty to win....the Canucks are following that plan.... the Pens play in the east and that's a different beast all together.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Man Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said: Did I say winning? No I said fighting culture like when your backs against the wall and you digdown deep and keep going...your right there's no way to create a winning culture or the lighting would be better....it's about being hungry and wanting it the most....a fighting culture..... I’d go back and quote exactly what you said but I’m too lazy. Fighting culture? That’s like Dr. Phill nonsense. All we need is a GM that doesn’t take a huge crap every July 1st or when some cap strapped GM calls him trying to take away his draft picks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 46 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said: Sorry to break it to you but if you look at the standings from last few years, we were the Oilers. The reasoning from Benning was that the team was good enough to still win. It wasn't. The reasoning from fans was that we can't bottom out because it ruins prospects. It didn't. So spending those picks was a complete waste of assets. When you are a consistent divisional winner and Stanley Cup contender, you're spending your prospect pool & picks on winning. When you are a consistent bottom feeder you're consistently drafting near the top of the draft in each round. It makes sense the prospect pool was bad when he took over and it's good now. Though I think Benning only smells like roses on CDC. Yeah well what do you expect Rugby? We haven’t picked higher then five, EDM did how many times and we still have a better group of 21 and unders then they do. No problem with high expectations, but a few posters on here have ridiculous ones. My theory is if we polled the age group of anti-Benning guys most of them grew up watching the Sedins either in the WCE era or after and don’t have much perspective. What exactly did you expect to happen? Holland was considered the best or close to the best GM in the league for years and lost a lot of luster once Detroit finally payed the piper. Do they have a better team them us right now? How about CAR, they won a cup and since have to steep down to silly antics to get fans to come even though after a decade of missing the playoffs just clicked. Buffalo. ARI... these teams also have had experienced GMs but still aren’t relevant. Again it’s okay to have high expectations, I do too, I also have a realistic view on what we should expect and Benning has exceeded this so far. He came in and did exactly what he had to do to keep the “stale” core working. At the same time he didn’t go close to going all in otherwise we wouldn’t have had at least one first rounder plus plus each year. Complain all you want, that’s ok, but unless you make a more convincing argument aside from stating the obvious and hanging it over Bennings head and even the CDC its not going to make a difference in swaying things either way. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyCanuck Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Bubble Man said: I’d go back and quote exactly what you said but I’m too lazy. Fighting culture? That’s like Dr. Phill nonsense. All we need is a GM that doesn’t take a huge crap every July 1st or when some cap strapped GM calls him trying to take away his draft picks. Ha it's cause I actually did say fighting culture...the Hawks have a fighting culture they never give up and always fight to very end .....I agree he needs to stop trading picks but he can't really trade anything else can he? Prospects take time and if he trades them he sets us back even further....his ufa signings are kinda scary but I don't think his going to sign any more bottom six guys to three year deals cause he knows our young guns are going to be pushing soon.... Edited June 30, 2019 by RowdyCanuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomatoes11 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) Omg A much lower 2nd and 3rd to a non cap strapped team landed 27 year old Shaw. I repeat, much lower picks than our 1st and 3rd AND Tampa was cap strapped. Let’s hear all the weak justifications for this. Should be good! Edited June 30, 2019 by Tomatoes11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 20 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said: The hawks locked up their skill guys and drafted power forwards and kept that pond stocked with them....I've said this before the Hawks have traded away more power forwards then the Canucks have produced.....the Kings were a big heavy team and their star players didn't mind doing something dirty to win....the Canucks are following that plan.... the Pens play in the east and that's a different beast all together.... Those 3 teams also loaded up on high draft picks prior to their multiple cup runs. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Let me just clarify the first year to two years with Benning There are some people on here who think that a GM of any business is hired and just let go to his own demise I can tell you that is not so. Just like any other worker, he is given a set of general guide lines from the Board or the owner Over the next while, the GM, will be given tasks to do, out side of the day to day If he, completes those tasks, he will generally be given more and more rope, as he proves himself He will threw his learning curv, go back to management (owner/Board) for clarification He will actually do that through out his career, so that he can stay in sync with his ownership group Again, this is no different than in any other business..... But, it should be noted that the ownership/Board may at any time, change direction of the business on its own accord How ever, if the GM wants to change direction, he must go to the owner/board The very fact that both Linden and Benning were new and green, would indicate to me that the Aqualini's had a lot control over the first couple of years...………….. This is elementary and should be without question...….. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyCanuck Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said: Those 3 teams also loaded up on high draft picks prior to their multiple cup runs. They also sucked longer then Canucks have....and also Hawks had two top three picks and kings got a first overall and pens had three top three picks if iirc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) ...long time Canuck fan here, plus I'm a hockey guy...I've played it and more importantly coached it at a midget rep level and Senior Men level and have a few banners and medals to prove pass successes....plus I've gone through a bunch of training including getting my Advanced Hockey coaching level through BCAHA (getting top marks with Yearly planning and development). ...my experience with coaching at a competitive level brought some in sight to the game both strategy wise and player selection wise including matching up during a game...strategy and player selection go hand in hand to be successful and to have a successful team...because hockey is the ultimate team game where it takes all the talented individuals on the team to win... ...the first year of Jimbo's tenure, after the season ended, told me what I needed to know about where this team was going...and that was to the bottom of the league (bottom of the standings). ...I'm not a hater, however, I can be critical of his decision making and where he puts his priorities...in fact, his priorities seem to be all over the map...there has been very little method to his approach...to build a team, it needs to be done methodically. But in order to be methodical to build a championship team, a builder (Manager), needs to know where he has to put his emphasis to build a winner... ...here are a few names that are winners at all levels of hockey...Scott Niedermayer, Scott Stevens, Larry Robinson, Guy Lapointe, Serge Savard, Duncan Keith, Bobby Orr, Nicklas Lidstrom, Paul Coffey, Denis Potvin, Chris Pronger, Drew Doughty, Brian Leetch, Zdeno Chara, etc. All these players have one thing in common....in order to get this common denominator, Jimbo has failed in year one to three of his tenure. We shall see how Hughes, Woo, Tryamkin and OJ does in their careers, and in comparison, we shall see how Dobson will do in his career...by the way, Dobson is a winner (2 Memorial Cups, plus Gold Medal Team Canada)...this is the kind of player a team needs to win. ...back to my coaching experience, the teams that I won with all had good mobile and tough defenceman. Edited June 30, 2019 by Pete M 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Torts Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 1 hour ago, ItTakesAnArmy said: Just correcting your mistake, you are saying he is a winger, he is not. That changes the dynamic of the deal. Dude do your research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 1 minute ago, RowdyCanuck said: They also sucked longer then Canucks have....and also Hawks had two top three picks and kings got a first overall and pens had three top three picks if iirc. Yup, top picks matter. Though even that is debated by some Benning loyalists. You need top picks, and lots of picks in general as outside the top 10 it becomes more and more of a crapshoot. And you need a lot of prospects to make an NHL impact, can't just ride one or two guys. Of course you also need to win trades and work the salary cap like a surgeon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Torts Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 1 hour ago, ItTakesAnArmy said: Just correcting your mistake, you are saying he is a winger, he is not. That changes the dynamic of the deal. He plays wing or centre 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyCanuck Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said: Yup, top picks matter. Though even that is debated by some Benning loyalists. You need top picks, and lots of picks in general as outside the top 10 it becomes more and more of a crapshoot. And you need a lot of prospects to make an NHL impact, can't just ride one or two guys. Of course you also need to win trades and work the salary cap like a surgeon. I agree I wanted Jim to trade the Sedins for picks and sign players to one year deals like the leafs did so we could have acouple firsts instead of just one...his doing things the slow way but Jim usually hits on his First three picks...it's one of the reason I've stated I want Burke here....I've said before drafting has saved Jim's job or Judd has saved his job....I'm a fan of Jim's I like the Miller trade after i thought about it a bit and I trust Jims drafting but his trades don't sit well with me and that's where Burke is good in my books. Edited June 30, 2019 by RowdyCanuck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyHarry Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Bottom line is I like where this Canuck team is at. I’m not wasting my time or thoughts on long ago “what if’s” or “should haves” I like JB, he’s doing a good job imo. Go Canucks goo 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Benning has made some great moves and some boneheaded moves. Much like most GMs in the NHL. He’s drafted quite well, which does somewhat make up for the boneheaded moves, although trading some high end draft picks away seems like a bad idea, but I guess time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post J.I.A.H.N Posted June 30, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 30, 2019 I think that the first 2 years, we were not in any way, a re-building club We were a re-tooling club, at best I believe Aqualini thought this, and more importantly the Sedin's thought this Which is why, we invested in Eriksson, and it is why we traded away 2nd's for players Once the Sedin's proved to Aqualini that they were not going to be top end players Aqualini changed his tune, and Benning got more leash..... Up until that time, IMO, the Sedin's and Aqualini had as much say in the direction of the Canucks as did Linden and Benning......so Benning first couple of years, can not be totally accredited to Benning IMHO (either way) 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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