A main reason why Canucks (and Canadian Teams) haven't won a Cup since 1993

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, xereau said:

Here's the real reason. 7 out of 31 chance, and next year 32. Less than 25% chance each year. Then, couple that with the added pressure players play under in Canadian markets. This single reason, probably way more than taxes, chases the best UFA's away from Canadian markets. And then the brutal travel schedules of the four western most teams, your odds diminish even more. Of course, the last two are 'intangibles' but they are absolutely factors.

 

Just remember this: 20 of the St. Louis Blues were Canadian this spring.

There is one plus for Canadian teams though.  Our dollar is 25% less than the US dollar.  Players are paid in US dollars.  Those living in Canadian cities have 25% more purchasing power.  Their pay is deposited into their accounts in 

US funds, and they withdraw Canadian funds.  A guy making 2 million is actually making 2.5 million in Canadian dollars.  

[Nucker 67]

Tax shmax. Around 22% of the NHL's teams are Canadian. Those just aren't great odds. I would think things like: how nice the city is, how good the weather is and does the team have a chance to win, would be factors in star players deciding where they want to play. That practically eliminates places like OTT, WPG, EDM and CGY. 

[DADDYROCK]

When Toronto Comes to town for hockey night in Canada the Canucks have to cow tow to their schedule 4 pm game instead of the regular 7 pm game.This has to stop.

 

As far as taxes go since the baby-boomers generation and all the way forward to millennials have paid enormous amounts of taxes and it shows by how much most are struggling to get by.The Government has not helped because they work for Corporations and not people.

 

With Sports you have cities that are completely bankrupt and yet they build 500 million to 1 Billion dollar arenas(Detroit), because the tax payers haven't quite gone completely broke.

I haven't been to a game in years because I like to eat everyday not just Monday Wednesday Friday. Just can't afford it.

 

I hope the Canucks bring a few Stanley Cups to Canada and the province of B.C.,that would be absolutely great

[bloodycanuckleheads]

I like how you included federal tax on the Canadian side - and completely ignored it on the US side!

[Aladeen]

45 minutes ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

I like how you included federal tax on the Canadian side - and completely ignored it on the US side!

Was gonna come to say just this. Like does he really believe that if you live in Las Vegas you are exempt from income tax?  If that was the case people would only live in those states.

[mll]

André Ruel of CAA (Pat Brisson/JP Barry) was on a radio show to discuss Samuel Girard's new contract and was asked about taxation.  

 

He explained that NHL players are taxed based on the days they spend in any given city anywhere in North America.  He gave an example.  

 

If a team spends 3 days in Quebec to play Montreal and then goes to Calgary for 4 days - the player gets taxed 3 days in Montreal and then 4 days in Calgary.  When they are in New York - taxation is due in New York, when they are in Florida it's taxation in Florida etc.  All this is tracked over the some 180 days that a season lasts and the player gets taxed based on where he is any given day.   

 

It's in french at the 14min mark:

https://www.957kyk.com/extraits-audios/sports/238548/contrat-de-35m-lagent-de-samuel-girard-sans-tabou?

 

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, fecklund said:

appreciated 

 

Sorry I meant google NHL cap calculator for different teams .... one of the major agencies gives out a free one ... It’s interesting to note that below 4 or 5 there really isn’t much of a difference but past that it becomes significant...

[steve french]

I notice one aspect of recent Stanley Cup champions where Canadian teams face an obvious deficit. Rather than prominent free agents, they almost always have several very important players that they traded for. It's no secret that many players do not wish to be traded to Canadian teams, and block doing so, for reasons that have already been stated in this thread. Of course, that comes far below the often abysmal drafting and developing of Canadian teams in recent times.

 

The main reason probably comes down to the numbers thing. 7/31 ain't the greatest odds. We did have five runners-up since the Canadiens last won though.

[lmm]

3 hours ago, fecklund said:

Taxes.
Tax on taxes.
Taxed taxes on tax.
 

Welcome to Canada!
 

In the 1992-93 Season, the Montreal Canadiens defeated the LA Kings in 5 games to win the last Stanley Cup Canada has seen. 

Average NHL salary in 1993 = $570,000   USD
Average NHL salary in 2018 = $4,000,000 USD
 

I had a look at the tax rates in Canada (see link below), and when making the amount of money we're seeing by even "average" players, the total tax rate, Fed + Prov, seems to hover around 50%, regardless which Province you play in. Think about how high that number is for a second........

Now add in escrow fees that are set aside (15% last season), plus agent fees (4-10%), and you wonder how these guys are making any money at all playing in Canada.
 

Let's have a look at maximum tax rates in the US:
 

Alabama             5.0%    
Alaska                None          
Arizona               4.54%    
Arkansas            6.9%    
California           13.3%    
Colorado            4.63%    
Connecticut        6.99%    
Delaware            6.6%    
Florida                None          
Georgia               5.8%    
Hawaii                11.00%    
Idaho                  6.93%    
Illinois                 4.95%    
Indiana               3.23%    
Iowa                   8.98%    
Kansas               5.7%    
Kentucky            6.0%        
Maine                 7.15%    
Maryland             5.75%    
Massachusetts    5.10%    
Michigan              4.25%    
Minnesota            9.85%    
Mississippi           5.0%    
Missouri               5.90%    
Montana               6.9%    
Nebraska             6.84%    
Nevada                None          
New Hampshire    5.0%         
New Jersey          10.75%    
New Mexico          4.9%    
New York               8.82%    
North Carolina       5.25%    
North Dakota         2.90%    
Ohio                       4.997%    
Oklahoma              5.00%    
Oregon                   9.9%    
Pennsylvania         3.07%    
Rhode Island          5.99    
South Carolina       7.0%    
South Dakota         None          
Tennessee              2.0%         
Texas                      None          
Utah                        4.95%    
Vermont                  8.95%    
Virginia                   5.75%    
Washington            None          
West Virginia          6.5%    
Wisconsin               7.65%    
Wyoming                 None          
District of Columbia 8.95%    

And Bettman's running his mouth about "parity" ? Not only are american tax rates not even close to what we have in Canada, but 7 states have ZERO tax. 
Add to that ever player in Canada must be paid in USD on top of that all, and we have, what exactly???
How can ANY team in Canada compete with that? I don't care how much money you have (hi Toronto), that is just not sustainable long term. Are we looking at a future where there are no more NHL teams in Canada?
Teams only make the real money in the playoffs when they players don't get paid, but you have to shell out big $ just to get into the playoffs.
Wheels on the bus go round n round....
 

I was looking at this because of the recent talk about Boeser's camp looking at $9.24M per ($7M USD)
50% goes straight to the Province and the Feds.
Now you're down to $4.6M
Average 7% to agent. Now you're down to $4.27M
Escrow was at 15% withheld last year. Now you're down to $3.63M

And that's a top end player. Imagine how hard that hits a guy like Tyler Motte, making $925,000? 
Dude probably rents an outhouse in a Fraser Valley raspberry field and commutes to games in a rusted out old berry bus. 
 

If I'm wrong about any of this please chime in because looking at it the way I am, I don't honestly see how any teams in Canada can sustain any kind of winning culture and survive.

Tell me I'm wrong, please!


CDN tax link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_taxes_in_Canada
USA tax link: https://www.money-zine.com/financial-planning/tax-shelter/state-income-tax-rates/

but wait,

the 4 teams in the 0 tax states have only won twice while the 6 teams in the *.75 +% tax states have won 6 cups

 

why didn't you post the canadian tax rates by province?

[goalie13]

If my math is right there are 10 American teams that have not won the Cup since 1993 either.  That's more teams than in Canada.

 

I think it's just evidence that it's a hard trophy to win.

[Lancaster]

94 - Canucks vs Rangers went to Game 7.

04 - Flames vs TB went to Game 7.

06 - Oilers vs Hurricanes went to Game 7.

11 - Canucks vs Bruins went to Game 7.  

 

I'm sure that during that deciding game, the players were really focused on tax implications, lol.  

[CharlieChan]

The salary cap equalizes financially.

The other factor the canadian fan is fired up more vial social media & sports media to take things out managers, player & the city.

The canuck riots would have not happened in Vegas after they lost.

If a canadian team is doing well i need to pulled apart by the system.

I the states all the players are anonymous in  the city they are playing in

[Sygvard]

Athletic did a good breakdown of it. The difference doesnt come out as much, espescially if they have a competent accountant. There are well known accounting tricks (usually advised by teams during bargaining) that allow players on canadian teams to shift income and have it taxed at more favorable rates. 

 

You still cant quiiiiite compete with the 0 tax states. But we can come out comfortably middling. Ahead of places like New York. The issue exists, but it is overblown. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Sygvard

[morgo]

4 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Yes, & add to that two rule books. The bread & circuses are indeed rigged.

Never was it more apparent then in 2011. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by morgo

[Slegr]

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

There is one plus for Canadian teams though.  Our dollar is 25% less than the US dollar.  Players are paid in US dollars.  Those living in Canadian cities have 25% more purchasing power.  Their pay is deposited into their accounts in 

US funds, and they withdraw Canadian funds.  A guy making 2 million is actually making 2.5 million in Canadian dollars.  

I fail to see how this is a plus. The same thing that you buy for $2 US in the US will cost you $2.50 Canadian in Canada.

[Elias Pettersson]

So Luongo sh**ing the bed, Rome knocking out Horton, Hamhuis injuring himself trying to hip check Lucic and Kesler playing on one leg had to do with higher taxes?  

[shazzam]

10 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So Luongo sh**ing the bed, Rome knocking out Horton, Hamhuis injuring himself trying to hip check Lucic and Kesler playing on one leg had to do with higher taxes?  

obviously, Luongo couldn't handle the pressure of the tax

[Greenman Wannabe]

17 minutes ago, Slegr said:

I fail to see how this is a plus. The same thing that you buy for $2 US in the US will cost you $2.50 Canadian in Canada.

lol that item for $2.00 US that should be worth $2.50 CAN, you'll actually find in Canada for around 4.50 due to the fact we have less global buying power, and thus do not get things for the same rates that the US can. That and everyone here are greedy pigs.

[morgo]

26 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So Luongo sh**ing the bed, Rome knocking out Horton, Hamhuis injuring himself trying to hip check Lucic and Kesler playing on one leg had to do with higher taxes?  

It was hardly Luongo's fault, he had two shutouts for Christ's sake.  Wasn't his fault he was hung out to dry in Boston by a depleted blueline.

[Nurnge]

 The Main reason I think most Canadian teams haven't been top 4 in the league year after year is more because Canadian teams were more afraid of a Full blown rebuild and have strived to just make the playoffs and not be bottom feeders with half full buildings until Winnipeg did it now Toronto .  Ott and Ed  screw this thinking up but I just can't explain them but Bad management  Don't most of the Canadian NY and Cali  and a few others  also pay equalization payments ? If that is goes to a team with lower taxes wouldn't that make a  bit more of a difference