Tweaking Roster - Goldobin or Leivo Out?

[IBatch]

With the season about to start and too many forwards to keep in Vancouver soon it’s time to consider we should trade one rather then risk a waiver pick-up.  Both Leivo and Goldobin are guys that teams would likely pick - Schaller is a low risk drop - sending LE is an option too but I’m not certain giving him the Redden treatment is fair and think he’s  better off playing on the team at this point then anything - both to raise his stock and because if winning is the goal he’s better  Goldobin, Schaller, Leivo and Motte at this point.   

 

If I was JB I’d sign Goldobin to around 1 million and then let all the other GMs know he’s available and try and add a pick.   There’s no room for him anywhere but Utica and he’s too good to play there.    Leivo and Motte stay up for now - unless Goldobin is lights out in the pre-season in which case consider a Leivo trade.

 

Finally the team is at the point where we need to thin the herd - losing one won’t affect our depth as AG is also available and we might be the deepest middle six team in the league too. 

 

I know this has being discussed a lot in other threads - who specifically would you waive at this point and do you think we should trade one of our better fringe guys now rather then risk waiving them anyways and getting nothing later?

 

There is a bit of a breathing period with Rousell out,  when he’s back two of those four guys will definitely be out - assuming the teams healthy.  

 

From as simple asset management viewpoint I think the time to strike is soon, other teams are going through the same thing and a cheap player with some upside like Goldobin - might be just what some teams want at the moment (EDM) - 30 point players have value at that price point....he’s scoring at a 360 point clip compared to McDavids salary...worth a 3rd?  A fifth? Something is better then zero. 

 

 

[theo5789]

I'm not sure Goldobin gets picked up on waivers. A lot of similar players have been waive with similar stats to him. I don't teams are unaware of what's lacking in his game. So unless a team is short on players, I doubt they have him hold an NHL spot to try and develop further this early in the season. Perhaps mid-season someone would bite. Leivo on the other hand can at least play a bottom 6 role. He can be utilized in different roles much more so than someone like Goldobin who is offense or not much else (and even his offense hasn't been impressive thus far, but he does have skill and potential still that I would hope breaks out here at some point). If I'm left with this decision, then Goldobin is waived. If he gets plucked, it's unfortunate, but we also do have Perron and Boucher (and Lind) who would be in a similar circumstance. However, we also do have MacEwen and Bailey (and Gadjovich) to replace Leivo too, so it seems we have insurance either way but I think the odds are higher that Leivo gets taken on waivers. Either one will have to be attempted to be snuck through as late as possible while teams are mostly set though.

 

Really the only thing that worries me about Goldobin is how much does he factor into keeping Tryamkin around.

[mikeyman109]

12 minutes ago, IBatch said:

With the season about to start and too many forwards to keep in Vancouver soon it’s time to consider we should trade one rather then risk a waiver pick-up.  Both Leivo and Goldobin are guys that teams would likely pick - Schaller is a low risk drop - sending LE is an option too but I’m not certain giving him the Redden treatment is fair and think he’s  better off playing on the team at this point then anything - both to raise his stock and because if winning is the goal he’s better  Goldobin, Schaller, Leivo and Motte at this point.   

 

If I was JB I’d sign Goldobin to around 1 million and then let all the other GMs know he’s available and try and add a pick.   There’s no room for him anywhere but Utica and he’s too good to play there.    Leivo and Motte stay up for now - unless Goldobin is lights out in the pre-season in which case consider a Leivo trade.

 

Finally the team is at the point where we need to thin the herd - losing one won’t affect our depth as AG is also available and we might be the deepest middle six team in the league too. 

 

I know this has being discussed a lot in other threads - who specifically would you waive at this point and do you think we should trade one of our better fringe guys now rather then risk waiving them anyways and getting nothing later?

 

There is a bit of a breathing period with Rousell out,  when he’s back two of those four guys will definitely be out - assuming the teams healthy.  

 

From as simple asset management viewpoint I think the time to strike is soon, other teams are going through the same thing and a cheap player with some upside like Goldobin - might be just what some teams want at the moment (EDM) - 30 point players have value at that price point....he’s scoring at a 360 point clip compared to McDavids salary...worth a 3rd?  A fifth? Something is better then zero. 

 

 

Goldobin is where we disagree, hes not too good to be an AHL player. He hasnt proven it in San Jose's system and not here in Vancouver either. He has offensive skills no doubt but cannot play at both ends of the ice and doesnt score enough to make his defensive miscues unnoticeable.

Benning said he was talking to Loui all summer and there has not been a deal to be made. That isnt good for the salary cap crunch but it should remove all doubt that he shouldn't be in Utica.

I do however agree that trading Goldy for something is better than nothing. a 5th round pick is fine if thats what he gets us.

The players you mentioned , Goldy Schaller Motte and Leivo all were the ones hurt by the Ferland and Miller moves. Goldy is gone IMHO, Schaller is riding the bus as well in Utica. Motte makes the fourth line with Leivo being the guy I dont know where he fits. Unless he has a great camp I dont see him replacing Pearson or Baertschi. He may start in Utica as well.

Virtanen had better have a good camp as well or he might be the one dropping down the depth chart

[Alflives]

Goldy has more skill than Leivo, but Leivo can play in any role, which Goldy can’t.  

Loui is terrible.  I’d much rather keep the stick boy who smells like tape than Loui.  

[boziffous]

I'd waive Loui before I waive Leivo or Motte. I like Leivo as the 13th forward as I feel that he can slot onto any line and do a decent job. Motte definitely earned his place on the 4th line last year and I expect he will continue his hard working style of play. I think Goldy is gonna have to have a great preseason to pass Loui. With Goldobin it seems to be either top 6 or AHL and it looks like he may be hard pressed to crack the top 6 this year in Vancouver. Schaller would probably be first on the list of players to waive.

[brownky]

Ice the best roster from the players who show best at training camp.

 

If Goldobin beats people to a spot on the team, he should get the spot. If Eriksson does, he should get the spot, etc etc.

 

It's a nice place to be when we have players who are finally good enough to bump others from the roster, rather than ice the AHL-and-Friends lineup of a few years ago.

[theo5789]

18 minutes ago, boziffous said:

I'd waive Loui before I waive Leivo or Motte. I like Leivo as the 13th forward as I feel that he can slot onto any line and do a decent job. Motte definitely earned his place on the 4th line last year and I expect he will continue his hard working style of play. I think Goldy is gonna have to have a great preseason to pass Loui. With Goldobin it seems to be either top 6 or AHL and it looks like he may be hard pressed to crack the top 6 this year in Vancouver. Schaller would probably be first on the list of players to waive.

Leivo asked for a trade out of Toronto because he felt he was being underutilized. If he ends up being the 13th forward here, I imagine it won't be long before he wants out again. I personally think he could actually play a bigger role here, but certainly tough to find a spot right now until we see how chemistry in camp develops.

 

I agree with Motte. I can't see any reason that he would lose his spot. He did everything he was asked of and as long as he continues his full on effort, his spot should be locked barring injury.

 

Certainly don't see a spot for Schaller at this point and everything he should've provided has already been covered.

 

We do face the possibility of waiving Biega and hoping he passes through, but I think defensive depth is going to be important and Calgary looks like they're just waiting to pluck someone (although they might be looking for an LD instead). We have similar players that we will also be waiving most likely in Perron, Boucher, and Bailey to mitigate any loss at the forward position.

 

I'm sure we will face the annual why didn't we trade said player for a pick instead of waiving them and would only be worse if a player does get taken.

[bree2]

the problem is …….. Goldy and Boeser are not signed yet and neither will be at camp  if they are not signed. time is ticking down!!!!

[Elias Pettersson]

53 minutes ago, IBatch said:

With the season about to start and too many forwards to keep in Vancouver soon it’s time to consider we should trade one rather then risk a waiver pick-up.  Both Leivo and Goldobin are guys that teams would likely pick - Schaller is a low risk drop - sending LE is an option too but I’m not certain giving him the Redden treatment is fair and think he’s  better off playing on the team at this point then anything - both to raise his stock and because if winning is the goal he’s better  Goldobin, Schaller, Leivo and Motte at this point.   

 

If I was JB I’d sign Goldobin to around 1 million and then let all the other GMs know he’s available and try and add a pick.   There’s no room for him anywhere but Utica and he’s too good to play there.    Leivo and Motte stay up for now - unless Goldobin is lights out in the pre-season in which case consider a Leivo trade.

 

Finally the team is at the point where we need to thin the herd - losing one won’t affect our depth as AG is also available and we might be the deepest middle six team in the league too. 

 

I know this has being discussed a lot in other threads - who specifically would you waive at this point and do you think we should trade one of our better fringe guys now rather then risk waiving them anyways and getting nothing later?

 

There is a bit of a breathing period with Rousell out,  when he’s back two of those four guys will definitely be out - assuming the teams healthy.  

 

From as simple asset management viewpoint I think the time to strike is soon, other teams are going through the same thing and a cheap player with some upside like Goldobin - might be just what some teams want at the moment (EDM) - 30 point players have value at that price point....he’s scoring at a 360 point clip compared to McDavids salary...worth a 3rd?  A fifth? Something is better then zero. 

 

 

How do you figure Loui is better than Goldobin, Leivo and Motte?  Better at what exactly?  Leivo can play on any line, actually knows how to hit and can score goals too.  Motte is a perfect 4th liner you want on your team who gives you 100% every game and hits everything in sight.  Goldobin has more pure talent in one finger than Loui has in his whole body.  So not sure what Loui is better at than any of those 3.

 

Loui is a $6 million 4th line winger who can kill penalties.  He's a safe bet to clear waivers every day of the week and twice on Sundays.  He will either retire like he should or he can play in Utica for the next 3 years...

[theo5789]

5 minutes ago, bree2 said:

the problem is …….. Goldy and Boeser are not signed yet and neither will be at camp  if they are not signed. time is ticking down!!!!

Just gives us more time to assess who should be waived and "build" cap space. These bubble players should be hoping they hold out a bit longer so they can prove their worth at least to be valuable enough to be traded to another team or to hang onto a spot here.

[IBatch]

5 minutes ago, bree2 said:

the problem is …….. Goldy and Boeser are not signed yet and neither will be at camp  if they are not signed. time is ticking down!!!!

Agreed - which is part of the reason I hope we sign Goldobin so he can compete for a roster spot with the rest of the group - and either earn one or get traded out quickly.   

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Agreed - which is part of the reason I hope we sign Goldobin so he can compete for a roster spot with the rest of the group - and either earn one or get traded out quickly.   

Could JB and Holland have a deal in principle to trade Goldy for Puljujarvi based on both players signing NHL contracts before they’re traded?  

[IBatch]

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

How do you figure Loui is better than Goldobin, Leivo and Motte?  Better at what exactly?  Leivo can play on any line, actually knows how to hit and can score goals too.  Motte is a perfect 4th liner you want on your team who gives you 100% every game and hits everything in sight.  Goldobin has more pure talent in one finger than Loui has in his whole body.  So not sure what Loui is better at than any of those 3.

 

Loui is a $6 million 4th line winger who can kill penalties.  He's a safe bet to clear waivers every day of the week and twice on Sundays.  He will either retire like he should or he can play in Utica for the next 3 years...

Loui will retire and when he does he will have scored more goals and have more points then any of the others mentioned will have combined by the time they all retire most likely.  How does Goldy have more skill in his pinky when he’s probably on his way off the team and into a similar situation on another team? Running out of chances, one more is my guess.  LE can also move up and down the lineup...and shows at least as much as Leivo has in equal opportunities - it’s no coincidence that Pearson did well, LE was his line-mate too.  

 

People are overly critical of him - and he’s deserved a lot of it - but saying he’s a bum and is worse then these guys is silly.  I’m sure if he got the same amount of EP as Goldodin did (who’s so far shown periods of great play too - and he’s younger and has upside I will agree to that) his stats would have had a nice bump - that said he still outscored him despite playing most of the season in a defensive role - something Goldobin has shown very little use for.

 

From a TGs viewpoint he can save a million on Schaller too - why not play the best player?   It’s early yet and maybe camp establishes a pecking order - maybe LE doesn’t want to play a third or fourth line role anymore and gets fed up and leaves.   I’d agree Leivo has some upside but it’s not much.    Goldobin has proven he’s a PPG AHLer - maybe that’s his future - I really see no line where he fits on anymore unless they put Miller on the third line and Sutter on Beagles wing - doubt that will happen.  Maybe he just doesn’t get signed at all because they know there’s no future for him anymore here but as I said at least try and get a pick for him..

 

Motte is perfect for his role - won’t get waived.    

 

That’s I get what your saying - guess we will find out soon enough..

[canuktravella]

keep goldobin sign him cheap and then waive eriksson and schaller problem solved 

[Elias Pettersson]

4 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Loui will retire and when he does he will have scored more goals and have more points then any of the others mentioned will have combined by the time they all retire most likely.  How does Goldy have more skill in his pinky when he’s probably on his way off the team and into a similar situation on another team? Running out of chances, one more is my guess.  LE can also move up and down the lineup...and shows at least as much as Leivo has in equal opportunities - it’s no coincidence that Pearson did well, LE was his line-mate too.  

 

People are overly critical of him - and he’s deserved a lot of it - but saying he’s a bum and is worse then these guys is silly.  I’m sure if he got the same amount of EP as Goldodin did (who’s so far shown periods of great play too - and he’s younger and has upside I will agree to that) his stats would have had a nice bump - that said he still outscored him despite playing most of the season in a defensive role - something Goldobin has shown very little use for.

 

From a TGs viewpoint he can save a million on Schaller too - why not play the best player?   It’s early yet and maybe camp establishes a pecking order - maybe LE doesn’t want to play a third or fourth line role anymore and gets fed up and leaves.   I’d agree Leivo has some upside but it’s not much.    Goldobin has proven he’s a PPG AHLer - maybe that’s his future - I really see no line where he fits on anymore unless they put Miller on the third line and Sutter on Beagles wing - doubt that will happen.  Maybe he just doesn’t get signed at all because they know there’s no future for him anymore here but as I said at least try and get a pick for him..

 

Motte is perfect for his role - won’t get waived.    

 

That’s I get what your saying - guess we will find out soon enough..

That first statement is irrelevant in 2019.  The Loui of 4 years ago who signed a $36 million contract doesn't exist anymore.  Leivo has many more qualities at this point than Loui.  Goldy got almost as many points as Loui in only 63 games.  He still a young kid and has a chance to break out.  I'd rather take a shot at Goldobin than hoping Loui finds his game from 4 years ago.

 

It's all about making the playoffs this year.  Loui with his 3 hits last year isn't going to be a very good playoff performer.  Leivo and Motte are built for the playoffs.  Even Benning himself said Goldobin has the second most pure talent on the team, so even Benning is higher on Goldobin than he is on Loui.  Goldobin can be a great guy to have who can fill in on the top 2 lines.  There is still potential there so don't want to let him go until we are certain he can't contribute.  Loui's ship on the other hand has already sailed.  Unless there are injuries in pre-season he will be sent to Utica.  

[theo5789]

55 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Could JB and Holland have a deal in principle to trade Goldy for Puljujarvi based on both players signing NHL contracts before they’re traded?  

It doesn't help with our forward situation and we don't have a spot to keep to simply develop him anymore. We would be better off if he does play a year in Finland and then explore the options after. Goldy at least wants to be here and try to make a career for himself.

[Googlie]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Could JB and Holland have a deal in principle to trade Goldy for Puljujarvi based on both players signing NHL contracts before they’re traded?  

And a similar handshake deal to swap Boeser with Laine?  Reunite the 2 Finns?

[wildcam]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Could JB and Holland have a deal in principle to trade Goldy for Puljujarvi based on both players signing NHL contracts before they’re traded?  

I would like this trade, but Puljujarvi is not a top 6 forward  on Vancouver and would not be happy? 

[GhostsOf1994]

2 hours ago, mikeyman109 said:

Benning said he was talking to Loui all summer and there has not been a deal to be made. That isnt good for the salary cap crunch but it should remove all doubt that he shouldn't be in Utica.

Are you saying that benning tried moving L.E. all summer and not 1 out of 30 other teams wants him? Then you say he is too good for AHL?

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

That first statement is irrelevant in 2019.  The Loui of 4 years ago who signed a $36 million contract doesn't exist anymore.  Leivo has many more qualities at this point than Loui.  Goldy got almost as many points as Loui in only 63 games.  He still a young kid and has a chance to break out.  I'd rather take a shot at Goldobin than hoping Loui finds his game from 4 years ago.

 

It's all about making the playoffs this year.  Loui with his 3 hits last year isn't going to be a very good playoff performer.  Leivo and Motte are built for the playoffs.  Even Benning himself said Goldobin has the second most pure talent on the team, so even Benning is higher on Goldobin than he is on Loui.  Goldobin can be a great guy to have who can fill in on the top 2 lines.  There is still potential there so don't want to let him go until we are certain he can't contribute.  Loui's ship on the other hand has already sailed.  Unless there are injuries in pre-season he will be sent to Utica.  

It’s a possibility.   But I disagree that Loui is a dried up prune.   He’s definitely been called out by his statements.   If he’s a proud vet which I’m sure he is, he will go down swinging and won’t let Leivo or Goldobin or anyone take his spot because he is the better player.  Playing 14-15 mins mostly on the 3-4th line and the P.K. and scoring 30 points has value - can’t wait to see how Ferland or Miler or even Bear does on EP and Boesers line.   Loui is a Swiss Army knife  albeit a very expensive one, that we can’t trade without a bounce back effort - why not at least give him the chance?  Especially considering the others he’s competing for a spot with at this point look to be career AHLers.  TG relied heavily on LE to keep things going last year with our injuries and he did that.  He produced at a decent rate when he was given the opportunity - and when he started most of his shifts in the D-zone he got it out or helped get it out for the next shift.   Goldobin fell off a cliff once EP dried up and offered little.  Leivo is a small upgrade on Megna.   At least he’s more physical- but then Goldobin is soft margarine even compared to LE.  Yes he doesn’t hit but he does his board work well and gets pucks back often.  

 

I’m not being the devils advocate - I don’t like the LE deal either but I also don’t think he deserves all the hate.  That’s on recently re-signed JB if anything, if he was getting 3 or even what Sutters getting paid nobody would be complaining and this would even be a topic.  And at least he doesn’t miss games.   Despite the elbows and stickwork to the body which every player endures.   How many games has Sutter missed?  

 

We have the guy for three more years - might as well embrace it and give him a role that he can play to help the team.   One million means nothing with the cap the way it is and the savings to put him down doesn’t make sense either.  At least that’s how I see it.  Until his play regresses to the point he really is the 13th forward anyways.