[Discussion] BLOCKBUSTER!

[Crabcakes]

Reinhart is an RFA too....not a fan

[AriGold2.0]

9 hours ago, Bell said:

Why do people want to trade Brock.  The kid is a great player and his teammates seem to love him. If Pettersson has a bit of a slump are people going to want to trade him as well. 

Of all Canucks he's the 1 player that I'm not convinced will be a Canuck for life. He has Minnesota written all over him once he's a UFA.

[wildcam]

21 hours ago, captaincowbasher said:

So the trade winds are blowing and the RD that JB might covet is Buffalo's Rasmus Ristolainen; 6'4"/220lbs, 25 years old, that averages 225 hits and 35 points. He skates very well and could become the perfect fit with Q. Hughes and upgrade on Tanev. We would need to give them something from our lineup that we will miss, but I do have a solution to this. Buffalo also has a player that JB covets almost more than any other player in the NHL, and that is Sam Reinhart; Vancouver boy, 24 years old, 6'1"/ 200lbs, 55-65 point per season and played Junior with Bo Horvat, and would be a perfect fit with Bo. So here's the deal I propose;

 

Boeser- really sad to see him go, but he and Eichel would tear the East up.

Stecher- Quality character guy, and fits well as the second RD on that team. Will fit well with B.Montour.

Demko- Would probably be earmarked as their future starter and best goalie prospect.

 

To Buffalo for;

 

Sam Reinhart.

Rasmus Ristolainen

 

JB hopefully signs T. Toffoli 5 years @ 5.25 mil/ season and our top 2 lines are set. With young studs like Hoglander and Poldkolzin pushing for Pearson's spot this will be a super competitive team for the next decade.

A guy like B. Rafferty looks ready to slide in and take Stechers role as a 2nd pairing position, and this is a huge upgrade, as far as speed and skill. Also, it gives Edler an opportunity to become hyper focused on being that super stud in his own end. This gives T. Myers the role of grooming OJ on the 3rd pair, and I believe that they actually will become over the year the true 2nd D pair.

 

Line up;

Miller- Petersson- Toffoli

Pearson- Horvat- Reinhart

Hoglander- Gaudette- Virtanen

Motte- Beagle- Sutter

 

Hughes- Ristolainen

Edler- Rafferty

OJ- Myers

 

Flame away... 

 

That is the kind of trade that must be made..

I have been saying for 2 months our defence is weak and older..Tanev 31 in December and his body has had series injuries..Edler 34 plays way to many minutes..

Been saying trade from position of strength wing..Miller, Taffoli, Boeser, Pearson, Virtanen, Ferland,  Leivo, Roussel, MacEwen, Motte, Pdkolzin, Hoglander, Lind...

If we can sign Taffoli 4 yrs X 4.9 million..Taffoli will produce 30-- 35 goals -- 63-- 67 points playing with Petey.. Taffoli plays a complete 200 foot game..

Then we trade for top #2 D man like Ristolainen big 6'4 under 26 logs 23-25 mins and supports Hughes..

Perfect trade....

Really like this type of trade, we would be  a much better team...

 

I even like Boeser  Buff --- Ristolainen 25, 6'4, 40-50 PTS logs 23 -25 mins and 3rd rounder ...

 

Might be hard to get Reinhart in package -- I would move Demko for this type of player and move....

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by wildcam

[JeremyCuddles]

I love Reino but I am not interested in moving Boeser. And if we do I'd hope we would do him a solid and send him to Minnesota. We don't have very many snipers. Boeser is one of the few. On top of being arguably the classiest guy on the team. I just don't feel right moving the guy.

 

And I do wonder how high they are on Luukonen in net. He's 21, so he's still a few years away from really making a splash but still. He was drafted in the 2nd round like Demko. Them taking Demko for Risto largely depends on how they feel about Luukonen going forward.

[Ballisticsports.]

I like this trade with either of Boeser or Jake (prefer to keep Jake) for a top pairing defenceman (with or without Reinhart or Demko included)

I think with Boeser you are selling high

I like Brock how can one not?

He has been hurt , he doesn't seem to one time it and takes so long, (maybe that is why his shooting % has dropped every season of his career so far)?. This that has to be of some concern for a sniper?, especially with the opposing teams not focusing on Brock with EP and Hughes out there, his rate should be climbing and surprisingly his % went from 16.2% to 12.4% to 9.5% this season (hopefully not a trend )

As has been mentioned you need to move quality to receive quality. I don't think we've seen the best of Jake yet and he is projecting up, while not playing with the elite on the team, and comes at a cheaper cost, (with our elite in need of raises soon)

In the old days before a cap system we keep all our forwards (well the important ones) and have it all , in a cap system, tough choices have to be made, where to spend the cap

 

[vannuck59]

Brock for Ristolainen straight up but Buffalo retains 1 million in salary . Stecher and Demko for Zadina from Detroit 

 

[qwijibo]

30 minutes ago, vannuck59 said:

Brock for Ristolainen straight up but Buffalo retains 1 million in salary . Stecher and Demko for Zadina from Detroit 

 

Top 4 D are worth way more than top 6 wingers.  Buffalo doesn’t do that straight up, let alone them retaining.  
 

Zadina likely has a lot more trade value than that, but I doubt they have any interest in moving a 20 year old former 6th overall before they really get a chance to see what they have in him 

Edited June 6, 2020 by qwijibo

[captaincowbasher]

On 6/4/2020 at 8:08 PM, Crabcakes said:

Reinhart is an RFA too....not a fan

It doesn't matter if your a fan...sorry. It's JB thoughts that matter, and he absolutely loves Reinhart. These are the types of players you win championships with.

[Battlemonger]

Boeser for Makar straight up. I can dream.

[elvis15]

On 6/4/2020 at 7:19 PM, Pears said:

He had at least 10 games left before the season was cancelled who’s to say he couldn’t have at least matched those numbers?

He could have gotten worse too. Not that it answers the question of if it's worth paying in assets to get him, or that they should use those assets for something they need more.

[Patel Bure]

5 hours ago, Battlemonger said:

Boeser for Makar straight up. I can dream.

Avs laugh and hang up.

[scheif16]

Boeser stays

[Ballisticsports.]

On 6/6/2020 at 9:12 AM, qwijibo said:

Top 4 D are worth way more than top 6 wingers.  Buffalo doesn’t do that straight up, let alone them retaining.  
 

Zadina likely has a lot more trade value than that, but I doubt they have any interest in moving a 20 year old former 6th overall before they really get a chance to see what they have in him 

Generally speaking I agree, but certain wingers (especially if acquiring young still get great trade value)

Kucherov, Ovechkin, Hall, Kane, Marchand, Laine, Giroux, Benn, Wheeler, Panarin, Tarasenko, Pastrnak, Foresberg.Tkachuk etc

[IBatch]

Two things about Ristolainen - he’s feasted on the PP, where he gets around half his points, and he’s had some dreadful minus seasons (all of them so far - part of that is a bad team -  but he’s usually at the bottom of the list compared to his teammates).   I don’t think that’s what Hughes needs as a partner - ATM JB is working on a one year deal with Tanev, I think that would be perfect for the current cap and the ED draft looming.  Won’t have to protect either Edler or Tanev - where as we would have to use one of our spots for Risto if we did acquire him given he’s the main reason for the trade.  
 

Ristolainen should get better - he’s no longer their top RHD that jobs Dahlins,  it’s not the worse idea in the world - but I have to wonder how his gaffes would be treated by our fan base given how Myers did after one year.   And it’s not like he was a -45 or something- during a season where at one point Buffalo led the entire league (thanks to Hutton).   Nothing wrong with a minus 2, I suppose this year not facing the leagues best did wonders for him.  I’d be cautiously optimistic if we acquired him...would prefer Dumba but injuries matter I suppose.    
 

It is a blockbuster that’s for sure.  

[IBatch]

On 6/5/2020 at 3:02 AM, wildcam said:

That is the kind of trade that must be made..

I have been saying for 2 months our defence is weak and older..Tanev 31 in December and his body has had series injuries..Edler 34 plays way to many minutes..

Been saying trade from position of strength wing..Miller, Taffoli, Boeser, Pearson, Virtanen, Ferland,  Leivo, Roussel, MacEwen, Motte, Pdkolzin, Hoglander, Lind...

If we can sign Taffoli 4 yrs X 4.9 million..Taffoli will produce 30-- 35 goals -- 63-- 67 points playing with Petey.. Taffoli plays a complete 200 foot game..

Then we trade for top #2 D man like Ristolainen big 6'4 under 26 logs 23-25 mins and supports Hughes..

Perfect trade....

Really like this type of trade, we would be  a much better team...

 

I even like Boeser  Buff --- Ristolainen 25, 6'4, 40-50 PTS logs 23 -25 mins and 3rd rounder ...

 

Might be hard to get Reinhart in package -- I would move Demko for this type of player and move....

 

Ristolainen was getting a lot of his points on the PP.   Still produced ok without them too but unless he’s getting them here I wouldn’t expect 40 points from him...

 

You should see what the Sabres fan on this site thinks of Risto and how fair the trade is.   I seriously am curious.   Couple that with a dreadful plus minus his entire career (yes Buffalo sucked - Edler has some bombs too, as did Tanev but not THAT bad) I’m really unsure whether he’s not just a worse version of Myers ... or like TO’s mainstay that had no takers and then signed for around 4 million in CAR.    He’s a top four D on a bad team, but his defensive game has always been suspect.   Not a great partner for Hughes that’s for sure.  I’d rather have a solid defensive defenseman like Manson paired with Hughes - or just keep signing Tanev until that is no longer the best option (some big miles on his body - but a big part of that was because we didn’t have anyone else - now we have Myers also munching hard minutes and it’s helped for sure).  
 

Reinhart is a good winger in his own right - but I also wonder how many points he’d get without Eichel padding his stats.  I’m sure BB would do better then Reinhart. 
 

Risto is five years younger then Tanev so that’s a big plus.   At the same age I’d say the value is comparable.   Maybe Ristolainen would be a great fit - or maybe he won’t.    I think BB in his prime will be a consistent 35-40 goal guy, around a PGP.   Which happens to be what the Sedins managed all but two of their prime years.   He’s already got a similar career PGP and GPG as D Sedin.     Point is there is some risk with this trade in losing the better player.  
 

All in all not a terrible trade.   Risk reward I suppose.  
 

Edit:  On Toffoli.   The only year he broke 50 points was his last contract year.   He’s a serviceable middle six vet who plays the game the right way - there is no denying that.   That said there is no certainty he’s going to be a 70 point player for us either.   Pearson lit up the lamp too his first couple weeks with us and hasn’t disappointed since either (although that line pads their stats with EN goals a lot).    I doubt he’s going to pull a Marchand and become a top player on a line with EP and Miller but do think 60 points is doable (despite being 20 points or so above his career norm).    4.9 x 4-5 does seem about right though (have read he could demand 7 which is pure lunacy - adios on anything more then 5.25 IMO).    BB as a rookie was on pace for close to 40 goals.   Injuries have slowed him down...Skinner is a good comparable IMO - a former Calder winner who also went through a series of concussions early on which de-railed him somewhat but despite that put up very good numbers his entire career.  BB has more upside then TT and Risto.   I wouldn’t trade him unless it’s for a top pairing D around the same age or at most a few years older.   Parayoko, Sanhiem, Provorov, Dumba etc.   Otherwise just keep him.   Risto isn’t really a great fit IMO.   Maybe paired with Edler I don’t know - but Q Hughes is a rover who needs a guy just like Tanev backing up his risk.   Lumme Murzyn .... some of our best D pairings ever had one watching the Fort so the other could roam around. 

Edited June 9, 2020 by IBatch

[IBatch]

On 6/7/2020 at 10:26 AM, Battlemonger said:

Boeser for Makar straight up. I can dream.

For at least another season this is about the only type of deal that I would be happy with as far as trading BB goes.    It better be lopsided big time in our favour or no thanks.    Neely..lets just says it’s too early to really know what we have with Brock.  He’s a leader, extremely well liked in the locker room and great with fans.    We all watched him seemingly score at will before the all-star game (which he did the best display of accuracy I’ve seen yet, and was MVP).    He’s just getting started...at worse he’s peaked and all we get is a 30ish goal scorer ahh shucks.   At best he’s a future rocket Richard Trophy winner and ends up there with Naslund and Bure as one of the best snipers we’ve ever had.      His shot reminded me of Hulls his first year - it was that hard and spot on.    BB will get stronger that’s a fact.   His injuries should heal and hopefully it was just bad luck (well two of them were bad luck so I’m going with that).   Speaking of Rocket Richard he also started his career with some bad luck and injuries - good thing the Habs didn’t give up on him too early - and neither should we.    Most have been super patient with JV...BB not so much.  

[Ballisticsports.]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

I wouldn’t trade him unless it’s for a top pairing D around the same age or at most a few years older.   Parayoko, Sanhiem, Provorov, Dumba etc.   Otherwise just keep him.

 

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

    We all watched him seemingly score at will before the all-star game (which he did the best display of accuracy I’ve seen yet, and was MVP).    

 Most have been super patient with JV...BB not so much.  

I agree with you on for a top pairing D position, otherwise keep him

 

I think the ref. to a One Time Event is overated as a ref. to BB and not really that important ( his shooting % going down every year and 9.5% this year) and more entertaining, who in their own life has had a day where they could do no wrong? That was BB's day like that. I myself would on certain days never miss a target, all people have days like that, John Scott who shouldn't have been at an all star game did as well

BB was loved from day 1 unlike JV. The only reason people mention BB in trade, is because Canucks would Never trade EP or Hughes and in a cap world you can't keep everyone, and it hurts to be paying huge dollars to people in the minors, on the 3rd or 4th lines or sitting out and according to JB we have people he wants to bring up

We appear to be strong on forwards and weaker on defence, Goal looks good (although i had a ALC injury and knee never as strong) maybe Marky, will be 100% with better training, but harder position on knee too i think

 If you want to build your team stronger, you can buy (we can't)

Trade picks (we've done that already0

Trade assets from positions of strength

B.B gives us our best opportunity to get the similar player in a D role

If we can't get that, then lets keep him

[scheif16]

 

We should never seperate those two studs.

#nevertradingtheflow

[IBatch]

On 6/5/2020 at 12:28 AM, AriGold2.0 said:

Of all Canucks he's the 1 player that I'm not convinced will be a Canuck for life. He has Minnesota written all over him once he's a UFA.

Well we could have him for 10 more years if after this contract is up, he’s still an RFA and could extend him another 8 years.   He’s at least sign another 3 year deal on the low side - which would mean we’d of had him for ten years since his draft on the low end of things.  It’s one of the reasons I was a big fan of his medium size bridge deal.   So I wouldn’t be so sure about it - and even if it does happen we will have enjoyed most of his prime years.   If this team does some good things playoff wise - which it has at least a decent chance, not sure he’d want to go anyways.  By then his own family could be started and a decade in one place sets some roots.

 

Im sure he will leave or get traded at some point - it’s rare now for players to stay in one place.   But he’s our pick and we hold all the cards for most of his 20’s regardless which is awesome.   Also if he does stay his UFA deal will be based a lot on past production - losing him at that point wouldn’t be so bad. 

[IBatch]

On 6/9/2020 at 1:35 PM, ba;;isticsports said:

 

I agree with you on for a top pairing D position, otherwise keep him

 

I think the ref. to a One Time Event is overated as a ref. to BB and not really that important ( his shooting % going down every year and 9.5% this year) and more entertaining, who in their own life has had a day where they could do no wrong? That was BB's day like that. I myself would on certain days never miss a target, all people have days like that, John Scott who shouldn't have been at an all star game did as well

BB was loved from day 1 unlike JV. The only reason people mention BB in trade, is because Canucks would Never trade EP or Hughes and in a cap world you can't keep everyone, and it hurts to be paying huge dollars to people in the minors, on the 3rd or 4th lines or sitting out and according to JB we have people he wants to bring up

We appear to be strong on forwards and weaker on defence, Goal looks good (although i had a ALC injury and knee never as strong) maybe Marky, will be 100% with better training, but harder position on knee too i think

 If you want to build your team stronger, you can buy (we can't)

Trade picks (we've done that already0

Trade assets from positions of strength

B.B gives us our best opportunity to get the similar player in a D role

If we can't get that, then lets keep him

Can’t disagree with any of that.  For me the deal would have to be like the Seth Jones one or no thanks.   BB shooting percentage is too low - he’s had some bad luck on that front for sure.   I’d expect it to go up.   His passing game has improved, as has his board work and play on the other side of the puck which evens things out a bit.   After his rookie year and his 40ish goal pace - All-Star game heriocs etc I was pretty convinced we’d acquired a special player.   Still do.  We may have a glut of middle six forwards, but we don’t yet have enough core players including BB in it.   To me he’s like Sharp was for CHI. Great looking dude (ha ha) scoring winger with potential or one day challenge for a Rocket Richard.   He’s going to put the work in to get a big legacy contract with us ... and I’m expecting a 35-35 performance from him next season.   Miller and EP will no doubt help him with that.   Given he’s played on two different lines and still produced well he’s a keeper for sure.   
 

Look how long it took Naslund (27) and the Sedins (29-30) to explode.   BB best seasons are definitely still ahead of him, would hate to see him go for a “top four” defenseman - would rather get one for free like we did with Myers once the money is available (which it will be).

 

Edit:  and for all those who have dreams of Dumba or Parayoko or whomever .... in what I’d perceive as an down year for BB he was still the 4th best RW producer in the entire league when he went down.   Hope he scores 20 goals for us this playoffs and puts this all to rest ha ha. 

Edited June 12, 2020 by IBatch