Why not just clear Loui’s contract by attaching a 1st like the Leafs did?

[Comeback_Kings]

in the meantime, the 2020 Stanley Cup Finals...  Canucks will be icing an excellent team.

 

miller pettersson boeser
pearson horvat tofilli
virtanen  gaudette sutter
motte  beagle  eriksson  

 

hughes  tanev
edler  myers

fantenberg  stetcher

markstrom

:

 

 

[EP40.]

8 hours ago, Setyoureyesontheprize said:

Loui is having a resurgent season hope it carries into the playoffs and into next year. His contract is what it is but if he can play hard and with the  same jump he had late this season he’ll be serviceable for us. 

Let’s please not do go down this road lol. Resurgent as in he’s not completely useless anymore? Sure he barely gets the nod there. Resurgent as in reflecting his salary-to-play ability? Not even close. All while he holds the team hostage financially and is putting our youngsters long term futures at risk in Canucks sweaters.

 

 

5 hours ago, Quantum said:

We shouldn't do this because drafting has been a strength for the Canucks

Enough of this double standard as well. This wasn’t said when we dealt the 1st for Miller.

 

Our recent scouting successes has allowed us to have stocked prospect cupboards to be able to afford moving out some picks to help the team out. Whether that’s adding a Miller or using it to move out an Eriksson to be able to keep our core together, there shouldn’t be this hypocrisy. It’s a product of our great scouting (mostly later on as early picks are almost a given...later on in drafts is where the differences lay for the most part) so we may as well go both feet it and do it right...what would the purpose be in adding Miller if it meant we had to stop there and couldn’t use any future pick(s)/prospect(s) to keep a Boeser over Eriksson? Wouldn’t make much sense.

 

 

1 hour ago, Comeback_Kings said:

Is this our future ?   EP40 & HUGHES not signed, sitting out in their prime; meanwhile, * Eriksson refuses to retire.

Agreed! Maybe won’t reach that extreme but his contract is clearly a hindrance to our youngsters futures starting with Boeser.

[King Heffy]

2 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

It's either a high pick or quality young player/prospect to help shed cap unfortunately.

 

Could see a player like Demko/Gaud go or a prospect like OJ/Lind if we are not willing to get rid of 1sts/2nds

Personally I prefer Demko as we are likely to lose him in the ED and DiPietro looks very promising and fits our timeline better if we can retain Marky. 

[IBatch]

13 hours ago, mll said:

Doubt it.  They won't have any trouble reaching the floor.  Adding Eriksson just adds unnecessary spending and increases Melnyk's losses.  Owners are set to lose a lot of money next season with no fans in the stands.  Melnyk was also on record saying he does not want to spend more than the strict minimum until 2021-22.  He doesn't need Eriksson to spend to the minimum and will have him another year when they are looking to compete.  In a more recent interview he said he wanted to compete this coming season.

 

Ferraro today was saying no team is going to take Eriksson with a 1st round pick.  Teams simply don't have the cap space to take on such a contract.  He also has that extra year when the cap isn't expected to move.  

 

Melnyk said he doesn’t want to spend to the cap again until 2020-2021, there is a bit of a difference but I do agree that is a dead horse that won’t get up (LE to OTT plus whatever).     And that most teams won’t have the cap space for two years of LE (and have to wonder why the few that might would want LE instead of a better one year deal like Marleau was).   Like it or not I don’t really see ourselves getting out of this one without trading a key player.    NJ could afford LE .... 

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, King Heffy said:

Personally I prefer Demko as we are likely to lose him in the ED and DiPietro looks very promising and fits our timeline better if we can retain Marky. 

This won’t happen before the season starts unless Markstrom is injured right away and Demko wins us a cup.    Demko needs to improve his play significantly for any team - including Detroit and OTT who are the most likely targets - to consider trading for him and using up their one goalie spot...not impossible but very unlikely.  

[Chris12345]

12 hours ago, gurn said:

No, he doesn't. He is not an idiot so there would be no need to say that.

Nobody foresaw the huge drop off in Louis play. The signing was a bit high and a bit long, which has become common practice with free agents, especially when signing with a team that was on the way down the rankings.

Lots of people disagreed with the signing.

 

I don't hate Jimmy but that was bad. Yes, he has to walk into the boss's office and ask for money. That's not easy.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Chris12345

[IBatch]

13 hours ago, samurai said:

wonder if instead of Demko you do Oli instead?   Demko was just starting to heat up.  He is a huge asset for this club either in net or as a trade option.   Part of a salary dump is a no go.  

He would be if the ED wasn’t looming.   Not many teams would protect him at this point - definitely could change if he improves but doubt we’d find a taker until at least half way through next season, and only if his numbers are at least around the league average. 

[Timbermen]

5 hours ago, Comeback_Kings said:

Is this our future ?   EP40 & HUGHES not signed, sitting out in their prime; meanwhile, * Eriksson refuses to retire.

i doubt it, they'll be looking at solutions every day till they have to sign them. They still have a buy out slot and when Spooner comes off the books, they'll have another one. maybe they buy out Baertchi this season and Ericksson next season when Spooner's is over. NHL should wake up and fix that stupid Luongo penalty too.

[IBatch]

I know LE is a sore spot for a lot of fans. If he just played like most expected him to since he’d at worst be a good middle six forward still for us - in the same realm as Pearson and TT... unfortunately that’s not the case.   We do need him off the cap, if all it cost us was a first for two years I could I’m still not sure I could stomach that.     Don’t know how JB is going to juggle this off season but I’d expect there is a good chance we won’t re-sign TT, Leivo and or if we do then JV will be traded with one of Roussel or Pearson - at the very least.    We won’t be able to ice the same team .... given most cap teams planned for a standard annual cap increase a lot of them - including us - will be scrambling.   On a positive note UFAs won’t be getting the same deals either.   Smaller money and less term.   It’s very possible it could cost 2m less then expected to sign TT and Markstrom- say 4.5x 3 and 5 x 5.   Tanev won’t command much of a raise either if any.   
 

One of the three trades NJ media made after the fake news JB was shopping BB included BB and LE...for a first and a good prospect...I hated all three of their proposed trades and loved JB remarks but until next season starts and all the work left to deal with these contracts is done I do understand a lot of ideas will be floating around.   I do think that after this next season LE will take the high road and retire.    Would be extremely unfortunate for our team if we paid a huge premium for one season.   Pearson makes the most sense to me IF we re-sign TT.  If we don’t the pain might not be so bad .... GMs will be very reluctant to overspend for aging vets and past production this offseason.  Some UFAs might need to take pay-cuts just to get a deal.   

Edited July 15, 2020 by IBatch

[mll]

53 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Melnyk said he doesn’t want to spend to the cap again until 2020-2021, there is a bit of a difference but I do agree that is a dead horse that won’t get up (LE to OTT plus whatever).     And that most teams won’t have the cap space for two years of LE (and have to wonder why the few that might would want LE instead of a better one year deal like Marleau was).   Like it or not I don’t really see ourselves getting out of this one without trading a key player.    NJ could afford LE .... 

NJD also want to get better.  Shero was fired because they missed the playoffs - ownership was talking about how they had assets to make trades to improve.   Fitzgerald might have bought himself some time but they need to show progress.  Fitzgerald talked of making deals like the ones they did to get Palmieri and Johansson where they traded draft picks for them.  I don't see the Canucks able to move Eriksson and create cap space. 

 

[IBatch]

21 minutes ago, mll said:

NJD also want to get better.  Shero was fired because they missed the playoffs - ownership was talking about how they had assets to make trades to improve.   Fitzgerald might have bought himself some time but they need to show progress.  Fitzgerald talked of making deals like the ones they did to get Palmieri and Johansson where they traded draft picks for them.  I don't see the Canucks able to move Eriksson and create cap space. 

 

I don’t see us doing that either.   Unless by some miracle he has a stellar bounce back season - I think there are good odds that he will retire at the end of the next season too.    Just mentioned the only bright side with the cap remaining flat is that this crop of UFAs won’t find it easy cashing in either.   Half the teams have cap issues ... sure a few teams will swing some cap dumps - maybe we will be one of them (I hate that idea for the most part rather we didn’t go there). 
 

The only players we have that aren’t part of the core that we could make a trade for and get something back are Pearson and JV.   JV doesn’t make sense given his age and his production per minute is very good.   And that his raise won’t be a big one.  But if we did manage to sign TT it’s possible for sure - in that case we keep Leivo.    I would hate to trade Sutter with Lind just for one year of savings... rather promote him to shore up the loss of Pearson.   Trading Pearson and not re-signing Leivo and Stecher and going with cheaper options (Lind and Rafferty) would allow us to sign all the rest ... yes our team won’t be as good but it was never going to be even without Covid .... and the cap not might equal the reduced salaries all these guys would have got anyways.  Predict Tanev 1 year at 4.5-5, TT 4.5-5x 4 and JV a one year bridge at just over 2...Markstrom 5 x 5 or 5.5x4 

 

Edit:  Love Pearson but there is little chance we can afford him and TT long term anyways.   TT is a modest upgrade so definitely am happy if we can keep him .  Boeser is happy to be back with Horvat too - he had his best season playing with him as they both have similar styles ...  JB has some big decisions to make ... JV, Pearson, Stetcher and Roussel are the most likely casualties of this cap crunch - none of those guys can’t be replaced eventually internally- next season might be all about the rookie impact and hopefully like the past three years they just keep on doing it. 
 

Edit:  two other things.  One Ferland.  If he’s back on the LTIR or not will make an impact - same if he’s not ... Ferland, Bear and Lind should be able to keep our Left side going without Pearson by committee- same with Roussel.    Second thing is a team can be over the cap - it would require that we ice a shortened bench and put some players in the AHL...there are so many scenarios to help squeek us in. 

Edited July 15, 2020 by IBatch

[Chickenspear]

1 hour ago, Chris12345 said:

Lots of people disagreed with the signing.

 

I don't hate Jimmy but that was bad. Yes, he has to walk into the boss's office and ask for money. That's not easy.

2016 was just a bad year in general for teams trying to improve through free agency. Pretty much every top ufa from that class had a great contract year, but s**t the bed within a year or 2. Not excusing the signing, but at least we weren't the only ones to give out a bad contract.

 

Retaining 50% in a trade might make dumping Loui a little less hurtful to our pick/prospect pool, and still save us more cap than if we bought him out in the last year. But, we'll have to see what his no-trade list looks like. Who knows, maybe there's only a few teams he won't waive to go to. Of course, I'm hoping for the best possible outcome (outright retirement).

[Ghostsof1915]

Sutter is a bit of a redundant piece as well. He might even have value even if it's just a pick or prospect. After this season he has only 1 year and $4.375 million left, and a modified NTC. Just a thought. 

[peaches5]

16 hours ago, EP40. said:

...honestly, why not?

 

 

It’s obvious JB is in cap trouble with all his previous overpayments having now added up incrementally to where we are now. There won’t be nearly as much cap growth the following season due to COVID and as it stands, fitting Toffoli under the salary is looking tough. And there’s absolutely no chance JB will let Toffoli walk after giving up a 2nd+promising prospect in Madden. Just look at what he re-signed Sbisa/Gudbranson for after acquiring them just so we wouldn’t lose them for nothing despite them being terrible players. So it’s safe to imagine he’s going to lock up Toffoli one way or another.

 

Which is why the Boeser trade speculation has been circulating. Say what you want but Jimbo’s been a key factor of Boston regime’s which have traded highly touted youngsters such as Seguin/Dougie Hamilton due to financial and team disputes so I wouldn’t put it past him if the same could be done here (remember the Zucker trade rumours? Generally speaking where there’s smoke there’s fire & this clearly isn’t the first time Brock’s been mentioned). I just really hope it’s not the case since Boeser is by far the Canucks best winger who’s been virtually a point per game his NHL career thus far.

 

...hypothetically speaking, if the purpose of moving out Boeser for a more cost effective player would be to ultimately extend the Canucks window to ice a competitive team & win, why not just do that by moving out Eriksson? The Leafs ran into cap problems but simply moved out Marleau by including a 1st round pick. If the Canucks/JB believe they’re tight on cap which prevents them from competing, it’d make a lot more sense to keep your best player and just pay to get rid of bad contracts. Many teams have done so in the past why not follow suit? It’d be completely idiotic to move out a Boeser while still having an Eriksson around; the problem isn’t Boeser, it’s Eriksson.

 

 

So why not just trade a future 1st+Eriksson and get this dilemma over with? I get we’ve dealt one with the JT Miller trade but if we’re already decided to enter the deep end (contend), we may as well do it properly while keeping our best players around. If not another 1st to get rid of Eriksson, I’m sure 2 2nd round picks and/or a Lind/Goldy/Gadjovich level prospect would suffice. Whatever it is and takes, just get it done!

The issue is Eriksson has a NTC where he has to pick 15 teams he won't accept a trade to. If he just puts Ottawa, New Jersey, Minnesota, Columbus, Detroit etc on that list you aren't trading him. Now with the cap not going down it will cost even more. It may have to be done though. You might have to package Eriksson with Virtanen and Demko or you might even have to package him with Boeser. It will just come down to what is the best return for dumping him, if you can dump him. 

Edited July 15, 2020 by peaches5

[BPA]

Send all players with bad contracts to the minors and hope they either retire or refuse to show up (resulting in termination of contract).

 

One can hope.

Lol.

[mll]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

I don’t see us doing that either.   Unless by some miracle he has a stellar bounce back season - I think there are good odds that he will retire at the end of the next season too.    Just mentioned the only bright side with the cap remaining flat is that this crop of UFAs won’t find it easy cashing in either.   Half the teams have cap issues ... sure a few teams will swing some cap dumps - maybe we will be one of them (I hate that idea for the most part rather we didn’t go there). 
 

[...]

 

I don't see him retiring - his agent assures he wants to continue to play.  He is also bringing back less money than expected this season because of the pandemic.  

 

This cap crunch could bring more parity.  There could be some pretty good players available that wouldn't be in normal times.  I don't think there will be many cap dumps, if any, and see teams more interested in trying to find their own JT Miller.  Revenue is so low that owners are already losing money before the season even starts.  Making the post-season is when they can recoup some of those losses. 

 

Edited July 15, 2020 by mll

[IBatch]

14 minutes ago, mll said:

 

I don't see him retiring - his agent assures he wants to continue to play.  He is also bringing back less money than expected this season because of the pandemic.  

 

This cap crunch could bring more parity.  There could be some pretty good players available that wouldn't be in normal times.  I don't think there will be many cap dumps, if any, and see teams more interested in trying to find their own JT Miller.  Revenue is so low that owners are already losing money before the season even starts.  Making the post-season is when they can recoup some of those losses. 

 

If he’s not in the lineup or playing a 4th line role he might decide to pack it in.  I don’t expect him to retire next season but do believe there are decent odds he will after the next season .   There are very good adds he will end up with the Ladd/Redden treatment early next year.  With Covid he might not even want to risk showing up in Utica.   But yeah you could be right.   As far as the post-season goes they won’t re-coup any losses if fans aren’t allowed to buy tickets.   TV revenue and other revenue streams currently are less then 50% ....there are too many scenarios to know how things will shake out.  One things almost a for sure - at least one more roster player is going the way of Bear next season ... who do you think that will be?  
 

Edit:  If TT is re-signed, JV too...he’s as good as gone.  McEwen will slot in. 

Edited July 15, 2020 by IBatch

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Sutter is a bit of a redundant piece as well. He might even have value even if it's just a pick or prospect. After this season he has only 1 year and $4.375 million left, and a modified NTC. Just a thought. 

He’s still a cap dump even without Covid.    His injury history Mr Glass definitely puts him in the bracket of cap dump.   It would be something like Sutter and Hoglander or Lind and a 3rd for a 5th back.   No thanks.   We are better of just letting him finish his career here.  Doubtful he will ever play another game after this year other then maybe a late signing for 1-2 million to a contender...

[Chris12345]

2 hours ago, Chickenspear said:

2016 was just a bad year in general for teams trying to improve through free agency. Pretty much every top ufa from that class had a great contract year, but s**t the bed within a year or 2. Not excusing the signing, but at least we weren't the only ones to give out a bad contract.

 

Retaining 50% in a trade might make dumping Loui a little less hurtful to our pick/prospect pool, and still save us more cap than if we bought him out in the last year. But, we'll have to see what his no-trade list looks like. Who knows, maybe there's only a few teams he won't waive to go to. Of course, I'm hoping for the best possible outcome (outright retirement).

Ladd, Backes, Loui, Milan...

Edited July 15, 2020 by Chris12345

[captaincowbasher]

18 hours ago, Coconuts said:

Because drafting has been one of the Canuck organization's strengths the last number of years, and our success doesn't mean we don't need to continue filling the prospect pool with quality prospects. We're already losing a first this year or next because of the Miller trade. Petey and Hughes are gonna get paid, Horvat and Boeser on their next contracts too. The importance of having quality youth on ELC's isn't going to diminish any time soon. 

 

Tacking on pieces to move Loui is an option, but given how the cap is going to be stagnant the next number of seasons it'll be an even more expensive move now than it would have been at the deadline. Teams with cap space will likely have a number of capped out teams looking to get some relief, as silly as it seems that could lead to a bidding war for other team's cap space. 

 

 

Hmm...lose toffoli or boeser, legit top 6 players, of which the Canucks have been starved of for the last 20 years, or move a prospect/pick + Louie. It's a no brainer. Don't forget both Podkolzin and Hoglander will be legit top 6 as well. This will be the very best top 6 the Canucks has ever iced, and i say we go to our strengths.