[PGT] St. Louis Blues at Vancouver Canucks | Aug. 17, 2020 | Series tied 2-2

[KoreanHockeyFan]

Soooo...how much longer is Toffoli out for? 

[rekker]

6 hours ago, Law of Goalies said:

I guess you really didn't watch the game....these past two games  (for what its worth) has been JV's best games. I think he is getting warmed up.

Lol. I watched and I saw an out of shape kid who isn't getting it and may have run out of chances. He has been a no show and has embarrassed himself, again. 

[IBatch]

5 hours ago, King Heffy said:

Yep.  We even have people proposing signing Barrie despite the fact his play in his own zone doesn't even meet AHL standards.  The ability to actually play defense is lost on a lot of posters here.

Good point Heffy.   Have seen these (let Tanev walk and go HARD after Barrie) and just shake my head.   QHs is already better then Barrie ever was - and he will get his legacy deal and become an anchor on some poor team.   Could be wrong of course but don’t think he’d be a good fit at all for this team.   He’s a PP specialist and that’s about it.   Our second unit might get marginally better and I suppose he’d could fill in for QHs as well if he’s down but other then that he wouldn’t come close to earning his paycheque here.   I hope JB medium length game is to use the LE/Luongo money to go after another UFA similar to Myers in caliber or better.   Same thing MG did with Hamhuis/Erhoff.   With two Myers in the top four Edler and Tanev could gradually move down the depth chart and keep playing well for us for at least four years... OJ looks to have the chops to replace Tanev plus more offense ... with QHs that would be a very solid d-core to work with.   Hamilton in CAR would be great.   That trade from Boston is looking terrible right now - never understood it at all (scores 40 points and obviously also has a knack for scoring goals - and then trade him for a first rounder - just to hope you can get another Hamilton?) ..

[IBatch]

5 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

well tbh even before that lost to st louis in OT we were getting dominated in game 2 dominated in game 3 dominated in game 4

The play was equal in game 3 - we weren’t “dominated”.   It was probably the closest game of all of them - and that’s why it went to OT.   Game 2 were outplayed a little but their special teams were terrible and ours were... dominate.  Game four momentum shifted - it happens.    The series wouldn’t be 2-2 if they dominated us - Markstrom has been sharp but he hasn’t won us any games on his own by any stretch.  

[FaninMex]

6 minutes ago, IBatch said:

The play was equal in game 3 - we weren’t “dominated”.   It was probably the closest game of all of them - and that’s why it went to OT.   Game 2 were outplayed a little but their special teams were terrible and ours were... dominate.  Game four momentum shifted - it happens.    The series wouldn’t be 2-2 if they dominated us - Markstrom has been sharp but he hasn’t won us any games on his own by any stretch.  

Even in game 2 I felt that the Blues dominated only because the refs were not calling anything. Especially after that Sutter boarding.

Game 4 I felt we were in it for the most part. For example, ROR came out of the corner we had 2 Canucks in the corner, 1 behind the net and 2 out toward the Blues D. ROR was practically able to walk in untouched. We were caught chasing and out of position. 

True the Blues carried the play a bit more but I do not think we were dominated.

Edited August 18, 2020 by FaninMex

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

But that depends on how much he's asking for, right? Could the Canucks afford to keep Markström, Tanev, Toffoli?

Simple answer is yes of course they could.

 

Real answer is the cost is too high and we’d be losing Pearson at least plus a whole bunch of our prospect pool and depth to make the cap dumps needed to so this - plus those cap dumps need to be replaced by quite likely lesser players.   So no.   TT is a rental - let’s hope he’s back so we can get our moneys worth - so far that trade has been both understandable and aggravating.   We need him with Ferland also out and JV so far seeming incapable of getting on the scoresheet.

 

With no TT we have zero cap issues.   We will lose a little depth (Fanta, Levio) and also likely move on from Stetcher and that’s about it. 

[rekker]

10 minutes ago, IBatch said:

The play was equal in game 3 - we weren’t “dominated”.   It was probably the closest game of all of them - and that’s why it went to OT.   Game 2 were outplayed a little but their special teams were terrible and ours were... dominate.  Game four momentum shifted - it happens.    The series wouldn’t be 2-2 if they dominated us - Markstrom has been sharp but he hasn’t won us any games on his own by any stretch.  

True. I think people look at zone time and think we have been dominanted and yes the Blues have been in the Canucks zone a lot. But that's the Blues game and a lot of times the Canucks give them the outside in their own zone. Actual quality scoring chances I would say have been very similar if not tilted in our favour for the series. Domination is not a word I would use at all for the series. Bottom line is our PP let us down big time last night. It cost the game.

[DefCon1]

6 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

But that depends on how much he's asking for, right? Could the Canucks afford to keep Markström, Tanev, Toffoli?

They will make room for Tanev, even if it means trading virtanen. We cant build a team by only thinking about the cap, we have to build it right. If it means a lesser player gets traded to sign a more important player, so be it.

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, rekker said:

True. I think people look at zone time and think we have been dominanted and yes the Blues have been in the Canucks zone a lot. But that's the Blues game and a lot of times the Canucks give them the outside in their own zone. Actual quality scoring chances I would say have been very similar if not tilted in our favour for the series. Domination is not a word I would use at all for the series. Bottom line is our PP let us down big time last night. It cost the game.

Also a ton of their shots come from their D and are easy long distant saves.  That’s their game and they play it well.   We’ve had big zone time where no shots occur but have them running after their own tails trying to get the puck back - particularly when QHs is involved ... at the end of the game last night with the goalie pulled it might have been our best PP of the game ... minutes in their zone with only a few pokes back over the blue line and no shots given on the empty net.  Our game is still a cycling one at its a pretty good one.   Theirs is shoot it on net and clean up the garbage plus ground and pound.   Their defense is a very big one.

 

Getting a healthy hate for the Blues but can’t help but respect them too.  Berube as a coach is something I’d never have guessed in a million years watching him play.   One of the best fighters of his era with a huge cheap shot factor to his game too... often would skate out of position to give a wicked slash or just maim someone for the slightest provocation (which also hurt his teams).  But his teammates and fans loved him.

 

Remember when Crowder entered the league and made mincemeat out of enforcer after enforcer until Berube was up and he pounded him (one of the fastest punchers I’ve seen at that size)  one tough SOB and an entertaining player.   

[IBatch]

12 minutes ago, DefCon1 said:

They will make room for Tanev, even if it means trading virtanen. We cant build a team by only thinking about the cap, we have to build it right. If it means a lesser player gets traded to sign a more important player, so be it.

Absolutely.  And signing JV shouldn’t be too hard either.  He won’t cost 3-3.5 - he hasn’t earned that yet.   He has earned a one million raise and I’m pretty sure that’s what he will get on a one year deal (even with arbitration).   Then he has one more year to earn his big pay day.   If he doesn’t so be it - If he does then great! 

 

Leivo, Fatenburg and Stetcher will be gone.   If Ferland is on the LTIR that’s all that needs to happen.  If not then we either find a home for Bear or trade Pearson and bring Bear back. 

[CanucksJay]

10 minutes ago, rekker said:

True. I think people look at zone time and think we have been dominanted and yes the Blues have been in the Canucks zone a lot. But that's the Blues game and a lot of times the Canucks give them the outside in their own zone. Actual quality scoring chances I would say have been very similar if not tilted in our favour for the series. Domination is not a word I would use at all for the series. Bottom line is our PP let us down big time last night. It cost the game.

Thats exactly right. 

Canucks style of play in our own zone is to keep everything outside and lean on Markstrom to make the save. It relies greatly on zone defence position and communication. Same as PK. This results in less pressure on the puck carrier which means more zone time for them but limiting their quality chances. 

There was a communication breakdown on that one ROR goal. 

Right now, the Blues are making their shots count while the Canucks aren't. 

For instance, before that Schenn OT goal, Miller had a great chance to win it all alone in the slot. This series could have been 3-0 heading into yestersay if he buried that. I think Motte also had a breakaway too if Im not mistaken. 

Those goals went in for us against Minni and the first 2 games against the Blues. 

I feel that we are capable of Scoring those again.

 

[knucklehead91]

1 hour ago, canuck2288 said:

How is our genius staff doing?

 

0-2 with a huge momentum shift and after multiple tactical adjustments from the Blues yet same old from us 

 

you are just refuse to critically see it and when it’s called out you get sad be use someone dare to question what the h we are doing 

 

 

Our genius staff went from a team not expected to make the playoffs, to beating a very deep and experienced Minnesota team and going 2-0 to start the St Louis series who are the defending champs. Oh and we were on a 5 game win streak and our PP is one of the best in the playoffs right now. Last night St Louis figured out our PP. We will review it and make adjustments.

[rekker]

8 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Also a ton of their shots come from their D and are easy long distant saves.  That’s their game and they play it well.   We’ve had big zone time where no shots occur but have them running after their own tails trying to get the puck back - particularly when QHs is involved ... at the end of the game last night with the goalie pulled it might have been our best PP of the game ... minutes in their zone with only a few pokes back over the blue line and no shots given on the empty net.  Our game is still a cycling one at its a pretty good one.   Theirs is shoot it on net and clean up the garbage plus ground and pound.   Their defense is a very big one.

 

Getting a healthy hate for the Blues but can’t help but respect them too.  Berube as a coach is something I’d never have guessed in a million years watching him play.   One of the best fighters of his era with a huge cheap shot factor to his game too... often would skate out of position to give a wicked slash or just maim someone for the slightest provocation (which also hurt his teams).  But his teammates and fans loved him.

 

Remember when Crowder entered the league and made mincemeat out of enforcer after enforcer until Berube was up and he pounded him (one of the fastest punchers I’ve seen at that size)  one tough SOB and an entertaining player.   

Oh ya I remember Berube, he was a scary player and could dominate with a stare. I cheered the Blues last spring as they play hard, but not dirty. They do have some players I've learned to hate now though. 

[CanucksJay]

8 hours ago, amplified0ne said:

I think its somewhat understated but that injury to Boeser was nasty.  Also he put on muscle during the pause, his cardio is probably affected by it and his skating ability was already below average to start.  But I think he'll adjust to his body, he's still young.  

He was so good last round. What happened? 

It's a completely different player. From skating to puck skills. All at least a couple levels worse. 

But then again, same could be said about a lot of players including Sutter. He had a great round against Minni and showed offensive flair and nothing this round. 

I think if those 2 can step up their game, we would be the better team. 

 

 

[JM_]

These last two games have been tough lessons for sure. Last night would have been much closer had the PP not collapsed but I like our chances to take 2/3 from these guys. 

 

Green was able to make the right adjustments after Game 1 vs Minni and then we went on a nice run. 

 

I don't know what adjustments Green can really make this time other than swapping Jake and Boeser, that might give Petey and Miller more chances if Jake can park his large butt in front of the net, he should be able to get there at will and stay put. Other than that I don't see what major shifts can happen but it will be interesting to see what Green decides to do next. We need to screen Allen much more than we have been.

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by Robert Long

[Rush17]

 

[Silent Man]

I think fans need to be a little more patient with this team. We have a huge window of opportunity ahead of us, giving the age of the core.

Just think about it- our best D-man is a rockie, our firts line center  in his second year,our captain is 25 years old,  and the team already scares the hell out of defending cup champion.

Give this team a few year to mature. 

[RUPERTKBD]

I'm not going to bother reading the 26 pages so far....I'm fairly sure it's full of "fire Green" and "bench Virtanen" posts....

 

I'm not on the fire Green bandwagon, but I thought last night showed the first incident of the coaching staff failing to recognize and address a systemic problem. I cut them a bit of slack, because up until last night, special teams were a strength of the Canucks. Yesterday, they were a glaring weakness.

 

The PK was dropping back too deep and allowing the Blues access to the Canucks' D Zone far too easily. They needed to stand up at the blue line and have support from the forwards more often than they did. After allowing access to their zone, they again collapsed too close to their net, allowing the bombers on the point to let fly.

 

The PP has gotten too predictable and it showed last night. We all know (and so do the Blues) that it starts with Hughes, but the pattern of QH walking the line, turning back and feeding Miller, who then feeds Brock down low happened on every single PP and it happened multiple times. The Blues' strategy seemed to be have a forward stay high on Hughes so he can't shoot and have the strong side defender challenge Miller, so he can't shoot from the left hash mark.

 

This goes on and on, until the Canucks finally try a cross seam pass that gets intercepted and they have to start again. There were a very few times that they got the puck to Petey for the one-timer, but the weak side D were ready with the block on the few occasions that it happened. I think I'd rather have Boes man the point with Hughes (so the have a R / L combo) and see them take more point shots. Have Bo and Miller crash the net looking for rebounds....

 

Finally, the compete level needs to come up. The special teams were the difference, but the Blues won far more puck battles. That needs to change for game 5.

[CanucksJay]

Also, i dont think it's ever been pointed out but the Blues are showing they'll do anything to win while canucks are still playing like gentlemen and draw the line somewhere between playing hard and avoiding a play that could injure someone. It's in our makeup not to intentionally injure someone. 

I'm talking about whenever there is a race to the boards (like Horvat yesterday) they push to the lower body while canuck players are going in full speed and instigate heavy crashes into the boards. 

Those could end careers but the blues don't care. I've seen them do it this series pretty much every chance they get. 

It's not a penalty per se because it's not a hard shove or boarding (which they also do) but it's enough to get a player to lose their balance and go crashing into the boards. 

Super dangerous and Horvat is definitely feeling it this morning and last night. 

 

These types of plays where you knock out Myers and injure Horvat (playing now at 70%) is what will win them the series. Canucks will continue to get knocked out of playoffs until they do the same. 

It's crappy but the truth. 

 

[RUPERTKBD]

11 minutes ago, rekker said:

Oh ya I remember Berube, he was a scary player and could dominate with a stare. I cheered the Blues last spring as they play hard, but not dirty. They do have some players I've learned to hate now though. 

I too cheered for them last year, but I've hated Perron for a loooong time....ROR could play for me anytime, as could Schenn