Jim Benning is a good GM

[aGENT]

4 hours ago, Yung1 said:

People who still complain about bad contracts in the bottom 6 make laugh a big big laugh

 

Tell me again about how we'd be in the second round without Beagle, Sutter and Roussel

 

Or maybe he knew more about building a hockey team than you did all along

 

 

Don't forget the 'bad' Motte trade ('we should have got a late 3rd instead!') and the even worse, twitter-goes-nuclear, Miller trade....

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by aGENT

[spook007]

14 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Team Tank sure thought so.

 

Meh, EP literally saved his career in my opinion, and then QH and Miller erased most complaints.
 

Was he actually responsible for those player selections? I know he was responsible for why the team was at that draft position. 

 

I like the semi-rugged, character team he placed around the kids. Knew that group could contend if they made the dance. If Podz and Hogz take over as Miller fades, etc, the window could be extended, but as a Canucks fan I’ve learned not to hope for much in the ifs-and-buts game. 
 

I should add that QH probably is something like a 10x8Dman in the making and EP could be a similar deal. Horvat and others could give issues *similar to what Toronto went through with the cap, but luckily they won’t be buying up a top UFA at 10 mil to compliment those two. 

 

1st round picks so probably yes,...

He also made the deal to get Miller... and man did that change the dynamics for the whole group.

And he also made the deal that gave us the opportunity to get to the dance, when he traded for Toffoli....

 

I'd say he has done wonders for this franchise... bearing in mind there were fairly limited assets left, when he took the helm.

 

Either way... when I look ahead, all I see is bright light, and as a fan thats all that matters to me... And as GM of the Vancouver Canucks Benning takes all the plaudits for that... 

Is he the best GM this organisation has ever had? No idea, its way too early to discuss that, but if the stars align... Until then lets just sit back and enjoy the ride... It sure beats losing...

Edited August 23, 2020 by spook007

[JM_]

2 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

As long as the assessment begins by acknowledging the fact the JB and his cap teams never intended to pick at the top of the draft (and thus in consecutive rounds, for years on end)  to restock any prospect cupboards with, then it can be a reasonable assessment. 
 

Judging a manager of the silver linings of unintended results won’t fly in any other performance review. 
 

Imagine telling your boss that you need to spend to the cap with a team of cripples, Delzasters like Gagne being brought in to fix the power play, Miller to keep them from dropping in the standings, just to rebuild the club, top to bottom?

 

Imagine what the response from your boss would be? 
 

Yes, we hear that a losing environment is bad because the Oilers are the only way to view the results of exposing kids to losing seasons. We also hear the value of leadership, sure, but many PTO type roster players could have provided a positive culture during the several losing seasons the Canucks would inevitably endure, despite all of this hyperbole. 
 

JB is the luckiest GM in Canucks history, for sure, but to say he managed this team to intended results is CNN-like, possibly even FOX news, fabrication and a dishonest account or assessment of his curious mismanagement of the NHL roster, which led to the superstars that are currently making those pricy, and at term, UFA contracts look like some wizardry. 
 

It wasn’t until he switched gears and deliberately built around the fruit of those unintended results in EP and QH that I think he deserves recognition above the bar of mediocracy. Of late, yes, he’s built a team that I’ve long wanted to see in Vancouver and I am super happy to have him, now. 
 

 

I'm not sure how you can claim Jim is "lucky"? he dropped positions every lotto. He didn't make the mistake many other GMs did before him and he and his team correctly identified great talent.  

 

Yes the Benning-Linden re-tool/re-jig/on-the-fly thing was a failed attempt, but Jim made the most of his picks, which other GMs didn't do. 

 

[kloubek]

93.46% at time of this writing.

 

Ask the crowd earlier and you probably would have got close to 50/50. Ask mid season next season and it will be down to 75%. 

 

Proud to be a Benning supporter ever since I saw what he was trying to do. He has made some gaffs but he has also built a soon-to-be cup contender. (Hopefully already?)

[IBatch]

7 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Burke because of one draft? He also wheeled and dealed to the point the cupboard was empty of prospects by the time Nonis took over.

 

For Me:

1. Quinn

2. Benning (so far)

3. Gillis 

4. Burke 

5. Nonis

 

Yes there's been a 5 year absence in the playoffs. But Benning has at our current stage, has gotten as far as Burke ever did. And polar opposite of Burke has stocked the cupboard.

Having a look at our Expansion Cousins the Sabres. Who have missed the playoffs for 9 years, despite: Never drafting lower than 20th in that time, One 1st overall. Two 2nd Overall, and 7 picks in the top 10. And on their 4th GM in that same stretch. 

Burke was as about as good at drafting as Quin ever was (without Burke Quin wouldn’t have found out we could draft him so both these guys deserve some credit over Bure) excluding the Sedins.  Which of course he drafted.   Putting Gillis ahead of Burke is crazy.    Who did he draft and what did he do aside from adding a few players to a core that was already built for him?  And under his leadership that team caved way too quickly.  And left with nothing but a pile of clauses and unhappy players.   MG wasn’t easy to work with as far as trades go and really all he was good for was signing players to stupid contracts.  We are still paying for his mistakes now. 

Edited August 23, 2020 by IBatch

[IBatch]

Personally I never thought JB had a chance and felt he was going to be one and done.  I hated it when Keenan came in and felt ugh here we go again a little bit at the time given - hey we’ve already been down this road.  Still I figured why not give him a chance.  He impressed me a little right off the hop by signing Ryan Miller and Vrbata (after going strong for Iginla and losing taking the next best option).  Made sense given the mandate and felt well at least we have a chance. 
 

Then the sucky years and I was on the fence at that point.   Never for a second did I think we had much chance with the next core given we started with less then an expansion team under the old rules, a kid named Horvat and a third line center.  Yippee.  We are totally screwed...and really should have been.  Plus we have to wait 3/4 years before the Sedins retire before we can actually bottom out yeah for us.  By the time it came to re-up him I could see that we were steadily moving up with our prospect pool.  From 29th, to 20th then another big jump to 13th.   Faster then we were sucking.  That’s when stated thinking he’s doing an above average job.     Now I’m starting to think he might be some autistic evil genuis.   Hated the Hughes and OJ pick - one worked out like gangbusters the other not so well but you can’t have one without the other.  EP skinny waif Glass or Valardi?   JT Miller?  Didn’t like any of them at the outset.   Now I’m scared to say anything about anything he does.   He’s most definitely better then me as an armchair GM and glad this poll is public because you’d have to have one huge ego to think you’d have done better.   We have no business doing this well this soon.  Post Sedin what again and what are we currently doing?   Incredible...overarching.   Not where we should be.  #wtf

[JM_]

22 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Personally I never thought JB had a chance and felt he was going to be one and done.  I hated it when Keenan came in and felt ugh here we go again a little bit at the time given - hey we’ve already been down this road.  Still I figured why not give him a chance.  He impressed me a little right off the hop by signing Ryan Miller and Vrbata (after going strong for Iginla and losing taking the next best option).  Made sense given the mandate and felt well at least we have a chance. 
 

Then the sucky years and I was on the fence at that point.   Never for a second did I think we had much chance with the next core given we started with less then an expansion team under the old rules, a kid named Horvat and a third line center.  Yippee.  We are totally screwed...and really should have been.  Plus we have to wait 3/4 years before the Sedins retire before we can actually bottom out yeah for us.  By the time it came to re-up him I could see that we were steadily moving up with our prospect pool.  From 29th, to 20th then another big jump to 13th.   Faster then we were sucking.  That’s when stated thinking he’s doing an above average job.     Now I’m starting to think he might be some autistic evil genuis.   Hated the Hughes and OJ pick - one worked out like gangbusters the other not so well but you can’t have one without the other.  EP skinny waif Glass or Valardi?   JT Miller?  Didn’t like any of them at the outset.   Now I’m scared to say anything about anything he does.   He’s most definitely better then me as an armchair GM and glad this poll is public because you’d have to have one huge ego to think you’d have done better.   We have no business doing this well this soon.  Post Sedin what again and what are we currently doing?   Incredible...overarching.   Not where we should be.  #wtf

good on you for being honest. "autistic evil genius"  

 

I still have a lot of hope for Juolevi. It was only 13 minutes vs Winnipeg and Minni but the kid looked good. I think it was Canucks Army that literally broke down every shift and detailed the kids sound decision making. I think he's a lock for the top 8 next year. 

 

 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, spook007 said:

1st round picks so probably yes,...

He also made the deal to get Miller... and man did that change the dynamics for the whole group.

And he also made the deal that gave us the opportunity to get to the dance, when he traded for Toffoli....

 

I'd say he has done wonders for this franchise... bearing in mind there were fairly limited assets left, when he took the helm.

 

Either way... when I look ahead, all I see is bright light, and as a fan thats all that matters to me... And as GM of the Vancouver Canucks Benning takes all the plaudits for that... 

Is he the best GM this organisation has ever had? No idea, its way too early to discuss that, but if the stars align... Until then lets just sit back and enjoy the ride... It sure beats losing...

Yeah Spook - it’s early days yet.  Three Hat Pat set the standard decades ago now and nobody has matched it since.   Pretty much feel that we either have to become perrenial contenders or win a cup before I’d say JB supplants him.  Love Pat Quin more then any coach or GM since.   AV and Burke and even Crow had their moments but nothing like Quin...anyone who remembers in 94 when the NYRs played us in the regular season and we had a titanic game against the runaway league leader at the time - and both Quin and Keenan screaming at each other - Odjick trying to get over the glass and spear Rangers on the bench and the announcers saying “ Mike better be careful or Quin might go over there and throw him into the rafters” and “wow wouldn’t it be great if these two team met each other in the playoffs “ was foreshadowing at its very best ... burned into my physce and wish I could watch that game again somehow.  
 

The announcers were saying wouldn’t it be great if we met in the final before it even happened and our team wasn’t running on all cylinders since Nedved left.   Once we got his return the team gained traction quickly ... and Quin running all three jobs for as long as he did - and back and forth - puts him firmly in the #1 spot.    He’s the best.   One heck of a career that man - JB might  one day supplant him but it would have to come with more then 94 to make it work.  A cup would help. 

[189lb enforcers?]

1 hour ago, Robert Long said:

I'm not sure how you can claim Jim is "lucky"? he dropped positions every lotto. He didn't make the mistake many other GMs did before him and he and his team correctly identified great talent.  

 

Yes the Benning-Linden re-tool/re-jig/on-the-fly thing was a failed attempt, but Jim made the most of his picks, which other GMs didn't do. 

 

That is one aspect of his luck, sure. 
 

Whatever, at least you agree that his unintended consequences are the silver linings of legends in this forum.
 

I’d call that luck, as far as vision, execution and actual results go. Best GM ever, that’s how he was in the position to draft EP? Nahhh. 
 

We are lucky to have EP and QH, players plucked from the top of the draft. 
 

We mainly agree on his past performance, and probably agree on the past year or so. 
 

Best GM ever though? 
Let’s see. 
I have him ahead of Gillis though. 

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

That is one aspect of his luck, sure. 
 

Whatever, at least you agree that his unintended consequences are the silver linings of legends in this forum.
 

I’d call that luck, as far as vision, execution and actual results go. Best GM ever, that’s how he was in the position to draft EP? Nahhh. 
 

We are lucky to have EP and QH, players plucked from the top of the draft. 
 

We mainly agree on his past performance, and probably agree on the past year or so. 
 

Best GM ever though? 
Let’s see. 
I have him ahead of Gillis though. 

for sure it was an unintended position, they thought they had the veteran core to at least make the playoffs with the Sedins and Edler. Maybe with different tweeners they could have been mediocre vs just bad  who knows, it was a flawed plan and he made the best of it. 

 

But luck? he reached down a few spots for EP, thats not luck. He didn't mess up like Bergevin did and pass on Hughes. 

 

I don't really care about labels like 'best ever' but Jim's made some damn good moves in the draft (however you think he got there) and that Miller trade is one of the best ever in team history. 

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by Robert Long

[189lb enforcers?]

^ Like he said. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

8 hours ago, Jester13 said:

I get a little tired of everyone always just pointing to drafting and trades. The GMs job is to manage the entire team, which includes hiring and firing, such as bringing in Green, getting rid of Cloutier and bringing in Clark, creating a culture of character and resiliency and drafting/trading for high-skilled players who exemplify such traits, and so much more. 

 

Benning is the best GM we've ever had. Hands down. We're the 3rd youngest team in the league and we just knocked off the champs. We have three Calder players in a row. This is the closest group of guys that you'll probably ever see.

 

What he's done to rebuild this team as soon as he recieved the green light from FA is remarkable. He's had a plan for years and those who've seen it from the beginning have been enjoying the ride since, and here we are.

 

Can we please get off this bash Benning train and give this guy his due, finally? Life is so much more enjoyable when you don't view the world through a negative lens. (And here come the rose-coloured glasses comments...)

 

Edit: Can you add a choice of "great GM" ?

Poetry!

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, Robert Long said:

good on you for being honest. "autistic evil genius"  

 

I still have a lot of hope for Juolevi. It was only 13 minutes vs Winnipeg and Minni but the kid looked good. I think it was Canucks Army that literally broke down every shift and detailed the kids sound decision making. I think he's a lock for the top 8 next year. 

 

 

OJ coming in as even a solid player within the next year or two would be massive for this club.   If he can play a smart defensive game like Tanev we’d be looking pretty solid on D...

[fanfor42]

At this point anyone bashing Benning, giving him a failing grade is not paying attention. All things are relative to their point in time. But right now he is a great GM.

[alt kilgore]

18 hours ago, fanfor42 said:

At this point anyone bashing Benning, giving him a failing grade is not paying attention. All things are relative to their point in time. But right now he is a great GM.

ha So true.   Its easy bash a GM when the team is faltering, and its easy to overlook his past mistakes  (which may come back to bite in future) when things are going well.  Right now is not the time to be going over his decisions with a fine tooth comb. Like how many of those great draft picks were Brackett and his staff winning the argument for them?  How many, were the ones JB put his foot down on, like Jake and Juolevi as has been reported? 

But now is the time to just enjoy the run, however long it lasts. We are all Canucks. JB can do no more than we can right now. Watch them play and cheer them on. No one should be whining about his management right now. 

Wait a few weeks at least.

[Nucker 67]

Benning will have his work cut out for him after these playoffs. Who does he re-sign and who does he let go? I hope he keeps the players in blue. The others I'd be okay letting go, or signing & trading.

 

UFAs - with last salaries (and new salaries)

Toffoli - $4,600,000  ($5,500,000)

Tanev - $4,450,000  ($5,500,000)

Leivo - $1,500,000

Domingue - $1,150,000  ($1,500,000)

Fantenberg - $850,000  ($1,250,000)

Graovac - $700,000

 

RFAs - with last salaries (and new salaries)

Stecher - $2,325,000

Virtanen - $1,250,000

Motte - $975,000  ($2,000,000)

Gaudette - $916,666  ($1,250,000)

MacEwen - $847,500  ($1,100,000)

Chatfield - $765,000  ($850,000)

Bailey - $700,000  ($800,000)

Brisebois - $697,500

Sautner - $675,000

[messier's_elbow]

People here like Benning. HF on the other hand hate his guts. They are all making excuses like saying Judd is the reason we are winning. 

[messier's_elbow]

On 8/22/2020 at 10:54 PM, The Game said:

This has got to stop. Benning has overseen the Canucks during a six year rebuild where we’ve been the worst team in the league. “His drafting is amazing”: well yeah, when you routinely get top 5 picks it usually turns out ok. Plus he’s missed on two top 10 picks (Virtanen and Joulievi). 
 

We just managed to squeeze into the playoffs, and our cap is a total mess. He’s handed out too large too expensive contracts to bottom line players, and this will severely hinder our future (what happens when both Elias and Quinn need ~$10 million contracts in a year?

 

Sure, he hasn’t been all bad but to even suggest that he’s the best GM in our franchise’s history is laughable. (I remember during the fall of Torts’ season where someone hade a thread saying “Torts is the best coach in Canucks history” just ‘cause we’d had a hot start. This is in the same vein.) 

He started off mediocre I’ll give you that. Since his first season or two he’s been one of the best GMs in the league. My only real concern is his cap management. His drafting is sublime. I think Aqua had some input on Virtanen and that draft in the top 10 wasn’t that good. He’s still a solid player albeit immature and he’s getting better slowly. Juolevi the jury is still out. Could still be a valuable top 4 D in two years. Quinn might be the best GM we have had but think Benning is hot on his trail. I was a fan of Gillis aside from his arrogance, and his mediocre at Best drafting (besides Bo) and Burke who put together a good team, but could never solve the goaltending equation like the others did. Benning definitely has potential to be the best Canuck GM ever and if they win a cup with him at the helm he will even get a statue at Rogers. 

[messier's_elbow]

26 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Benning will have his work cut out for him after these playoffs. Who does he re-sign and who does he let go? I hope he keeps the players in blue. The others I'd be okay letting go, or signing & trading.

 

UFAs - with last salaries (and new salaries)

Toffoli - $4,600,000  ($5,500,000)

Tanev - $4,450,000  ($5,500,000)

Leivo - $1,500,000

Domingue - $1,150,000  ($1,500,000)

Fantenberg - $850,000  ($1,250,000)

Graovac - $700,000

 

RFAs - with last salaries (and new salaries)

Stecher - $2,325,000

Virtanen - $1,250,000

Motte - $975,000  ($2,000,000)

Gaudette - $916,666  ($1,250,000)

MacEwen - $847,500  ($1,100,000)

Chatfield - $765,000  ($850,000)

Bailey - $700,000  ($800,000)

Brisebois - $697,500

Sautner - $675,000

I think Leivo is gone for sure. Stetcher probably gonzo as well. I don’t think we can afford Toffoli unless he signs a cheap one year deal which isn’t happening. 

Edited August 27, 2020 by messier's_elbow

[messier's_elbow]

On 8/23/2020 at 3:53 PM, 189lb enforcers? said:

That is one aspect of his luck, sure. 
 

Whatever, at least you agree that his unintended consequences are the silver linings of legends in this forum.
 

I’d call that luck, as far as vision, execution and actual results go. Best GM ever, that’s how he was in the position to draft EP? Nahhh. 
 

We are lucky to have EP and QH, players plucked from the top of the draft. 
 

We mainly agree on his past performance, and probably agree on the past year or so. 
 

Best GM ever though? 
Let’s see. 
I have him ahead of Gillis though. 

If the rumour is true he got lucky when we were going to trade Bo, first round pick, ect for Subban. He dodged a bullet there.