[Discussion] Arizona/OEL

[D-Money]

13 hours ago, Maniwaki Canuck said:

But if this deal does happen, we're officially in win-now mode.  To me, that means re-signing Marky and a high chance that Demko gets dealt.  Whether or not this deal happens and on what terms will tell us a lot about our window. 

Although I agree about the window, it really depends on what Ian Clark thinks. Based on Marky’s age and injury history (has there been a report on what injury kept him out for the last few?), there may be a belief that Demko may provide equivalent goaltending in the not-so-distant future.

 

For a good example of how quickly Markstrom may regress, look at the career arc of recently-traded Devan Dubnyk. He’s the exact same size as Markstrom, also a former 1st round pick, who went from cast-off to NHL all-star starter in his late 20’s. He played the all-star game just last year. But this season, he suddenly was one of the worst goalies in the league.

 

Marky is 3.7 years younger, so if his career goes similarly the first 2-3 years of his next contract should be worth it. But if he’s demanding 5, or even 6 years, the last few years of that could be very burdensome. Maybe he lasts longer...but it could go the other way too.

[J-P]

1 hour ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

I hope Benning has his “walk away” conditions clear in his mind and set in stone, because I feel like the longer this takes, the worse the deal we’ll end up with (if an OEL-Canucks deal actually happens).

I personally believe the opposite. If OEL to the bruins was a thing it would have already happened, but since it hasn't I believe the offer on the table is not one Arizona is pleased with and that if a deal does happen it will be one we will be very happy with (except the long-term cap implications maybe). I do agree however that for each passing day the likelyhood of a deal happening becomes smaller, would guess the draft is the deadline and after that Jim moves on to plan b.

[Odjick the Warrior]

27 minutes ago, J-P said:

I personally believe the opposite. If OEL to the bruins was a thing it would have already happened, but since it hasn't I believe the offer on the table is not one Arizona is pleased with and that if a deal does happen it will be one we will be very happy with (except the long-term cap implications maybe). I do agree however that for each passing day the likelyhood of a deal happening becomes smaller, would guess the draft is the deadline and after that Jim moves on to plan b.

I think Boston is using Arizona and OEL to drive down Krug’s price if he wants to stay in Boston because why would they let Krug go but then give up assets to get a player more expensive then Boston is willing to pay? 

[D-Money]

As for OEL and Boston/Vancouver, the key to the deal is Eriksson. Ironic that he came from Boston prior to signing. Considering that Canucks would have to spend a considerable asset to remove his cap hit, there’s extra incentive for Vancouver to pursue this. While on Arizona’s and, it is more acceptable for them to take on a player who is owed so little money as opposed to cap hit - he could help them bring their payroll below the cap floor.

Bruins don’t have a player they’d like to shed with a big AAV, but a low salary. The 2 players I think they’d want to move are Krejci and Rask, but both are owed almost full salary for the year. That’s likely not as palatable for Arizona. Not to mention they each have only 1 year left on the deals, so shedding them is not too big of a deal to Boston. They are also still effective players, so can’t see the Bruins parting with assets to move them.

 

A secondary obstacle to Boston is Krug. Now, I’m not going to suggest he’s as good of a player  as OEL (because he’s not), but he’s still a very good player at the same position. If they let him walk over money, after years of him playing very well for them, helping them get to the SCF twice, only to trade assets for a guy who is the same position and age, who makes $1.5M more than what they offered Krug... The optics on that don’t look ideal.

[UKNuck96]

5 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

Pietrangelo would only cost money right? Where for OEL we'd be giving away assets. A first and a defensive prospect? No to the first. Defensive prospect? I guess they're looking at Juolevi, no? 

 

 

 

On 10/3/2020 at 10:47 AM, PetterssonOrPeterson said:

Well, this is all assuming GMJB has a plan and can make other deals to clear up space which he will have to do anyway if he goes for OEL.

8.25 million X 7yrs isn’t cheap.

Also, how much more exactly would Pietrangelo cost?

Let’s say a 10 million dollar contract for 5 years? I would do it. He’s right handed and I’d say a superior defenceman. We’re also saving money because it’s a shorter term. 
 

Arizona wants a first rounder + a young defensive prospect for that OEL contract too.

We’d be losing more by trying to acquire OEL.

 

Thing is we wouldn't be losing more with OEL - Pietrangelo could be signed as a free agent yes - but then the team is really in a cap crunch as it wont be cap compliant and will have to shed salary. At this point teams will know that, so we would either be over a barrel, or have to shed the salary prior to signing. If we want to move LE to make space its going to cost a fair bit, same with any other cap dumps we have to do.

 

With OEL we should be able to remove some of the cap issues (ie LE) and also get a decent player back at likely a lower cost that it would be to just dump the salary.

 

Yes Piet is a better player but he is also older and is wanting a high salary, bonus laden back loaded contract. Its probably not one we can afford.

 

Another advantage of OEL is that he is in essence an Edler replacement, so it means when Edler comes up for renewal its either retirement or a short term low salary contract with him on a bottom pairing, which improve depth. The point of depth is to push better players down the line up and not to swap them out 

[MoneypuckOverlord]

19 minutes ago, UKNuck96 said:

Pietrangelo could be signed as a free agent yes

you think we are the only team that thinks this?  What makes you think he is interested in coming to the West coast?

[UKNuck96]

10 minutes ago, MoneypuckOverlord said:

you think we are the only team that thinks this?  What makes you think he is interested in coming to the West coast?

way to miss the entire point of my post

Edited October 6, 2020 by UKNuck96

[mll]

 

[mll]

6 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

I'm thinking, it's October 6 already. Free Agency is basically right after the draft, no? Marky's not coming back. 

 

Free agency opens on Friday the 9th.

 

Qualifying offers are for Wednesday the 7th.

 

Arbitration filing is for the 10th.

[Junkyard Dog]

18 minutes ago, mll said:

 

Sounds like this is gonna go down to the wire and we might not see where this unfolds till tomorrow. I can’t imagine the Canucks camp will continue talks after that. FA looms. 

[CR7]

As much as I would be on board to trade for OEL (if the price was right) I think waiting for the RFA qualifying period to end and see who gets left unqualified would be better. Lots of teams at the cap with unsigned RFA's, good unsigned RFA's

Edited October 6, 2020 by CR7

[Provost]

6 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

Pietrangelo would only cost money right? Where for OEL we'd be giving away assets. A first and a defensive prospect? No to the first. Defensive prospect? I guess they're looking at Juolevi, no? 

 

 

This is not true.  Pietrangelo would cost us whatever getting rid of Eriksson and a couple of other bad contracts would cost us... because we couldn’t fit in his contract otherwise. Certainly more assets than getting OEL in a trade.

 

The entire point of the OEL deal would be that It also sends equivalent cap back in terms of bad contracts.  It isn’t an either/or scenario.

[Provost]

I am starting to get some pucker factor that we are going to end up with nothing happening or that we will have spent too long waiting on Markstrom and the OEL deal.

 

I don’t want to hear the regular party line “We tried to do things but the price wasn’t right and we couldn’t make anything happen”.  It is Benning’s job to make things happen.

 

We are down to hours now before a huge deadline of the draft, let’s hope we see a really active day today.  If we don’t, then we are stuck deciding on whether to qualify Virtanen and Stecher, if we qualify them then we likely can’t sign any of our UFAs since that represents about $6 million in cap liability from arbitration awards.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Provost

[rekker]

16 minutes ago, Provost said:

This is not true.  Pietrangelo would cost us whatever getting rid of Eriksson and a couple of other bad contracts would cost us... because we couldn’t fit in his contract otherwise. Certainly more assets than getting OEL in a trade.

 

The entire point of the OEL deal would be that It also sends equivalent cap back in terms of bad contracts.  It isn’t an either/or scenario.

I wish folks would just leave Petriangelo out of the equation. He has three favorites. His home town team, his adopted home town team, Vegas. We would have to considerably out bid to land him. Plus St Louis has the ability to go 8 years. It just isn't going to happen. Let it go, it isn't an option.

[TheRussianRocket1994]

I don't understand Arizona asking OEL to expand his list at this point. 1) he prob won't. 2) even if he did, it's prob pointless as Van & Bos will prob be dropping out to move on to other things. So really, they'll prob be no futher ahead. 

[JM_]

10 hours ago, oldnews said:

I don't think the team is in a position to eat cap in exchange for futures - and particularly not 5 million for 4 years.  I think they're at a diffent 'stage'.

 

I wouldn't go the buyout route either - certainly would not buyout Sutter.

 

I'd probably start by moving a few of the more moveable veteran wingers - perhaps package Pearson and Roussel to Montreal for 2nd and 3rd round picks.

Get out ahead of it - relieve some cap tightness - remove some leverage of teams looking to exploit it - sign the key UFAS like Markstrom and Tanev....take the loss of Pearson - get a pick in the draft and possibly use the other pick to move Baertschi to Detroit....see who might be interested in Benn (perhaps even Arizona if they're moving out bigger D contracts...

I realize Pearson is a 21g scorer - good fit for Horvat - good two way player, some heaviness and hard to play against elements and not easy to replace, but I think the team is likely to have to take a loss this offseason, so if I could get a slightly lower than market (imo) value for Pearson, I might start there just to get the rest of the bottleneck moving.  If they make an OEL type deal, it still requires some cap clearing.  Also if they did then move the subsequent Baer/Benn deals, they'd be in a better position with their expiring RFAs and any spots left to fill...

 

yeah Wednesday could be an interesting day for moving out some salary for sure. I don't worry about losing good partners for Bo, he's proven he can perform well with just about anyone., which is an aspect of his game that goes a bit under appreciated imo. 

 

Pearson might even be one of the players Jim wants to end to AZ to move salary as well.

 

Its been reviewed ad nauseam already but the team is finally in a position where Jim doesn't  have to do much for the team to stay the course or improve a little. If a large thing like OEL happens great, if not thats fine too. 

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, IRR said:

I don't understand Arizona asking OEL to expand his list at this point. 1) he prob won't. 2) even if he did, it's prob pointless as Van & Bos will prob be dropping out to move on to other things. So really, they'll prob be no futher ahead. 

the return isn't "O'Reilly" enough. Costs them nothing to ask. If the talking heads are to be believed he's standing firm on us or Boston. If the returns are relatively equivalent OEL is headed to Boston since AZ won't want to see OEL on a regular basis. If we've offered more then he'll come to us. 

 

It stinks of a bit of desperation and means OEL has almost certainly played his last game there. 

[Dazzle]

18 minutes ago, Provost said:

I am starting to get some pucker factor that we are going to end up with nothing happening or that we will have spent too long waiting on Markstrom and the OEL deal.

 

I don’t want to hear the regular party line “We tried to do things but the price wasn’t right and we couldn’t make anything happen”.  It is Benning’s job to make things happen.

 

We are down to hours now before a huge deadline of the draft, let’s hope we see a really active day today.  If we don’t, then we are stuck deciding on whether to qualify Virtanen and Stecher, if we qualify them then we likely can’t sign any of our UFAs since that represents about $6 million in cap liability from arbitration awards.

Ending up with nothing is not a bad thing. I love OEL's game from the backend, and the Canucks would be even scarier than they are now. However, the term is really really bad. It's so bad that it could be a major factor for why we can't afford to pay Pettersson and Hughes down the road. You say it's Benning's job to do things; it's also Benning's job not to do anything if it's too risky. OEL's contract runs until he's 36.

 

Benning has been kicking the tires on OEL a lot, according to the media. This wouldn't have been said if he was just sitting around as you're implying.

[86Viking]

JB has all day, not like he has a 1st round pick to focus on making...either way, deadline with this whole OEL potential deal should be tonight. Move on and sign some cheaper short term deals in FA. Can't sell the farm for OEL, we need to move out salary and Arizona likely doesn't want to take much back, hence why they should just deal with Boston

[EP40.]

For a certain user that was downplaying the OEL connection and thinking JB can’t make a vision of that of the Dallas blueline, 

 

JB literally mentioned both the Stars & Lightning defense to something he’d like to incorporate. Both teams have not 1 but 2 clear cut guys capable of moving the puck up the ice. He said we have Hughes but would like to add another guy via trade if it can get done.

 

Literally everything’s aligned up until this point...would be a shocker if a deal doesn’t get done at this rate.