[Speculation] Canucks looking to move Jake Virtanen

[Rush17]

Virtanen +  Stecher for Fabbro?

[mll]

52 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

Virtanen +  Stecher for Fabbro?

Poile calls Fabbro a core player and talks of how their team is built on a strong top-4.  No reason to think he wants to break it up.  Stecher has a case to get 3.5M per Drance.   Fabbro is on ELC.  Also Nashville is not going to pay a 3rd pairing D much more than 1M.   Both Virtanen and Stecher have arbitration rights which probably lowers their trade value in a flat cap.  

 

Also Poile says they need to go back to playing Predator hockey - he talks of hard work and consistency.  Doubt he sees Virtanen fitting that description.  

[KKnight]

42 minutes ago, mll said:

Poile calls Fabbro a core player and talks of how their team is built on a strong top-4.  No reason to think he wants to break it up.  Stecher has a case to get 3.5M per Drance.   Fabbro is on ELC.  Also Nashville is not going to pay a 3rd pairing D much more than 1M.   Both Virtanen and Stecher have arbitration rights which probably lowers their trade value in a flat cap.  

 

Also Poile says they need to go back to playing Predator hockey - he talks of hard work and consistency.  Doubt he sees Virtanen fitting that description.  

As much as I love Stech. Great teammate, great person and the ultimate competitor. I much sooner trade him at that point, based on a value standpoint, you can get a lot more for 3.5 per. I would be looking to trade for Colin Miller at that point. 

[mll]

8 minutes ago, KKnight said:

As much as I love Stech. Great teammate, great person and the ultimate competitor. I much sooner trade him at that point, based on a value standpoint, you can get a lot more for 3.5 per. I would be looking to trade for Colin Miller at that point. 

I don't think the Canucks will qualify him and risk arbitration.  Teams can't walk away if the award is below a certain limit and he'll likely end up below - it was around 4.4M last year.

 

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, mll said:

Poile calls Fabbro a core player and talks of how their team is built on a strong top-4.  No reason to think he wants to break it up.  Stecher has a case to get 3.5M per Drance.   Fabbro is on ELC.  Also Nashville is not going to pay a 3rd pairing D much more than 1M.   Both Virtanen and Stecher have arbitration rights which probably lowers their trade value in a flat cap.  

 

Also Poile says they need to go back to playing Predator hockey - he talks of hard work and consistency.  Doubt he sees Virtanen fitting that description.  

Not refuting your points on Nashville (though the ED says hi to their top 4 D) or the spit balling of us trading with them mll but you keep bringing up Drance's hot takes on Virtanen and Stecher's potential arb awards.

 

Has he ever been a GM? Arbitrator? Agent? Has he ever actually been correct about... anything? Sounds to me like his usual hack media job of painting hyperbolic, worst case scenarios as reality, to bait clicks.

 

Now that's not to say that we shouldn't be wary of what these two players might see in arbitration, I agree, there's some concern (though a potential few hundred extra k each, for one year, while certainly a pain in the arse, is hardly unmanageable). But if I have to read another 'as per Drance' post... 

[70seven]

There isn’t a trade market for Virtanen.  Canucks will walk away.  Virt will be UFA. 
 

Stecher probably could generate some interest.  But still I can’t see us obtaining more than a 3rd. 

[mll]

2 hours ago, aGENT said:

Not refuting your points on Nashville (though the ED says hi to their top 4 D) or the spit balling of us trading with them mll but you keep bringing up Drance's hot takes on Virtanen and Stecher's potential arb awards.

 

Has he ever been a GM? Arbitrator? Agent? Has he ever actually been correct about... anything? Sounds to me like his usual hack media job of painting hyperbolic, worst case scenarios as reality, to bait clicks.

 

Now that's not to say that we shouldn't be wary of what these two players might see in arbitration, I agree, there's some concern (though a potential few hundred extra k each, for one year, while certainly a pain in the arse, is hardly unmanageable). But if I have to read another 'as per Drance' post... 

 

They would likely protect 4Ds + 4Fs.  Poile list his core as their 4 Ds + the JOFA line + the 2 goalies.  Rinne is UFA so Saros. Probably Duchene for that 4th spot at F but could be someone else - he doesn't have an NMC for expansion per CapFriendly.  

 

MacIntyre also pegs Virtanen at around 3M without mentioning arbitration - there's an audio somewhere.

 

In arbitration Baertschi at 3.37M is probably a comparable he would use.   Fabbri just go 2.95M x 2 from Detroit with lesser numbers than Virtanen.  So 3M or so sounds plausible.  They can't use the league or the team's financial condition as argument per the CBA - ie they can't talk of salary cap, drop in revenue or internal budget.  

 

Didn't look into Stecher.  I think they can use stats like +/- in arbitration.  So could well be possible.  Vogl talks of 4M if not more for Montour in arbitration - he only had 18pts this season (less games than Stecher though).

 

As Poile puts it the player side is going to argue that he's Gretzky while the team will argue that he can barely skate.  The NHL/NHLPA appoint neutral arbitrators from the National Association of Arbitrators.  With the adjustment in dates it could be arbitrators who have never ruled on a hockey case before.  It's also not possible to sign a contract once they've started the hearings - they have to finish the process and the ruling will apply.  It's a change from past years where they could see how the hearing went and make a deal before the ruling.  There is a risk of having an award that is completely disproportionate given the flat cap while the comparable contracts were signed with the cap expected to rise.

 

Edited September 14, 2020 by mll

[DeNiro]

You’re not getting much in a trade and you’re not replacing 20 goals for less than 3 mil.

 

Lets just hope he takes a discount and they can sign him to a multi year deal.

[mll]

15 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

You’re not getting much in a trade and you’re not replacing 20 goals for less than 3 mil.

 

Lets just hope he takes a discount and they can sign him to a multi year deal.

MacIntyre doesn't seem to think that Virtanen (or Stecher) will be back.  He says it comes down to role and value.  For what he offers to the team he doesn't think they'll be willing to pay him the 3M that he is worth.

[Junkyard Dog]

16 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

You’re not getting much in a trade and you’re not replacing 20 goals for less than 3 mil.

 

Lets just hope he takes a discount and they can sign him to a multi year deal.

 

Just now, mll said:

MacIntyre doesn't seem to think that Virtanen (or Stecher) will be back.  He says it comes down to role and value.  For what he offers to the team he doesn't think they'll be willing to pay him the 3M that he is worth.

There's a darkhorse too that could be another reason why we're able to let go of Virtanen.

 

Leivo

 

He could be had relatively cheap because of his injury and if he is able to regain form then he's potting around 15-20 goals(7 goals, 12 assists, 19 points, 36 games). He's shown to be more capable of playing up and down the lineup more so than Virtanen too.

 

Benning seemed like there's a good possibility that he's back and kind of mistakenly claimed that he would be but clarified that he was an viable option

[Petey40]

2 hours ago, 70seven said:

There isn’t a trade market for Virtanen.  Canucks will walk away.  Virt will be UFA. 
 

Stecher probably could generate some interest.  But still I can’t see us obtaining more than a 3rd. 

I disagree, I think most teams would be willing to make a deal for a big heavy player that was gonna be a 20 goal scorer last year. 

[70seven]

18 minutes ago, Petey40 said:

I disagree, I think most teams would be willing to make a deal for a big heavy player that was gonna be a 20 goal scorer last year. 

Not with his arb rights. The fact that he was on pace for 20 will price him out of Van.  Interested teams may as well wait until he’s a UFA instead of giving up assets...  plus it’s doubtful that any team will want him at his arb # with the flat cap. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by 70seven

[Petey40]

1 minute ago, 70seven said:

Not with his arb rights. The fact that he was on pace for 20 will price him out of Van.  Interested teams may as well wait until he’s a UFA instead of giving up assets. 

Fair point, do you know what his cap hit would be if he chose to go through arbitration?

[70seven]

3 minutes ago, Petey40 said:

Fair point, do you know what his cap hit would be if he chose to go through arbitration?

What’s the going rate for 20 goal scorers at his age?...  my guess is 3.2-4.5

 

Just money better spent elsewhere for most

Edited September 15, 2020 by 70seven

[Petey40]

12 minutes ago, 70seven said:

What’s the going rate for 20 goal scorers at his age?...  my guess is 3.2-4.5

 

Just money better spent elsewhere for most

Certain teams like Detroit or Ottawa might be willing to give a player like him a shot since they have so much cap space, I don’t think there is no trade market for him it could just be a lot more slim than a lot of us think 

[DeNiro]

1 hour ago, mll said:

MacIntyre doesn't seem to think that Virtanen (or Stecher) will be back.  He says it comes down to role and value.  For what he offers to the team he doesn't think they'll be willing to pay him the 3M that he is worth.

Hence the discount.

 

If he does really want to play for his hometown team he can take a deal at 2-2.5 mil.

 

Hes not going to get a better opportunity elsewhere and a coach that has been very patient with him.

[70seven]

2 hours ago, Petey40 said:

Certain teams like Detroit or Ottawa might be willing to give a player like him a shot since they have so much cap space, I don’t think there is no trade market for him it could just be a lot more slim than a lot of us think 

For sure....  I just don’t think anyone will sacrifice anything worthwhile knowing he’s likely going to be on the FA market. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by 70seven

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Hence the discount.

 

If he does really want to play for his hometown team he can take a deal at 2-2.5 mil.

 

Hes not going to get a better opportunity elsewhere and a coach that has been very patient with him.

And this is I'm guessing what happens. Benning uses the media to negotiate a 'we're disappointed'/covid/you want to stay in your home town with your 'crew'... discounted deal. Then, barring a miraculous maturation by Virtanen, a couple months in to the season, as Podkolzin arrives from the K, he's moved. Under contract.

[LegionOfDoom]

Would love to use Jake as part of a package to get Gallagher from Montreal, feel this would solidify our top 6 if we resign toffoli and find a way to shed cap elsewhere but for this up coming season his 3.75 million would be a nice addition to our top 6 

[YearoftheNuck]

18 minutes ago, LegionOfDoom said:

Would love to use Jake as part of a package to get Gallagher from Montreal, feel this would solidify our top 6 if we resign toffoli and find a way to shed cap elsewhere but for this up coming season his 3.75 million would be a nice addition to our top 6 

I think it would take a loaded package to pry Gally from the Habs. He’s their heart and soul. However his contract is up for renewal at the end of next season 

 

Funny story; back when Gallagher was playing his final season for the Giants, myself and my girlfriend at the time (now my wife) waited outside the dressing room to have him autograph her Gallagher jersey. He was such a good guy, always grinning. Anyway, I mentioned to him that when the day arrives when he becomes a free agent that I hope he comes home.
 

Who knows, it just might happen.