Petey40 Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Mr.DirtyDangles said: So emulating a style is cultural appropriation go it. I see you painting an Easter egg with out my consent I'm coming to your house...... Lol except there is a big difference. One of the cultures was attacked and almost snuffed out of existence from colonialism and the other one came from ancient Christians, Europeans, and colonialism. Edited December 17, 2020 by Petey40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucksfollower1983 Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 10 hours ago, vancouverbucsfan said: As an alternate third jersey it'd have made sense. The kids love Johnny Canuck and a lot of us adults do to. Even had they just do it as an alternate jersey for say ten games a season. You don't think this jersey looks sharp and wouldn't have sold? I'd have lined up to buy one had they gone with this and so would a lot of Canuck fans. The team can do whatever they want with their primary but do a Johnny Canuck one so everyone can be pleased as I see we Canuck fans aren't all in agreement on a proper logo and it isn't going to end anytime soon. I don't know what is so 'beer league' looking about it or junior team as you imply? In my US travels to go watch the Canucks play in Vegas, Arizona, etc. I have usually worn my green Johnny Canuck jersey and I've had other teams fans come up and ask me about the jersey that they have never seen it before. They tell me tell your team to throw it on a jersey and we'd buy one. The team should just do one to please those fans especially the little kids that like the Johnny Canuck logo. I mean you already see Johnny Canuck on a lot of the teams merchandise and it sells well so wouldn't it make sense to finally put it on a jersey already? In 2011 at the teams superskills competition they wore a Johnny Canuck practice jersey and people bought them up game worn practice worn right afterwards. Sold all of them out no problem. So do one finally and it'll please everyone that would like to see one done. love these jerseys, this is one time when I hope the snowflakes get their way so we can make the change. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowtieCanuck Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 14 hours ago, DeNiro said: And what about the logo? If the whole argument is about appropriation then that would fall in the same category no? How about we just claim our orca is an actual orca? Easy out. The likeness is depicting an individual, it's not designed to play on racial stereotypes. BTW, I'm not for changing the Orca. It's been made very clear from the response in the last few days that many first nations bands and people have no issue with it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 1 hour ago, BowtieCanuck said: The likeness is depicting an individual, it's not designed to play on racial stereotypes. BTW, I'm not for changing the Orca. It's been made very clear from the response in the last few days that many first nations bands and people have no issue with it. Whether it’s an actual person or not would not change it being appropriation if that’s the argument. That being said I could care less if they change it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dumb Nuck Posted December 17, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 17, 2020 4 hours ago, Petey40 said: Lol except there is a big difference. One of the cultures was attacked and almost snuffed out of existence from colonialism and the other one came from ancient Christians, Europeans, and colonialism. I was always curious how many cultures were wiped out by the various tribes in the thousands of years before Europeans arrived and who stole what from whom. No one is innocent, war is human nature. 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petey40 Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 28 minutes ago, Dumb Nuck said: I was always curious how many cultures were wiped out by the various tribes in the thousands of years before Europeans arrived and who stole what from whom. No one is innocent, war is human nature. Yeah we humans suck lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 10 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said: I don't care what some prof from Winnipeg has to say, no moral hight ground there for me. It would bother me if the Salish were upset, but thankfully the Canucks were smart enough to talk to them way back when. Even then it would be a reach being upset to a swede(A nation with no historical ties to Native-Canadians) who made the mask for a white guy who's super outspoken for equality. The context of this entire situation points to Holtby wanting to positively honor the native culture. Only issue you could have is having a problem with a swede making native art which would be no different than an Asian/Africian/South American/etc doing it. Or not letting a white guy wear any native apparel despite the fact that he's outspoken for equality. Either would be pretty non-inclusive and in not a very good or sensible way. Either way we got to find a way to be more inclusive with each other. Everyone will also have to come to terms with the past sins at some point. White people weren't great then but society has grown immensely since those dark days. Can't always fault the sins of ancestors to the current generations, it leaves an unnecessary stain that helps prohibit equality/inclusiveness and promote bitterness towards each other. Overall we're all are gonna have a tough time trying to move forward if we're always looking backwards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Dumb Nuck said: I was always curious how many cultures were wiped out by the various tribes in the thousands of years before Europeans arrived and who stole what from whom. No one is innocent, war is human nature. Everyone was enslaving everyone everywhere pre-gun powder. Everyone killing everyone. Everyone invading everyone trying to expand. What's kind of crazy is how quickly society rooted out all that in such a short time. Last 10 years we've seen a black dude as the Leader of the US. 156 years ago they were slaves. Kind of different position where I had ancestors that were slaves and ancestors that were white during that era in NA and the Caribbean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenspear Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 https://bc.ctvnews.ca/grand-chief-says-he-s-not-offended-by-canucks-logo-1.5233048 Excerpt from the article: 'Lynch and his team knew the look would be controversial, and acquired opinions from several First Nations chiefs. “They didn’t have a problem with it, and thought it was too cartoonish to be Indigenous art,” said Lynch from his Vancouver Island home. “We wouldn’t have done it if it was too close to their ceremonial art.” Grand Chief Doug Kelly with the Stó:lō Tribal Council agrees it doesn’t look like First Nations art. He told CTV News he is not offended by the logo because in his opinion, there was no intent by the Canucks to be offensive. “Is racism an issue? Absolutely. Is it something we should work together to eradicate? Absolutely. But am I troubled by the Canucks logo? No way, nope, no way,” said Chief Kelly.' So why is this an issue? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, Nucksfollower1983 said: love these jerseys, this is one time when I hope the snowflakes get their way so we can make the change. Loggers everywhere need to be consulted first. Especially any with gender preferences that are not the norm, and a visible minority. I mean come on not everyone can grow a kick-ass beard either. What about those guys that are testosterone challenged? And our poor core. Having to try and push out a playoff beard at such a young age and compete with Johnny Canuck. Very insensitive of you to offend so many honest hard working folks. Edited December 17, 2020 by IBatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Chickenspear said: https://bc.ctvnews.ca/grand-chief-says-he-s-not-offended-by-canucks-logo-1.5233048 Excerpt from the article: 'Lynch and his team knew the look would be controversial, and acquired opinions from several First Nations chiefs. “They didn’t have a problem with it, and thought it was too cartoonish to be Indigenous art,” said Lynch from his Vancouver Island home. “We wouldn’t have done it if it was too close to their ceremonial art.” Grand Chief Doug Kelly with the Stó:lō Tribal Council agrees it doesn’t look like First Nations art. He told CTV News he is not offended by the logo because in his opinion, there was no intent by the Canucks to be offensive. “Is racism an issue? Absolutely. Is it something we should work together to eradicate? Absolutely. But am I troubled by the Canucks logo? No way, nope, no way,” said Chief Kelly.' So why is this an issue? It’s not. Other then a large part of the fanbase still peeved at the change in the first place - which will eventually go away as we age out. That said continuity is more important, thanks to Naslund and the Sedins the Orca has had its moments. Just leave well enough alone, and I prefer the Linden uniforms (skate) and SIR. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimito Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Until the team wins a cup, they can keep changing the logo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 15 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said: Vancouver Grizzlies Hockey Club. Instead of a basketball a Grizzly snapping a stick in half. There we get black, and a small portion can be donated to the Western Canada Wilderness Committee. Everyones happy. Unless bears get offended. Wouldn't be appropriate as Gizzlies don't live in the city.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 On 12/15/2020 at 2:22 PM, StealthNuck said: These are fantastic: The stick-in-rink logo looks cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt kilgore Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) still miffed that McCaw said no to Brent Lynch's first idea for a new logo, He said he'd pass so Lynch presented it to the Giants. If this would have been re-worked in Canuck colours, it would have been great, and probably would have satisfied most disgruntled fans. He even used the horizontal stick paying homage to the stick-in-rink unis. But I digress. As far as the controversy of the present day logo, its stupid. And furthermore, I think its damaging to actual theft of Canadian first nations art through copying artists styles. Its a big problem. There is a fantastic and gut wrenching Canadian documentary on the forgeries of Morrisseau's work, called "There are no fakes". Worth checking out. A lot of an ugly underbelly of native art forgery gets exposed beyond the initial court case by The Bare Naked Ladies guitarist Kevin Hearn after he bought a forgery thinking it was authentic. But in this case we have a designer who consulted first nations during the process, and they had no problem, and to this day, FN chiefs support it. https://www.traderumours.com/First-Nations-Chief-sees-no-issue-with-Vancouver-Canucks-logo-30048&s=8CTV also caught up with the creator of the logo, Brent Lynch, who told them First Nations Chiefs were consulted during the creation of the orca design. "They didn't have a problem with it, and thought it was too cartoonish to be Indigenous art,” said Lynch from his Vancouver Island home. “We wouldn't have done it if it was too close to their ceremonial art.” And the Canucks have always made sure to work with and honour the native community over the years https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/indigenous-art-knock-offs-at-a-crisis-say-artists-1.4369639 Xwalacktun is a Squamish and Namgis artist who has designed five of the NHL Vancouver Canucks' official mascot "Fin's" drums. "Fin called me up and commissioned me to do these drums," he laughed. One of five drums played by Vancouver Canucks' official mascot Fin. It was designed and built by Xwalacktun, a Squamish and Namgis artist. (Xwalacktun) Xwalacktun says Fin drumming gets a green light not just because of the sacrament of hockey but also because he reached out to the local Indigenous community. Edited December 18, 2020 by kilgore 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 1 hour ago, kilgore said: still miffed that McCaw said no to Brent Lynch's first idea for a new logo, It's certainly better than the running man but I still prefer the Orca. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESP77 Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 On 12/15/2020 at 1:19 PM, StealthNuck said: A- Welcome. B- This has been discussed for a while, but it's also been ignored for a while. C- It's been brough up by more than one person. D- It's a simple discussion, no company has caved and nothing has changed yet. E- Hyperbole. I would love it if you could introduce me to the world you live in where individual people are going around making companies cave and change everything. Sounds nice. Well all the FN groups have come out and said they have no problem and appreciate the Canucks engagement with them over the years, so yes, it is just one moron complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanfor42 Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 When faced with someone saying hey the Orca is inappropriate it is ok to take that statement on face value and agree or disagree. Discussion is ok. At the end of the day, it is about hearing everyone's opinion that is important, not about who "wins". These type of things are not really winnable. The discussion and sharing of opinions and ideas and beliefs is what is useful and really is the whole point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowtieCanuck Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 23 hours ago, DeNiro said: Whether it’s an actual person or not would not change it being appropriation if that’s the argument. It absolutely would if you've trying to depict an individual. Not respecting the culture and its sanctity is appropriation. Naming a team after someone and making their likeness the logo is appreciation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumb Nuck Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, Baggins said: Wouldn't be appropriate as Gizzlies don't live in the city.... If I want to find a grizzly I can go up Grouse mountain, if I want to find an orca, I have no clue, maybe Alaska. BCs official mammal is the spirit bear, not some fish wannabe. Edited December 18, 2020 by Dumb Nuck 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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