Coronavirus outbreak

[Toews]

2 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

TBH guys, I don't see the reason for so much debate. It seems to me that it might be effective in dealing with symptoms, but more study is required before saying that this is definitively the case.

 

Or have I missed something?

Of course you do. You have been part of the Trump thread as long as I have... In summary...

 

Trump in his tweets and also to the media pushes a drug hydroxychloroquine which in conjunction with the antibiotic azithromycin had shown some promising signs in an experimental study. Everyone who isn't a superfan of Trump is able to reason that it is stupid and irresponsible for the POTUS to be pushing a drug so publicly before its efficacy has been proven, to avoid a situation where someone ingests fish tank cleaner because they think the President just gave them the cure to a deadly virus. 

 

Now the drug itself has been politicized, Trump's hardcore supporters think by proving the efficacy of the drug they can then justify Trump's initial stupidity and disprove the "lies" told by the "MSM". I believe they will fall back on their 4Dchess/Stable Genius narrative, it wasn't stupidity but Trump's superior intellect on display, publicizing a drug that saved people's lives. 

[stawns]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

You haven't missed anything.  Hydroxycloroquine is currently being used at Lynn Valley Care Centre in North Vancouver to treat patients and staff as a clinical trial.  This was started weeks ago.  It is also being tested in several other provinces in Canada as well.  JAMP, one of the largest drug manufacturers in Canada, is making over 1 million doses of these pills.  Why would they do that if the drug doesn't work?  

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/6744766/hydroxychloroquine-lynn-valley-care-centre-coronavirus/

 

https://www.nsnews.com/news/covid-19-patients-at-north-van-care-home-offered-chloroquine-drugs-1.24116195

 

Deana Harlow’s father was one of the residents who took the drugs after testing positive for COVID-19 at the North Vancouver care home. He was given a five-day trial of the drug hydroxychloroquine. Two weeks later, he was declared recovered from the virus. Harlow said she was somewhat disturbed to read afterwards that the BC Centre for Disease control has recommended against taking the drugs for COVID-19, except as part of clinical trials.

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/6743283/coronavirus-malaria-drug-research/

 

“Preliminary studies have strongly suggested that hydroxychloroquine can reduce the ability of the virus to replicate,” said Zarychanski. “It’s not known if it has the same effect in humans, but it’s the team’s goal to find out.” The trials began March 26 in Manitoba and Quebec, and similar trials are also underway in the United States. Alberta and other provinces are expected to join within a few days.

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/6718833/quebec-based-pharmaceutical-company-donates-one-million-doses-of-malaria-drug-for-covid-19-patients-across-Canada/

 

Boucherville-based JAMP Pharma is donating one million doses of hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) to hospitals across Canada in the fight against COVID-19. 

 

I don't really understand this whole debate about HCG and if it is effective against COVID-19 and if it is a safe drug.  It has been around for 60+ years and already treats a number of ailments other than malaria, i.e. Lupus and Arthritis.  Not sure why anyone is even questioning the effectiveness of this drug and making it sound like it is so dangerous when millions of people around the world are already using it.  There are side effects if taken in high doses, but taking Aleve in high doses also has side effects.  ANY off the counter drug will have damaging effect if taken improperly and in high doses.

There's no debate around trials, the debate is around telling the general public that it should be used and that it's some great hope, when it's not been tested for that.  Were not suddenly going to stop the process of testing drugs the way they've always done it .........there's a process for a reason.

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Duodenum said:

Without a strong clinical trial, there is no way to show that it's effective against the coronavirus other than case reports and anecdotal evidence, very weak forms of evidence and not one any scientist/doctor/pharmacist out there that would recommend widespread use with. Basically have to wait for the WHO trials to finish to know whether it's any good or not. 

 

180 patient control trial in France just showed no benefit as of today. Doesn't mean it doesn't work, but it's stronger evidence for the 'no benefit side' than all the evidence put together on the 'benefit' side because it was a better run trial than any other so far. 

Yes I agree, that is why they are doing clinical trials all across Canada at this very moment, including right here in Vancouver.

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

2 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Do they still eat "Crisp Sandwiches"?

Only if the crisp sandwich is battered and deep fried.  

[stawns]

8 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

All drugs including over the counter drugs are dangerous in high doses including aspirin.  You are correct, it was initially used as an anti-malaria drug for the military going into war zones in third world countries, it was never initially meant to be given to seniors who are very sick.  However, they are giving it to seniors in North Vancouver where at least one person has fully recovered from the virus and they have set up clinical trials all over the country, so let's see what happens.

 

I'm not suggesting it should just be given to everyone, but the clinical trials have already started here in Vancouver and across Canada, so we should all hope that it does work, as a vaccine may take over a year before it is ready, which will result in many more thousands of deaths across the world.

A clinical trial, for general widespread use, will likely take a year or so as well.

[thedestroyerofworlds]

[JM_]

8 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

All drugs including over the counter drugs are dangerous in high doses including aspirin.  You are correct, it was initially used as an anti-malaria drug for the military going into war zones in third world countries, it was never initially meant to be given to seniors who are very sick.  However, they are giving it to seniors in North Vancouver where at least one person has fully recovered from the virus and they have set up clinical trials all over the country, so let's see what happens.

 

I'm not suggesting it should just be given to everyone, but the clinical trials have already started here in Vancouver and across Canada, so we should all hope that it does work, as a vaccine may take over a year before it is ready, which will result in many more thousands of deaths across the world.

yeah totally agree. The results should start rolling in over the next 2 weeks. But as @Duodenum pointed out, it may not be what people thought. 

 

I did see a neat article yesterday that even doing a simple thing like turning people onto their stomachs can have a dramatic effect on their breathing. So who knows, maybe simpler is better with this thing in the absence of a vaccine. 

[Elias Pettersson]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

A clinical trial, for general widespread use, will likely take a year or so as well.

Clinical trials may not take as long as an actual vaccine.  I would say by the summer time we should know pretty well if this HCQ drug really works, especially in the senior population where it is needed the most.

[stawns]

9 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Clinical trials may not take as long as an actual vaccine.  I would say by the summer time we should know pretty well if this HCQ drug really works, especially in the senior population where it is needed the most.

Where are you getting that info?

 

I agree we'll know sooner than a vaccine, which will likely be a year and a half, if it's rushed incredibly fast.  Even if HCQ does work, it's not going to be some super treatment as

It's hot serious side effects that will disqualify it as a treatment for a large swath of vulnerable people.

[Elias Pettersson]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

Where are you getting that info?

 

I agree we'll know sooner than a vaccine, which will likely be a year and a half, if it's rushed incredibly fast.  Even if HCQ does work, it's not going to be some super treatment as

It's hot serious side effects that will disqualify it as a treatment for a large swath of vulnerable people.

I'm just guessing, but since trials across the country have already started I would say a 3-6 month time frame would sound right, so it could be pushed into the fall.

 

In terms of serious side effects, what side effects are you referring to specifically?  Millions of people around the world are already taking it for Lupus, Arthritis and of course Malaria.  We don't know exactly how it will affect the senior population, that is why they are doing the trials at the care homes.

[Duodenum]

23 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

yeah totally agree. The results should start rolling in over the next 2 weeks. But as @Duodenum pointed out, it may not be what people thought. 

 

I did see a neat article yesterday that even doing a simple thing like turning people onto their stomachs can have a dramatic effect on their breathing. So who knows, maybe simpler is better with this thing in the absence of a vaccine. 

Another 150 patient study came out of China as well for hydroxychloroquine, also no benefit. 

 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.10.20060558v1

[stawns]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I'm just guessing, but since trials across the country have already started I would say a 3-6 month time frame would sound right, so it could be pushed into the fall.

 

In terms of serious side effects, what side effects are you referring to specifically?  Millions of people around the world are already taking it for Lupus, Arthritis and of course Malaria.  We don't know exactly how it will affect the senior population, that is why they are doing the trials at the care homes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/04/13/health/chloroquine-risks-coronavirus-treatment-trials-study/index.html

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020/4/7/21209539/coronavirus-hydroxychloroquine-covid-19-clinical-trial

[CBH1926]

2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

um, yikes. A gym is probably as bad or worse than being on a plane with a sick person. 

Nothing like nice piece of equipment covered with fresh sweat.

[thedestroyerofworlds]

23 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I'm just guessing, but since trials across the country have already started I would say a 3-6 month time frame would sound right, so it could be pushed into the fall.

 

In terms of serious side effects, what side effects are you referring to specifically?  Millions of people around the world are already taking it for Lupus, Arthritis and of course Malaria.  We don't know exactly how it will affect the senior population, that is why they are doing the trials at the care homes.

The people who get it for Lupus Arthritis also get regular tests and check ups to ensure that they are not experiencing any of the side effects of the drug.  Its not some wonder drug without drawbacks. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

 

Best reply to that tweet was "They're like zombies....except for the fact zombies are after brains".

 

Only negative about Darwin working on those hicks would be that they'll infect a number of innocent people along the way.

[Cerridwen]

2 hours ago, debluvscanucks said:

Geez, I thought this happened long ago!  Should have.

Mine's been closed here for 36 days now. I thought all yours had been closed, too.  Gyms....a perfect incubator...all those surfaces. What were they thinking leaving them open or leaving it up to the owner/operators?

[skolozsy2]

21 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

 

Best reply to that tweet was "They're like zombies....except for the fact zombies are after brains".

 

Only negative about Darwin working on those hicks would be that they'll infect a number of innocent people along the way.

Looks like only two people in that crowd are wearing masks as well.  And sadly, one of those masks is a Guy Fawkes mask.  Nice choice, pal.

 

 

....and is that a guy taking a leak in the reflection?  What the....

Edited April 15, 2020 by skolozsy2

[Elias Pettersson]

43 minutes ago, stawns said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/04/13/health/chloroquine-risks-coronavirus-treatment-trials-study/index.html

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020/4/7/21209539/coronavirus-hydroxychloroquine-covid-19-clinical-trial

The first article mentions the study in Brazil where they took both the hyrdoxycloroquine and the azithromycin.  The azithromycin has already been proven to cause heart issues, so doctors have already instructed patients not to take the azithromycin if they have a heart condition.  Also, the study states that most of the patients who died took a much higher dose of the hydroxychloroquine along with the azithromycin, so again as has been mentioned already taking these drugs at too high of a dosage can definitely cause problems.

 

"For the trial, patients either received a high dose of chloroquine, at 600mg twice daily for 10 days for a total dose of 12g, or they received a low dose at 450mg for five days, twice daily only on the first day, for a total dose of 2.7g. All patients also received the antibiotics ceftriaxone and azithromycin as part of their treatment. A limitation of the study is that there were no patients receiving a placebo."

[JM_]

1 hour ago, Duodenum said:

Another 150 patient study came out of China as well for hydroxychloroquine, also no benefit. 

 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.10.20060558v1

wow. Well, thats why you do the work. 

[JM_]

50 minutes ago, CBH1926 said:

Nothing like nice piece of equipment covered with fresh sweat.

the sweat sure, but the breathing from weight lifting etc., might as well be a spray bottle of virus up your honker.