Coronavirus outbreak

[4petesake]

17 minutes ago, UnkNuk said:

It's being called vaccine nationalism.

 

The thing is, I can see their point.  Suppose we had a vaccine made in Canada that we, the taxpayers, had subsidized to the tune of billions of dollars.  And there wasn't enough to immediately go around to all the countries that wanted it.  Wouldn't we be saying that Canadians should be first in line?

Not only is that exactly what we would say, it is what we already are saying. We have purchased an oversupply (maybe for charitable purposes) that we will donate to needy countries after we all have been vaccinated. I’m not sure how that is substantially different from the EU is saying. The WHO has already stated that wealthy countries are hoarding supply and leaving the less fortunate behind. I know it’s not a popular opinion but I’m not quite as proud of our position as many are.

[samurai]

1 hour ago, Kootenay Gold said:

Yes they do but most also include the note that you conveniently forgot in your post. Macrotrends explicitly made note of the fact that the data for 2020 and 2021 did not include impacts from Covid and were just projections minus any Covid factors. To not include that disclaimer in your post makes it appear that you are just cherry picking data to suit whatever agenda you may have

I would assume that most people know that since we are a month into 2021 that 2021 is a projection.  Most gov'ts make projections/estimates for deaths. This is not something conspiratorial or agenda driven.  Does not 'include impacts' does not mean that all Covid deaths were left out what it does mean is that as Stats Canada explains that data collection was hampered, delayed or missing due to lockdowns and so forth.  So yes death data is missing as it is every year.  It doesn't mean that all Covid deaths are excluded and that the rate will blow up when added.  If you go on Stats Canada you can see for yourself where some data has not been collected.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2021 by samurai

[Violator]

1 hour ago, UnkNuk said:

It's being called vaccine nationalism.

 

The thing is, I can see their point.  Suppose we had a vaccine made in Canada that we, the taxpayers, had subsidized to the tune of billions of dollars.  And there wasn't enough to immediately go around to all the countries that wanted it.  Wouldn't we be saying that Canadians should be first in line?

No not if someone had already been contractually obligated.those companies shouldn't have signed agreements.

[-DLC-]

51 minutes ago, samurai said:

I would assume that most people know that since we are a month into 2021 that 2021 is a projection.  Most gov'ts make projections/estimates for deaths. This is not something conspiratorial or agenda driven.  Does not 'include impacts' does not mean that all Covid deaths were left out what it does mean is that as Stats Canada explains that data collection was hampered, delayed or missing due to lockdowns and so forth.  So yes death data is missing as it is every year.  It doesn't mean that all Covid deaths are excluded and that the rate will blow up when added.  If you go on Stats Canada you can see for yourself where some data has not been collected.  

 

 

 

 

 

So what's your point?  Since you got called out and are still trying to tread water?

 

 

[RUPERTKBD]

Another Covidiot....

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/police-officer-s-leg-broken-assault-charges-sought-after-dispute-over-mask-order/ar-BB1d94aX?li=AAggXBV

 

Quote

 

Vancouver police say an officer broke his leg in a confrontation after a man refused to wear a mask inside a courthouse.

Const. Tania Visintin says the officer was injured when the man fell on him while being taken into custody.

She says two officers were at the court on Tuesday and intervened when the man allegedly refused a sheriff's order to put on a mask, and then refused to leave the building.

A statement from police says the man was allegedly argumentative, kicked one of the officers and then tried to reach for his firearm, leading to the scuffle.

Police say the officer could be off work for several months.

A 53-year-old Vancouver man has been handed a $230 ticket for refusing to wear a mask indoors, and police say they are also recommending charges of assault, aggravated assault and disarming a police officer.

 

I hope they throw the book at this asshat. $230 bucks is nothing. People need to know that there will be real consequences for these types of actions.

[Kootenay Gold]

21 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Another Covidiot....

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/police-officer-s-leg-broken-assault-charges-sought-after-dispute-over-mask-order/ar-BB1d94aX?li=AAggXBV

 

I hope they throw the book at this asshat. $230 bucks is nothing. People need to know that there will be real consequences for these types of actions.

A conviction of assault or aggravated assault against anyone and esp. a law officer will see this sad #$%% behind bars. Perhaps it will educate him as to what rights he does not have. Public Health Orders carry the same weight in law as the more commonly known ones that help protect the populace each and every day.

[RUPERTKBD]

28 minutes ago, Kootenay Gold said:

A conviction of assault or aggravated assault against anyone and esp. a law officer will see this sad #$%% behind bars. Perhaps it will educate him as to what rights he does not have. Public Health Orders carry the same weight in law as the more commonly known ones that help protect the populace each and every day.

Personally, I think this would be an appropriate punishment:

 

[thedestroyerofworlds]

 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7004e4.htm

SARS-CoV-2 Transmission Associated with High School Wrestling Tournaments — Florida, December 2020–January 2021

 

 

[UnkNuk]

14 hours ago, Violator said:

No not if someone had already been contractually obligated.those companies shouldn't have signed agreements.

This is where things could get tricky and the lawyers move in.

 

Does a government have the right to, in effect, cancel a company's contract?

 

For that matter, what do the contracts that Canada has signed with the pharma companies actually say?  Despite the requests of the Opposition I don't think the Government has released the terms of the contracts.

 

Be that as it may, hopefully all this blows over and the shipments get back on track as scheduled.

[RUPERTKBD]

47 minutes ago, thedestroyerofworlds said:

 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7004e4.htm

SARS-CoV-2 Transmission Associated with High School Wrestling Tournaments — Florida, December 2020–January 2021

Wrestling tournaments....

 

....just when you thought Florida couldn't get any more Florida....

[Sharpshooter]

Just now, RUPERTKBD said:

Wrestling tournaments....

 

....just when you thought Florida couldn't get any more Florida....

If only they were wrasslin gators. 

[RUPERTKBD]

1 minute ago, Sharpshooter said:

If only they were wrasslin gators. 

Ironically, that would probably have been safer.....

[PhillipBlunt]

20 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Now we have mutations, because the virus moved around so freely in different countries

 

Because...........................NO ONE LISTENED!

 

 

The virus didn't mutate because people didn't listen. That's completely false. It's mutated because that is what RNA viruses do.

 

And governments around the world have still allowed air travel to continue, which is, aside from marine travel, the only was a variant makes it from one country to another, unless that country is physically bordering another. As long as governments allow air travel to continue, this will continue to spread.

 

Local community transmission is a problem, but allowing people to fly from one infected region to another is irretrievably stupid, yet the government allows it. 

 

Here's a PDF with up to date infected passengers coming in on flights from other areas: http://www.bccdc.ca/Health-Info-Site/Documents/public-exposures-flights-tables-Current.pdf

 

 

[Sharpshooter]

35 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Ironically, that would probably have been safer.....

Fine. Wrasslin fellas named Gator. 

[Kootenay Gold]

40 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

21 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Now we have mutations, because the virus moved around so freely in different countries

 

Because...........................NO ONE LISTENED!

 

 

The virus didn't mutate because people didn't listen. That's completely false. It's mutated because that is what RNA viruses do.

 

And governments around the world have still allowed air travel to continue, which is, aside from marine travel, the only was a variant makes it from one country to another, unless that country is physically bordering another. As long as governments allow air travel to continue, this will continue to spread.

 

Local community transmission is a problem, but allowing people to fly from one infected region to another is irretrievably stupid, yet the government allows it. 

 

Here's a PDF with up to date infected passengers coming in on flights from other areas: http://www.bccdc.ca/Health-Info-Site/Documents/public-exposures-flights-tables-Current.pdf

 

I think you are both right to the extent that I believe Jan is trying to point out that the more chances this virus has to replicate itself, the more mutations there are likely to be because of that and not masking up or limiting social contact allowed the virus to flourish. Also; Phil, you are right in your postulation that a big part of the problem is the virus's freedom of movement from one distant geographical area to another which allow mutations from one area to colonize another and that would not be happening to the degree it is if air travel in particular had been restricted more than it had.

[J.I.A.H.N]

41 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

The virus didn't mutate because people didn't listen. That's completely false. It's mutated because that is what RNA viruses do.

 

And governments around the world have still allowed air travel to continue, which is, aside from marine travel, the only was a variant makes it from one country to another, unless that country is physically bordering another. As long as governments allow air travel to continue, this will continue to spread.

 

Local community transmission is a problem, but allowing people to fly from one infected region to another is irretrievably stupid, yet the government allows it. 

 

Here's a PDF with up to date infected passengers coming in on flights from other areas: http://www.bccdc.ca/Health-Info-Site/Documents/public-exposures-flights-tables-Current.pdf

 

 

What I said is true Phil

Now we have mutations, because the virus moved around so freely in different countries

 

My point is exactly what you said.

 

We started out with 1 virus....no mutations

If we could have stopped it early, before it mutated.....we would not have any

But it spread..........from one community to another, from one country to another, and continued the evolution

And every time, it jumps, it mutates, ever so slightly, eventually mutating enough to be of concern

So as this virus took hold in different countries, it mutated enough to be identified

Now,"IF" people would have all stayed home, then it would have died at that point and not had a chance to mutate

but it had moved on before we could trace it, at the same time multiplying at a rate that made it impossible to catch

Now we are at a point where the Vaccines developed are being questioned because the Virus has mutated enough

not to be affected as much by the Vaccine, and that is now what they are worried about

So, if we don't get that vaccine into the arms of enough people soon, we run the risk of having to start this all again

 

or we could all staty home for a month and not go out and it would die out and not jump

(That is not happening!) Not here anyways................China it does, because everyone listens for fear of being shot

Correct me if I am wrong!

 

Now I will repeat what I said at the end of that quote.............Because..........................."NO ONE LISTENED!"

 

I do not see where I am wrong?????

[J.I.A.H.N]

7 minutes ago, Kootenay Gold said:

I think you are both right to the extent that I believe Jan is trying to point out that the more chances this virus has to replicate itself, the more mutations there are likely to be because of that and not masking up or limiting social contact allowed the virus to flourish. Also; Phil, you are right in your postulation that a big part of the problem is the virus's freedom of movement from one distant geographical area to another which allow mutations from one area to colonize another and that would not be happening to the degree it is if air travel in particular had been restricted more than it had.

Not to beat a dead horse.....But that is exactly what I said.......albeit simply

 

WE did not listen, meant...........we did not stay at home, we travelled, we met in groups, we went to nursing homes, we flew across oceans, etc......

 

We did not stay home.............................aka we did not listen.....and when I say we, I mean man kind everywhere

[J.I.A.H.N]

I read somewhere that successful viruses actually do not kill fast, but actually mutate to a point such as where we are today, where it may take 5 to 10 days, to actually show

 

symptoms..........ones that kill too fast actually burn out, as people start shutting themselves in and not transferring the virus quick enough.

 

That is why I said what I said.............if we got it and dropped dead immediately, it would not get far..............It is not doing that, obviously

[Kootenay Gold]

2 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Not to beat a dead horse.....But that is exactly what I said.......albeit simply

 

WE did not listen, meant...........we did not stay at home, we travelled, we met in groups, we went to nursing homes, we flew across oceans, etc......

 

We did not stay home.............................aka we did not listen.....and when I say we, I mean man kind everywhere

I think you both are right in what you were trying to convey in your message but stated it in a different manner. Kind of like two people reading from the same book but on different sentences in the book

 

more transmission = more replication

more replication = greater chance of mutations occurring

 

If we had just stayed at home as much as possible and social distanced or wore masks when not possible there would have been less transmission and less replication leading to less mutations and fewer people either very sick or sadly; dead. I feel blessed that I am retired and secure financially so the restrictions have not had a major impact on me personally. Unfortunately many of my former fellow employees were living from paycheck to paycheck and this has severely impacted them and their families.

[PhillipBlunt]

4 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

What I said is true Phil

Now we have mutations, because the virus moved around so freely in different countries

 

My point is exactly what you said.

 

We started out with 1 virus....no mutations

If we could have stopped it early, before it mutated.....we would not have any

But it spread..........from one community to another, from one country to another, and continued the evolution

And every time, it jumps, it mutates, ever so slightly, eventually mutating enough to be of concern

So as this virus took hold in different countries, it mutated enough to be identified

Now,"IF" people would have all stayed home, then it would have died at that point and not had a chance to mutate

but it had moved on before we could trace it, at the same time multiplying at a rate that made it impossible to catch

Now we are at a point where the Vaccines developed are being questioned because the Virus has mutated enough

not to be affected as much by the Vaccine, and that is now what they are worried about

So, if we don't get that vaccine into the arms of enough people soon, we run the risk of having to start this all again

 

or we could all staty home for a month and not go out and it would die out and not jump

(That is not happening!) Not here anyways................China it does, because everyone listens for fear of being shot

Correct me if I am wrong!

 

Now I will repeat what I said at the end of that quote.............Because..........................."NO ONE LISTENED!"

 

I do not see where I am wrong?????

RNA viruses mutate at a much higher rate that DNA viruses because viral RNA polymerases lack the capability to error correct or "proofread" that DNA viruses do. The also have a far greater range of diversity at the gene level which makes effective vaccination harder to complete. 

 

Essentially viruses mutate as a law of nature, not solely because a host organism moved it from one region to another. So you're somewhat right, but not completely. 

 

And of course Jinping and his vile political party kept people in their homes for an extended period of time, because that very government tried to suppress it's own doctors, namely the international hero Li Weilang from releasing valuable information to the rest of the world to stave off the spread of the virus, which originated in Wuhan.

 

Blame for this pandemic starts with Jinping and the CCP. Simple as that. They've silenced who knows how many Chinese citizens from speaking freely, and millions more for having different belief systems, especially the Uyghurs, who are being held against their will, to the tune of some 3,000,000 people, in concentration camps.