Coronavirus outbreak

[Warhippy]

5 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

I'd like to know how many unknown deaths there was in 2019, before the vax.

 

Let's say the vax does "likely play a significant role  in being a primary cause in unexpected cardiac arrests' and that has pushed unexpected deaths into the #1 spot.

Don't we need to subtract the amount of unexpected deaths in a pre-vax year from this total? 

Even if true, you cant claim all unexpected deaths in the province are due to the vax!

 

Expert or not, the second someone makes a claim like that it needs to be dissected.  

[bishopshodan]

6 minutes ago, JM_ said:

it took me 9 seconds to find this: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1310039401

 

there are not "unknown" causes of death on the rise. 

Whoops, I typed 'unexpected' instead of 'unknown' a few times in that post but you got what I was curious about. 

 

I dont see stats for just AB, or afer the year 2020 in your link. 

I also dont see a category for 'unknown deaths'?

[Warhippy]

3 minutes ago, mdehaan said:

Yes, we do. Good point.

 

Had you heard of myocarditis before 2020? What about sudden adult death syndrome?

wtf...sudden adult death sydrome?

 

You mean...death from natural causes, ie; stroke, heart attack, embolism or systemic shutdown?  Ya we've all heard of it.  Myocarditis?  Yes we'd all heard of it due to the amount of athletes who have suffered or do suffer heart issues on the ice or field.

 

Suggesting this is new is playing on ignorance and I know you're about to do a header in to this so lemme save ya the trouble.

 

You're wrong.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, bishopshodan said:

Whoops, I typed 'unexpected' instead of 'unknown' a few times in that post but you got what I was curious about. 

 

I dont see stats for just AB, or afer the year 2020 in your link. 

I also dont see a category for 'unknown deaths'?

thats because there aren't any. 

[bishopshodan]

5 minutes ago, mdehaan said:

Yes, we do. Good point.

 

Had you heard of myocarditis before 2020? What about sudden adult death syndrome?

Oh, I hadn't heard of a lot of medical things before all this hubbub...

 

[mdehaan]

4 minutes ago, JM_ said:

thats because there aren't any. 

before 2020.....

[Gurn]

11 minutes ago, mdehaan said:

Had you heard of myocarditis before 2020?

When I was 12, and I'm now 58.

[mdehaan]

International Journal of Infectious diseases' (2022)

 

OP04.02 (797) Excess Deaths during COVID-19 pandemic in Alberta, Canada
S. Beesoon 1,∗ , M.A. Joffe 2, J. Bakal 3, K. Williams 4, M. Brindle 1 1Alberta Health Services, Surgery Strategic Clinical Network, Edmonton, Canada 2Alberta Health Services, Clinical Support Services and Provincial Clinical Excellence, Edmonton, Canada 3Alberta Health Services, Provincial Research Data Services, Calgary, Canada 4Alberta Health Services, Indigenous Wellness Core, Calgary, Canada

 

Conclusion: There was statistically significant increase in allcause mortality. Although older adults are more likely to die of COVID-19, there was massive increase in non-COVID-19 related mortality among the youth. These should be factored in public policy decisions on epidemic/pandemic management.

 

https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(21)00946-2/pdf

 

These sources should be satisfcatory for you...?

[KristoffWixenschon]

9 minutes ago, mdehaan said:

International Journal of Infectious diseases' (2022)

 

OP04.02 (797) Excess Deaths during COVID-19 pandemic in Alberta, Canada
S. Beesoon 1,∗ , M.A. Joffe 2, J. Bakal 3, K. Williams 4, M. Brindle 1 1Alberta Health Services, Surgery Strategic Clinical Network, Edmonton, Canada 2Alberta Health Services, Clinical Support Services and Provincial Clinical Excellence, Edmonton, Canada 3Alberta Health Services, Provincial Research Data Services, Calgary, Canada 4Alberta Health Services, Indigenous Wellness Core, Calgary, Canada

 

Conclusion: There was statistically significant increase in allcause mortality. Although older adults are more likely to die of COVID-19, there was massive increase in non-COVID-19 related mortality among the youth. These should be factored in public policy decisions on epidemic/pandemic management.

 

https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(21)00946-2/pdf

 

These sources should be satisfcatory for you...?

They attributed the vast majority of those deaths to covid and drug overdoses (overdoses spiked during the pandemic). The remaining 27.9% of increased unexpected deaths, they attributed to people being unable to or uncomfortable accessing medical care during the worst of the pandemic. I'm sure that increased rates of suicide and violent crime in that age category didn't help those numbers.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, KristoffWixenschon said:

They attributed the vast majority of those deaths to covid and drug overdoses (overdoses spiked during the pandemic). The remaining 27.9% of increased unexpected deaths, they attributed to people being unable to or uncomfortable accessing medical care during the worst of the pandemic. I'm sure that increased rates of suicide and violent crime in that age category didn't help those numbers.

its sad when you have to read their sources for them. 

[JM_]

@bishopshodan the problem with these discussions is you're getting sucked into the anti-vax playbook. Oh, look here, here's the one (or very few) doctors brave enough to "tell the truth".... just look at these stats over here..... etc. 

 

Go back and look at the playbook for autism and vaccines. Tells you what you need to know. 

 

The anti-vaxxers know how to play on the fears and mistrust some folks inherently have. Thats why you'll never be able to convince them they are off in the rhubarb. 

[bishopshodan]

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

@bishopshodan the problem with these discussions is you're getting sucked into the anti-vax playbook. Oh, look here, here's the one (or very few) doctors brave enough to "tell the truth".... just look at these stats over here..... etc. 

 

Go back and look at the playbook for autism and vaccines. Tells you what you need to know. 

 

The anti-vaxxers know how to play on the fears and mistrust some folks inherently have. Thats why you'll never be able to convince them they are off in the rhubarb. 

I dont think I am getting sucked in.

 

I refer to experts in many areas of my life, as I think most people should do.

If the vast majority of said experts support the vax then I will go with that.

 

People forget the damage of covid, some forget the we lost alot of people. My mum lost two friends and I know folks on this board have lost familly members. 

 

I just don't mind hearing where these ideas come from. I once actually listened to an entire flat earth pod cast. It was very entertaining. 

[mdehaan]

29 minutes ago, KristoffWixenschon said:

They attributed the vast majority of those deaths to covid and drug overdoses (overdoses spiked during the pandemic). The remaining 27.9% of increased unexpected deaths, they attributed to people being unable to or uncomfortable accessing medical care during the worst of the pandemic. I'm sure that increased rates of suicide and violent crime in that age category didn't help those numbers.

Covid is listed as #3 on the list and drug overdose at #10.

 

Also "being unable to or uncomfortable accessing medical care during the worst of the pandemic" is not a cause of death.

 

[thedestroyerofworlds]

43 minutes ago, mdehaan said:

Covid is listed as #3 on the list and drug overdose at #10.

 

Also "being unable to or uncomfortable accessing medical care during the worst of the pandemic" is not a cause of death.

 

Ya, about that.

 

Sure 2021 saw 1075 deaths due to acute myocardial infarction.

 

in 2020 it was 1067.

 

in 2019 it was 1061.

 

in 2018 it was 1071.

 

in 2017 it was 1028.

 

It goes on like that.

 

2018 has (BLANK) as listed as 550 deaths.  

 

From https://open.alberta.ca/opendata/leading-causes-of-death.  

 

So your meme is not saying what you think it says.  

Edited October 20, 2022 by thedestroyerofworlds

[KristoffWixenschon]

36 minutes ago, mdehaan said:

Covid is listed as #3 on the list and drug overdose at #10.

 

Also "being unable to or uncomfortable accessing medical care during the worst of the pandemic" is not a cause of death.

 

Yes but your previous source was discussing excess deaths (ie. Deaths above which would normally be expected). Since covid is a new source of death and overdoses have increased, they make up the majority of unexpected deaths. 

 

Being unable to access care is not a cause of death, you're correct. But it directly leads to a cause of death. Examples: not seeking medical advice on your arrhythmia due to fear of covid. No regular blood pressure checks. Not getting regular blood labs done. 

Inability to access preventative treatment leads to poor outcomes. 

[Jimmy James]

2 hours ago, mdehaan said:

Yes, we do. Good point.

 

Had you heard of myocarditis before 2020? What about sudden adult death syndrome?

Myocarditis was discovered in the mid 1800’s . It’s directly linked to, and one of the main causes of SIDS (present in 17-20% of cases, pre-Covid)
 

Sudden Adult Death Syndrome is actually Sudden Arrhythmia Death Syndrome for those that have any idea about what they are talking about, and it’s been widely studied since the 70’s. Most cardiac deaths are directly linked to arrhythmias precipitating cardiac arrest. These are most often caused by faulty electrical signalling to the heart. 

 

let me know if I can clear up any other low hanging fruit for you.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Jimmy James

[KristoffWixenschon]

7 minutes ago, Jimmy James said:

Myocarditis was discovered in the mid 1800’s . It’s directly linked to, and one of the main causes of SIDS (present in 17-20% of cases, pre-Covid)
 

Sudden Adult Death Syndrome is actually Sudden Arrhythmia Death Syndrome for those that have any idea about what they are talking about, and it’s been widely studied since the 70’s.

 

let me know if I can clear up any other low hanging fruit for you.

I think the little insults are what stops people from staying open during respectful debate. 

I dont think anyone has ever helped someone form a new opinion by insinuating their stupidity. 

[mdehaan]

46 minutes ago, Jimmy James said:

Myocarditis was discovered in the mid 1800’s . It’s directly linked to, and one of the main causes of SIDS (present in 17-20% of cases, pre-Covid)
 

Sudden Adult Death Syndrome is actually Sudden Arrhythmia Death Syndrome for those that have any idea about what they are talking about, and it’s been widely studied since the 70’s. Most cardiac deaths are directly linked to arrhythmias precipitating cardiac arrest. These are most often caused by faulty electrical signalling to the heart. 

 

let me know if I can clear up any other low hanging fruit for you.

Even so, it may have been around but now it seems it is prevalent, where a decade ago it was not.

[Jimmy James]

21 minutes ago, mdehaan said:

Even so, it may have been around but now it seems it is prevalent, where a decade ago it was not.

It has always been prevalent, I just provided you pre-Covid stats of it’s prevalence. It has always been the underlying cause of many different deaths. 

 

Now it’s become table talk because people who dont understand what it is are using it as an anti-vax banner. 

Edited October 20, 2022 by Jimmy James

[Jimmy James]

52 minutes ago, KristoffWixenschon said:

I think the little insults are what stops people from staying open during respectful debate. 

I dont think anyone has ever helped someone form a new opinion by insinuating their stupidity. 

You are correct. My apologies. I will re-calibrate.

 

I get frustrated when people that don’t understand medicine preach as though they do. I would prefer to be part of the conversation, and that was not my best foot forward.

 

apologies @mdehaan