Francesco Aquilini says "I have no plans to make changes."

[Honky Cat]

40 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

You could be right, we just don't know.  But the Benning supporters that hate on Gillis never blame the owner for anything in that era.  Yet try to use ownership as an excuse for Benning.  If this team ends up competing for the cup I imagine you'd be giving ALL the credit to Benning, not ownership.  So don't blame the owner or Linden for Benning's team.

 

Our owner didn't give our horrible contracts or trade more draft picks away than he brought in during a "rebuild."  Benning did.  

 

It's awesome that Benning drafted Petey & Hughes.  Though the only reason he had an opportunity to do that was because he iced the worst team in the league.  The reasons we have no depth now is because he was trading draft picks away and signing terrible contracts in a 'win now' mentality with zero results.  That's on him not the owner. 

"That was a hint things were different, because in the years after Linden was hired he became increasingly involved in day-to-day hockey operations.

In fact, it would be Linden on trade calls and making big hockey decisions. There were times when people in the organization would say “Linden is running this team.” At the time, it came as a surprise for some, who thought Linden was originally hired to be more of a figurehead." Botchford, 2018

 

Who was making the decisions?..according to Lebrun last week, Eriksson wasn't a Benning call?

 

“We’re trying to win, we’re trying to make the playoffs,” said president of hockey operations Trevor Linden. “We’re going to do everything we can to do that. Having said that, we have a firm eye on the future.

“We’ve got to do the right things. We’re going to continue to integrate young players into our lineup.”

The Canucks missed the post-season last spring for the first time in six years, but bounced back with a surprising 101-point campaign following wholesale changes upstairs and behind the bench that led to the hiring of Linden, general manager Jim Benning and head coach Willie Desjardins.

Vancouver was eliminated in the first round of the playoffs by the Calgary Flames in six games, however the three men said the Canucks will be continue with a retool on the fly, and not go into rebuild mode, when they met the media for an end-of-season debrief on Wednesday...Linden, April 2014,(before Benning hiring)

 

Your blame game, is way to cut and dry. Everybody, ownership, Benning , Linden , Gillis did good and harm to the franchise.

 

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by Honky Cat

[CanadianRugby]

20 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Also pretty convenient to simply label people of opposing views as 'Benning Bros who will defend literally every move...' which by the way, isn't true.

 

I never liked the Eriksson signing (which apparently I was unfortunately, abundantly correct on). Didn't care for the Ryan Miller contract at the time either (which I was quite incorrect on).

 

I was happy with and understood the reasoning for the Beagle and Roussel signings while also agreeing they're inefficient cap/'overpaid'. But we had to overpay to get them here and their contracts expire before we really need the cap (especially when everyone expected Pettersson to take at least another year). I'd still do the Beagle contract and while at the time, something like a 'Dorsett replacement' was a solid plan, with hindsight, I'd probably not bother with Roussel (even though I like him as a player).

 

The ability to see the nuance, context and reasoning around moves, even for things that don't work out in hindsight, does not make one a 'blind apologist' as some would have you believe. That's just lazy thinking and a poor substitute for actual debate/discussion.

 

What the schism between 'sides' really boils down to IMO is that some people simply didn't like the way the Canucks decided to rebuild with spending cap or the occasional asset on veteran support, insulation and mentors.

 

Some of us did and/or understand the context and reasoning behind doing so.

 

Happily, whichever side your on, Benning has managed to largely rebuild a new core, with a bunch of potential support player-prospects, regardless (despite his reported 'poor' drafting LMAO).

 

And at least we'll all have the common ground of agreeing that Eriksson's contract is AWFUL 

 

Most hockey analysts were trashing a lot of these moves for years, and on CDC they were just called biased media and haters. It's NOT hindsight.  

 

The Athletic breaks it down pretty well.

and 

 

[CanadianRugby]

1 minute ago, Honky Cat said:

"That was a hint things were different, because in the years after Linden was hired he became increasingly involved in day-to-day hockey operations.

In fact, it would be Linden on trade calls and making big hockey decisions. There were times when people in the organization would say “Linden is running this team.” At the time, it came as a surprise for some, who thought Linden was originally hired to be more of a figurehead." Botchford, 2018

 

Yes same people were reporting that Linden quit because Benning wanted to win now while Linden wanted to rebuild.  The team went with Benning's plan, this is his mess.

[Honky Cat]

20 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

Yes same people were reporting that Linden quit because Benning wanted to win now while Linden wanted to rebuild.  The team went with Benning's plan, this is his mess.

"Two years ago Benning survived the firing of team president Trevor Linden, largely because his assessment of the Canucks was more aligned with the Aquilinis than Linden’s. Loosely stated, Benning felt the Canucks were close to winning. Linden thought they were still four years away".May 2020, Province

 

Linden wanted to do a 'slow cook' rebuild starting in 2018.

So, no Miller trade, Myers signing, last years playoff run doesnt even happen.

Building half full, more losing.

If you're not competing, your team is not a destination, players don't stick around.

Linden wanted the "Boston' model 'rebuild on the fly' in 2014, and in 2018, wanted the 4 year slow cook "Winnipeg ' model

Ownership had heard enough, they weren't going down the wrong garden path two times in a row. Bye Trevor.

Edited February 21, 2021 by Honky Cat

[oldnews]

27 minutes ago, Honky Cat said:

"That was a hint things were different, because in the years after Linden was hired he became increasingly involved in day-to-day hockey operations.

In fact, it would be Linden on trade calls and making big hockey decisions. There were times when people in the organization would say “Linden is running this team.” At the time, it came as a surprise for some, who thought Linden was originally hired to be more of a figurehead." Botchford, 2018

 

Who was making the decisions?..according to Lebrun last week, Eriksson wasn't a Benning call?

 

“We’re trying to win, we’re trying to make the playoffs,” said president of hockey operations Trevor Linden. “We’re going to do everything we can to do that. Having said that, we have a firm eye on the future.

“We’ve got to do the right things. We’re going to continue to integrate young players into our lineup.”

The Canucks missed the post-season last spring for the first time in six years, but bounced back with a surprising 101-point campaign following wholesale changes upstairs and behind the bench that led to the hiring of Linden, general manager Jim Benning and head coach Willie Desjardins.

Vancouver was eliminated in the first round of the playoffs by the Calgary Flames in six games, however the three men said the Canucks will be continue with a retool on the fly, and not go into rebuild mode, when they met the media for an end-of-season debrief on Wednesday...Linden, April 2014,(before Benning hiring)

 

Your blame game, is way to cut and dry. Everybody, ownership, Benning , Linden , Gillis did good and harm to the franchise.

 

 

I don't know why Botchford would have been 'surprised' - or perceived that Linden became 'increasingly involved'...

 

It was an issue that was front-row center from day 1.

 

Quote

 

Aquilini said Linden will make all hockey-related decisions.

"Trevor will make all of the decisions on hockey-related personnel, coaches, players, free agents," Aquilini said. "Trevor will in be charge of all hockey operations and make all the decisions."

Quote

"I have had a great conversation with Francesco and his family and they have given me full control to make the right decisions and full autonomy."

https://vancouversun.com/Sports/Canucks - Hockey/vancouver-canucks-hand-trevor-linden-keys-to-the-canucks-kingdom-as-new-president?r

 

Quote

Mr. Linden was asked about the autonomy he has been promised; he said he is satisfied he will be free to make all decisions he believes are in the best interests of the team. Mr. Aquilini confirmed his new charge is in "full control."

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/canucks-counting-on-linden-to-reverse-course/article17909681/

 

Quote

Facing a fan revolt that threatened to deal a costly blow to his organization's bottom line, Vancouver Canucks owner Francesco Aquilini turned to icon Trevor Linden to reverse his team's sliding fortunes.

Mr. Linden was named president of hockey operations on Wednesday and will assume complete responsibility for the on-ice performance of the slumping team for which he played 16 of his 19 NHL seasons. Despite his enduring popularity with the Canucks' fan base, the move is not without risk: The former team captain comes to the rescue with zero front office experience. His learning curve will be steep.

"Trevor Linden is back where he belongs," said Mr. Aquilini, in introducing the man he hopes will help quell the dissent that led to the firing of the team's general manager earlier this week.

The Canucks will miss the playoffs for the first time since 2008, this after a stretch of unparalleled success that saw the team get to within one win of the Stanley Cup in 2011. But this year was a disaster, with fans unhappy with the direction that GM Mike Gillis was taking the team and the manner in which John Tortorella was coaching it.

Season-ticket renewals were going poorly. And, of course, missing the playoffs costs an NHL team millions in potential revenue. The Aquilinis did not make their billions allowing faltering business models to persist, so getting rid of an unpopular GM and replacing him with the most popular player in the franchise's 42-year history was a move designed to arrest widespread disenchantment and get fans believing in the future again.

 

Mr. Linden had to begin his news conference by admitting that he misled the co-hosts of a television show he appeared on Tuesday morning while promoting his fitness chain. The interview occurred as reports were bursting out on Twitter and elsewhere that he was destined to be named the new president of the team. He denied it and said he had not talked to the Aquilinis about any job with the club; this while knowing he would be introduced as the new team president the following day. He said he phoned the hosts Wednesday to apologize, telling them he was caught in an impossible position.

"I absolutely had to do what I did," said Mr. Linden, 43.

After that awkward beginning, however, his opening news conference was handled with the genial aplomb for which he is widely known and appreciated. Many of the reporters chronicling the moment covered Mr. Linden during his playing days. Some referred to him as "Trev" before asking a question. It is a cozy relationship that will certainly be tested in the months and years to come.

As may be the relationship between president and owner.

The role that Mr. Aquilini plays in personnel decisions has been much discussed in Vancouver. He describes himself as merely a fan. Others, however, suggest he is an owner who likes to meddle. Mr. Aquilini fiercely denies this and has said he is obviously apprised of pending hockey-related decisions but does not get into detailed discussions with his general manager about the pros and cons of them. Mr. Linden was asked about the autonomy he has been promised; he said he is satisfied he will be free to make all decisions he believes are in the best interests of the team. Mr. Aquilini confirmed his new charge is in "full control." That assurance is certain to be scrutinized and re-evaluated in the months ahead.

 

 

Mr. Linden's appointment was generally cheered by Canucks fans who remember the new president as one of the team's greatest leaders, known more for his work ethic and tenacity than high-end skill. One of the most enduring images of him remains the scene on the ice at Madison Square Garden after the Canucks lost Game 7 of the Stanley Cup final. After the final siren sounded, Mr. Linden knelt on one knee, his face a bruised and battered portrait of playoff pain and disappointment.

As much as he was respected for his grit and determination on the ice, Mr. Linden was perhaps more admired for the work he did off it. His visits to see sick children in hospitals were legendary. The charitable causes to which he lent his name and time were many. When he hung up his skates six seasons ago, people urged him to run for public office. He demurred.

When he left hockey he left the Canucks too, in part because he didn't want to be that player that hung around the rink after retiring, in part because he did not enjoy a good relationship with Mike Gillis. That enmity between the two men prevented Mr. Linden from taking on any kind of meaningful role with the team, something most everyone thought was a fait accompli after his playing days were over. His absence never seemed right. His destiny always seemed to include a future in which he ran the team whose colours he bled.

Now he has that role. He will no doubt enjoy a lengthy honeymoon but then face the inevitable criticism that comes with the job. He says he's ready and in for the long haul.

"I'd love to be sitting here in 20 years still doing this," he said.

That optimism may come in handy.

I would guess/speculate that renegotiating this fundamental crux might be what lead to the end of Linden's tenure

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by oldnews

[CanadianRugby]

18 minutes ago, Honky Cat said:

Lnden wanted to do a 'slow cook' rebuild starting in 2018.

So, no Miller trade, Myers signing, last years playoff run doesnt even happen.

Building half full, more losing.

If you're not competing, your team is not a destination, players don't stick around.

Linden wanted the "Boston' model 'rebuild on the fly' in 2014, and in 2018, wanted the 4 year slow cook "Winnipeg ' model

Ownership had heard enough, they weren't going down the wrong garden path two times in a row. Bye Trevor.

It's hard to talk about the Miller trade or Myers signing.  Considering the team would be completely different if they had been hoarding draft picks instead of "going for it." You could just as well argue no 11 million 4th line, just young speed and talent if they had more picks.  We just don't know what the situation would be like if the team had a different direction years ago. 

 

Also it's beyond a joke to say players wouldn't stay and building would be half empty if the team didn't try and compete.  Guys like you used to say that if the team lost as much as Edmonton, fans would vanish and all our prospects would be ruined.  The Canucks were the WORST team in the league despite Benning throwing draft picks and money away.  Fans stayed, and our prospects didn't get ruined.  

 

Now the narrative has changed to.. oh it wasn't the losing that would be bad, it'd be the trying to lose.  Guess what.  Coaches and players never try to lose, GMs do.  Players didn't leave because of the team losing.  They left because Benning is paying $6million to healthy scratches and 3rd rate defensemen!

[Fred65]

Quote

no you weren't  ,

Just tell me how on earth you know what I was thinking better than I know what I'm thinking ... just for the record I was definitely thinking post Sakic era. If you do have mind reading capacity ... some thing like Gypsy Roselee  maybe you let me know what the Lotto numbers are going to be next week   I'll be waiting, better you send a private message 

[kanucks25]

18 hours ago, iceman64 said:

your such an _____..  do you even think before you speak? troll..

Stick to name-calling because you have absolutely no rebuttal.

 

It's about the only thing left to do after one of the most asinine posts/comments I've ever seen on CDC in my 15 years here (which is saying something).

[aGENT]

3 hours ago, Honky Cat said:

The reasoning behind the Beagle signing was a 'void of leadership' in the room according to Benning. The Sedins were retiring. At the time of the signing, it wasn't really known if Pettersson would even make the NHL summer of 2018.?.Pettersson and Hughes immediate impact put everything ahead of schedule at that point.

Oh I get it. And he did and continues to provide that leadership. As well as a key, hard minute role to furnish our talented young kids with offensive zone starts, kill penalties etc.

 

3 hours ago, Honky Cat said:

The only thing I didnt like about the 2018 UFA signings was the term, a year too long for both players.

 

And that's fair, I don't think anyone disagrees they're a year longer than 'ideal' (though it looks like we'd be fine/still need Beagle anyway). But that's sometimes the price you pay to get your guy(s). And really, while a touch inconvenient, neither are remotely large or long term problems like an Eriksson deal. I'd GLADLY exchange Eriksson for a second Beagle and Roussel personally.

 

3 hours ago, Honky Cat said:

Benning claimed after making it to the second round of the playoffs last year that he overpaid for his vets, but they played a key role in all 3 series.

 

And they did. As well as sheltering, mentoring and insulating the kids who helped get them there.

[kanucks25]

20 hours ago, aGENT said:

But there's in fact a boat load of later draft picks (not just early 1sts) that are doing well and/or trending well (you can probably even include Boeser there). So again it's not intellectually honest.

Boeser is a "later" draft pick? Lmao? I mean yeah compared to top 10 I guess technically it's "later" but it's still stop 25 overall.

 

So name them? You can really only name the ones that are recent/still developing because Benning has nothing to show for the first 5 years of his drafting outside the top of the draft. And that's not a "carefully crafted goalpost", 5 years is the majority of his tenure.

 

20 hours ago, aGENT said:

We didn't have a 2nd round pick 2 of his first 3 years.

I thought not having enough 2nd round picks was an anti-Benning argument, not pro-Benning.

 

Regardless, again, I don't see how you can claim he's a good drafter when the simple fact is nobody outside the 2nd round (or even top 40) has made an impact on this team. He's picked high, a lot, and players picked near the top of the draft are generally better players.

 

So, if you have any actual evidence that suggests that Benning is a good drafter, I'd love to see it. And if that means you're just going to list off a bunch of C-F grade prospects that have never stepped foot in the NHL and probably never will, we can just agree to disagree. Until then, I rather just not assume.

 

6 hours ago, aGENT said:

We'll also just ignore that Calder candidate, All Star player and one of the better one shot scorers in the league in Boeser wasn't in fact also an 'early 1st pick because we sucked' too while we're at it. Ok? 

Boeser was a good pick, it doesn't make him a good drafter.

 

The same reason why picking McCann over Pastrnak doesn't make him a bad drafter.

[kanucks25]

15 hours ago, the grinder said:

lol what a load of crap    demko is a 2 nd rounder  so that works    , hoglander 40 th over all  is on the team so that works  , gaudette a fifth rounder is on the team    demko contributes  every time he plays    , Hoglander is in 1 st year and  is contributing  , Gaudette passed others on the depth  chart  and plays on the team  ( say what you want about production he is on the 3rd line ). 

 So i guess  Demko winning games  in the regular season and playoffs is not contributing to the team because that what you are saying ?!  

 

   so   is demko a 2 nd rounder ?               check yes he is   36 th over all

   has demko  won games in the playoffs ?     yes he did

   has demko won in the regular season ?        yes he has 

has demko stolen a playoff game ?               even the Vegas players have said he did 

 

is hoglander a 2nd rounder   ?      double check     hoglander was drafted 40 th overall 

is hoglander  playing on the 2 nd line ?                   yes he is 

is hoglander  getting points  ?                               yes he has nine points tied for 7 th in scoring on the canucks in his first year   

 

 so there are the facts   so i named  a non first rounder  and a a top 40 pick  or did u just pick 40th to move the goal posts lol

I haven't moved any goalposts, that original post I made with the two points was from like over a week ago? I've been copy/pasting it since.

 

Again, you haven't comprehended what I posted, so really I don't know how to go forward from here.

 

We can agree to disagree on how significant Gaudette's contribution on the whole has been, same with Demko's contribution as a backup goalie last regular season.

Edited February 22, 2021 by kanucks25

[Honky Cat]

4 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

It's hard to talk about the Miller trade or Myers signing.  Considering the team would be completely different if they had been hoarding draft picks instead of "going for it." You could just as well argue no 11 million 4th line, just young speed and talent if they had more picks.  We just don't know what the situation would be like if the team had a different direction years ago. 

 

Also it's beyond a joke to say players wouldn't stay and building would be half empty if the team didn't try and compete.  Guys like you used to say that if the team lost as much as Edmonton, fans would vanish and all our prospects would be ruined.  The Canucks were the WORST team in the league despite Benning throwing draft picks and money away.  Fans stayed, and our prospects didn't get ruined.  

 

Now the narrative has changed to.. oh it wasn't the losing that would be bad, it'd be the trying to lose.  Guess what.  Coaches and players never try to lose, GMs do.  Players didn't leave because of the team losing.  They left because Benning is paying $6million to healthy scratches and 3rd rate defensemen!

The team would have been different.

We would have been a lottery team last year, and this year as well, 6 consecutive years out of any competitive ,meaningful games. Whoopee! (what effect does that have on young players, not even mentioning Horvat who most likely be demanding a trade?)

Premium UFA's are not attracted to organizations that don't compete (and certainly a team doing a 'slow cook rebuild is not attractive)

In fact, isnt that what the Oilers did, sat in the weeds, waiting for the next high pick to save the franchise?

Even if you do the rebuild the apparent 'correct' way, there are absolutely no garauntees..Are the Jets and the Leafs leaps and bounds ahead of the Canucks?

When last season ended, Canucks, Jets and Leafs were all around 80 points.

Do you think players really care that Louie Eriksson makes $6M, They're probably wondering who Louie's agent is ?. I dont buy for a second that players hold grudges  (or would leave the team.. lol ) over other another players salary. Petty.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Honky Cat

[Dazzle]

3 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

Yes same people were reporting that Linden quit because Benning wanted to win now while Linden wanted to rebuild.  The team went with Benning's plan, this is his mess.

Gillis left no prospects for Benning to work with, contrary to some posters overvaluing the remnant of players left behind. Who is to blame for that?

[the grinder]

1 hour ago, kanucks25 said:

I haven't moved any goalposts, that original post I made with the two points was from like over a week ago? I've been copy/pasting it since.

 

Again, you haven't comprehended what I posted, so really I don't know how to go forward from here.

 

We can agree to disagree on how significant Gaudette's contribution on the whole has been, same with Demko's contribution as a backup goalie last regular season.

 i think most people cant see your out right denial of  the facts ,  i cant believe  you actually think Demko  doesn't contribute to the team  that is beyond  laughable 

[kanucks25]

10 minutes ago, the grinder said:

i cant believe  you actually think Demko  doesn't contribute to the team

Never said this, not once.

 

This is why I'm questioning whether or not you're even reading or comprehending my posts.

[the grinder]

8 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Never said this, not once.

 

This is why I'm questioning whether or not you're even reading or comprehending my posts.

•  

 

"So name them? You can really only name the ones that are recent/still developing because Benning has nothing to show for the first 5 years of his drafting outside the top of the draft. And that's not a "carefully crafted goalpost", 5 years is the majority of his tenure."       isn't that what  you said  ????   or you going to deny that too

 

so that include demko wouldn't it?????   2 nd rounder  outside the top of the draft (check) , was drafted in that 5 year period(check) and he definitely contributes to the team (check)  ???   so you deny the facts and says he doesn't fit the criteria  or is that too hard for you to  comprehend  

 

[CanadianRugby]

2 hours ago, Honky Cat said:

The team would have been different.

We would have been a lottery team last year, and this year as well, 6 consecutive years out of any competitive ,meaningful games. Whoopee! (what effect does that have on young players, not even mentioning Horvat who most likely be demanding a trade?)

Premium UFA's are not attracted to organizations that don't compete (and certainly a team doing a 'slow cook rebuild is not attractive)

In fact, isnt that what the Oilers did, sat in the weeds, waiting for the next high pick to save the franchise?

Even if you do the rebuild the apparent 'correct' way, there are absolutely no garauntees..Are the Jets and the Leafs leaps and bounds ahead of the Canucks?

When last season ended, Canucks, Jets and Leafs were all around 80 points.

Do you think players really care that Louie Eriksson makes $6M, They're probably wondering who Louie's agent is ?. I dont buy for a second that players hold grudges  (or would leave the team.. lol ) over other another players salary. Petty.

Ah the argument that if it isn't guaranteed to work, you shouldn't do it.  Hard to have a discussion with that logic.

 

And no players don't care how much Louie makes.  But they can point at that scrub and say why should I take less, I'm a better player.  Though the main point is contracts like that is why we couldn't afford Toffoli, or any depth to help top players.  

[CanadianRugby]

2 hours ago, Dazzle said:

Gillis left no prospects for Benning to work with, contrary to some posters overvaluing the remnant of players left behind. Who is to blame for that?

Gillis was trying to win the cup not build a prospect pool.  Gillis had more president trophies than Benning has playoff appearances for the Canucks lol.  

 

Also if there were no good players that Gillis left over, how did Benning get a 100 point season his first year?  And if there were no good players, what kind of idiot goes at it with a win now mentality?

Edited February 22, 2021 by CanadianRugby

[aGENT]

36 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

Ah the argument that if it isn't guaranteed to work, you shouldn't do it.  Hard to have a discussion with that logic.

The same (and inverse) logic applies to your argument though.

[Dazzle]

38 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

Gillis was trying to win the cup not build a prospect pool.  Gillis had more president trophies than Benning has playoff appearances for the Canucks lol.  

 

Also if there were no good players that Gillis left over, how did Benning get a 100 point season his first year?  And if there were no good players, what kind of idiot goes at it with a win now mentality?

And what happened after that season? Everyone knows the sedins were on their way out, yet Gillis didn't leave a plan. As you've admitted, it was a win now mode. But it came at a huge cost. That cost is still trying to be paid off even now.

 

That is the legacy of Gillis.