tas Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Dats hockey said: Not to $&!# on your statement but we never scored powerplay goals against good teams last year but we piled them on against bad teams so you're saying good teams are better than bad teams for a reason? revelatory. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Dats hockey said: Not to $&!# on your statement but we never scored powerplay goals against good teams last year but we piled them on against bad teams is there some data/evidence of this? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 On 2/21/2021 at 7:55 PM, Dazzle said: And what happened after that season? Everyone knows the sedins were on their way out, yet Gillis didn't leave a plan. As you've admitted, it was a win now mode. But it came at a huge cost. That cost is still trying to be paid off even now. That is the legacy of Gillis. I think Gillis hinted at a plan when he moved Schneider for Horvat....I think at that point he was starting to realize that it may undermine his short term positioning somewhat, but it was important for the franchise to start dividing it's priorities and looking to some 'transition' assets. I'm not sure how well that went over - given the franchise took a markedly different direction - I still can't quite figure out what the Tortorella experiment was supposed to accomplish - but it's history regardless. The reality is that Horvat aside, the team probably could not have bottomed out in a worse way - requiring that virtually the entire lot's marketability/trade value needed to be 'rebuilt' before any hope of a rething could really proceed (assuming they wanted anything at all for handfuls of veteran players coming off career worst years under Tortorella). I'm not sure the entire responsibility for that can be put on Gillis' shoulders. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS4quality Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 (edited) Fire everyone Edited February 24, 2021 by DS4quality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 (edited) Edited February 24, 2021 by Provost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC2 Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 Don't see green being fired at this point but don't see him back neither. Don't think the owner wants to be paying two coaches salaries. At this point I'd rather the team bottom out and get a lotto pick because they just don't have the mental toughness to go far in the playoffs even if a miracle happened and they made it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dats hockey Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 4 hours ago, oldnews said: is there some data/evidence of this? Well I was curious so I went back to the record books and Turns outs 16/54 29.6% on non bubble team not bad 18/65 27.7% on bubble team that didn’t make the playoffs 20/111 18% on playoff teams big drop off. Also 10/13 against Nashville helped pad the middle one. Big drop offs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 4 minutes ago, Dats hockey said: Well I was curious so I went back to the record books and Turns outs 16/54 29.6% on non bubble team not bad 18/65 27.7% on bubble team that didn’t make the playoffs 29.6% vs playoff teams and 27.7% against non-playoff teams? Is that correct, or vice versa? Either way seems fairly consistently good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dats hockey Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, oldnews said: 29.6% vs playoff teams and 27.7% against non-playoff teams? Is that correct, or vice versa? Either way seems fairly consistently good. No, you’d have to add the bottom 2. Never consider teams that didn’t make it to the best of 7 playoff teams so the 8 teams that didn’t make it to the best of 7 are the middle ones. It falls to 21% Edited February 24, 2021 by Dats hockey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 32 minutes ago, JC2 said: Don't see green being fired at this point but don't see him back neither. Don't think the owner wants to be paying two coaches salaries. At this point I'd rather the team bottom out and get a lotto pick because they just don't have the mental toughness to go far in the playoffs even if a miracle happened and they made it in. even in a best case scenario - heading into the playoffs (if you make them) after a real grind of a season - this is not the most opportune circumstances for a group with 20 and 21 year old stars, while also integrating another couple key rookies into the mix this year. the bubble last year was a bit of an odd kind of opportunity - where those young guys got to rest and then hit the ground running for the playoffs (whereas normally they'd be flagging after a long grind of a season). this season is somewhat the reverse - very little prep, camp, preseason time and then little time to rest let alone practice between games. It's hard to see such a young group really catching wind - especially when their best player haven't necessarily been their best players. But whatever - I think people got ahead of themselves believing the team was ready to contend or that the yound core are at or near their prime. I think the elevated expectations are a bit premature. I think this season is more suited to veteran teams. Personally it doesn't matter that much to me - I wanted / agreed with the offseason decisions in general - would have probably even taken it a step further and moved another veteran winger or two if possible...and not necessarily spent that cap space. The Markstrom decision was a bit of a domino effect imo - it was either him or Demko (not much way around the e.d.) - and when you choose Demko / the future / you're essentially choosing the timeline trajectory of your other youth. I'm fine with decisions to leave a spot open for Hoglander / not re-sign Toffoli (assuming he would have signed here). I'd also be fine if they do something similar next season, not necessarily replacing Pearson - possibly just a Leivo type depth option that can move around the middle and bottom 6 - while leaving a spot for Podkolzin (or other) to compete for. Kole Lind is another guy - like Juolevi - who may be getting written off prematurely (as Juolevi largely was).... I'm not sure why there's so much panic tbh. The team has a very good young emerging core, easily a dozen good young players - and all of Eriksson, Roussel, Pearson, Benn, Sutter,, Beagle expiring this coming offseason or next....they have a lot of flexibility on the near horizon - and continue to produce the vital prospect push from within the franchise. I'm not dwelling on short term results - I'm looking at a team that looks very well positioned moving into the future. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC2 Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 13 minutes ago, oldnews said: even in a best case scenario - heading into the playoffs (if you make them) after a real grind of a season - this is not the most opportune circumstances for a group with 20 and 21 year old stars, while also integrating another couple key rookies into the mix this year. the bubble last year was a bit of an odd kind of opportunity - where those young guys got to rest and then hit the ground running for the playoffs (whereas normally they'd be flagging after a long grind of a season). this season is somewhat the reverse - very little prep, camp, preseason time and then little time to rest let alone practice between games. It's hard to see such a young group really catching wind - especially when their best player haven't necessarily been their best players. But whatever - I think people got ahead of themselves believing the team was ready to contend or that the yound core are at or near their prime. I think the elevated expectations are a bit premature. I think this season is more suited to veteran teams. Personally it doesn't matter that much to me - I wanted / agreed with the offseason decisions in general - would have probably even taken it a step further and moved another veteran winger or two if possible...and not necessarily spent that cap space. The Markstrom decision was a bit of a domino effect imo - it was either him or Demko (not much way around the e.d.) - and when you choose Demko / the future / you're essentially choosing the timeline trajectory of your other youth. I'm fine with decisions to leave a spot open for Hoglander / not re-sign Toffoli (assuming he would have signed here). I'd also be fine if they do something similar next season, not necessarily replacing Pearson - possibly just a Leivo type depth option that can move around the middle and bottom 6 - while leaving a spot for Podkolzin (or other) to compete for. Kole Lind is another guy - like Juolevi - who may be getting written off prematurely (as Juolevi largely was).... I'm not sure why there's so much panic tbh. The team has a very good young emerging core, easily a dozen good young players - and all of Eriksson, Roussel, Pearson, Benn, Sutter,, Beagle expiring this coming offseason or next....they have a lot of flexibility on the near horizon - and continue to produce the vital prospect push from within the franchise. I'm not dwelling on short term results - I'm looking at a team that looks very well positioned moving into the future. I'm not worried about the future because the core is solid like you said. Last season was definitely a case of overachieving due to it being a covid season and some stellar goaltending from Markstrom. Whoever ends up being the GM next year needs to shore up the bottom six and hopefully bring in a good defensive defenseman. I think Green is a good coach and will definitely remain in the league but something has to give and he's the easiest target. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 4 hours ago, oldnews said: is there some data/evidence of this? ya actually lol last year we were 20ppg on 62 attempts against teams out of the playoff.. but we are 10 of 19 against 2 teams lol detroit and LA.. so technically we were 10/43 against all the other non playoff teams.. then we look at playoff teams.. we were 37/174 overall but if u take out the 2 games against nashville where we were 10/13.. so technically we are 27/161 so ya our PP stats is padded by couple games where we ended up 20 out of 32 lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dats hockey Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 21 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: ya actually lol last year we were 20ppg on 62 attempts against teams out of the playoff.. but we are 10 of 19 against 2 teams lol detroit and LA.. so technically we were 10/43 against all the other non playoff teams.. then we look at playoff teams.. we were 37/174 overall but if u take out the 2 games against nashville where we were 10/13.. so technically we are 27/161 so ya our PP stats is padded by couple games where we ended up 20 out of 32 lol I honestly thought it was common knowledge that we struggled a lot on the pp last year despite what our overall rank was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 30 minutes ago, Dats hockey said: I honestly thought it was common knowledge that we struggled a lot on the pp last year despite what our overall rank was nah ppl were actually saying our PP were good lol i keep saying we padded against trash team and is terrible overall.. ppl keep saying look at our PP% how many PP goals we scored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 6 hours ago, JC2 said: I'm not worried about the future because the core is solid like you said. Last season was definitely a case of overachieving due to it being a covid season and some stellar goaltending from Markstrom. Whoever ends up being the GM next year needs to shore up the bottom six and hopefully bring in a good defensive defenseman. I think Green is a good coach and will definitely remain in the league but something has to give and he's the easiest target. Feel about the same. Roster isn't there yet and really that's on JB. It's also on JB that we have a core to be excited about. 12 million in wasted cap, if i had too guess, is below average by 4-6 million. At least we aren't Buffalo - Okposo and Skinner together - ouch. At this point it would take a miracle for TG to get even a one year extension...we'd need one heck of a winning streak for that to happen. Some of it is on him, some of it is on the players, and some of it is on JB. Fortunately he's learned from his mistakes, and didn't sign any of the UFAs. Schmidt is a Tanev upgrade - it's starting to show a little. That said it would have been nice to have both wouldn't it? He was offered 2 years which is a deal that would work for the team. Markstrom is now in the same position he was here, but with an older core .... he's saving their season, and it's not even enough really...and suffering from some body issues already. Tanev next ... TT, most overrated short term player i can think of since Sundins half season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 6 hours ago, Dats hockey said: I honestly thought it was common knowledge that we struggled a lot on the pp last year despite what our overall rank was We were streaky. Like a lot of other teams. Fans need to educate themselves and understand a PP goal one every four chances is actually pretty darn good. That said i understand the frustrations too - after a decade of watching the cycle, it seems instead now it's tic tack toe passing practice out there and nobody shoots the puck. Our PP isn't the worst of our issues at the moment. But for sure it could be a little better and more consistent. Personally i'd like to see what Hoglander could add to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 On 2/21/2021 at 6:06 PM, the grinder said: "So name them? You can really only name the ones that are recent/still developing because Benning has nothing to show for the first 5 years of his drafting outside the top of the draft. And that's not a "carefully crafted goalpost", 5 years is the majority of his tenure." isn't that what you said ???? or you going to deny that too so that include demko wouldn't it????? 2 nd rounder outside the top of the draft (check) , was drafted in that 5 year period(check) and he definitely contributes to the team (check) ??? so you deny the facts and says he doesn't fit the criteria or is that too hard for you to comprehend Demko didn't contribute until year 6, and that was as a backup goalie. Again, reading comprehension: I said name me a prospect selected outside the 1st round that significantly contributed to the team in the first 5 seasons, 6 if you exclude last year's playoffs. This season is the first regular season Demko is being counted on to be a key player, season 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 How ironic is it that the thing that's being used by the apologists as Benning's #1 excuse for this past off-season is probably the only thing that's keeping this from getting really ugly, perhaps even saving his job. The team would have been booed off the ice yesterday if there were fans in the building and if this continues, the "FIRE X" chants probably wouldn't be too far away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSVII Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: I said name me a prospect selected outside the 1st round that significantly contributed to the team in the first 5 seasons, 6 if you exclude last year's playoffs. This season is the first regular season Demko is being counted on to be a key player, season 7. Damn this is a sparse list. Gaudette (5th round) - but no significant contributions Tryamkin (3rd round) for a brief stint made an impact, then bolted to the KHL Hopefuls to come up soon: Rathbone, Kole Lind, Woo, And of course, Hoglander this year, but that is outside your time range. Edited February 24, 2021 by DSVII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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