What is your assessment of our coaches ?

[iceman64]

1 minute ago, lmm said:

that does not explaiin "Line Blender Greenie"

If something isn't working you try other things, is that difficult to process? 

[lmm]

1 minute ago, iceman64 said:

If something isn't working you try other things, is that difficult to process? 

ya they won their first game and blendered the second

 

we were losing for good portion of yesterday's game and by some miracle the blender does not come out

[iceman64]

2 minutes ago, lmm said:

ya they won their first game and blendered the second

 

we were losing for good portion of yesterday's game and by some miracle the blender does not come ou

That's because we've been playing a lot better.. beat the best team in the league (without Petey)  

[Convincing John]

Trying not to be disrespectful here but Whenever I see people complaining about coaching I immediately downgrade my expectations of what’s about to come out of their mouth. It’s the biggest cop out in sports. There are cases in which a coaching change is beneficial but I would say 75% of the time It’s nothing more than optics. It’s the way society in general is shaping out to be. It’s like nobody is accountable for anything. Always blaming the government or their parents for their disaster lives. Travis Green and staff aren’t doing anything completely unorthodox here. They’re playing 1 of the roughly 4 basic systems in all of the nhl. Stop blaming them for absolutely everything. If they have to “motivate” the Handful  of the elite hockey players in the world that made it all the way to the nhl then go hire Richard Simmons. What about Buffalo? How many coaches is it now? Is it really Ralph Kruger’s fault they suck? Same applies here. It makes me sick. 

[4petesake]

I agree with you to a point but in the same theme of “people should accept responsibility” you must keep in mind that this applies to coaches as well.

[Captain Canuck #12]

My only concern with the coaching staff is that I can't see any way Nolan Baumgartner has earned his role as an assistant coach & defensive coach in the NHL.

 

My only concern with Travis Green relates to his judgment in hiring (and retaining) Baumgartner as his assistant coach and defensive coach in the NHL.

[iceman64]

1 hour ago, Convincing John said:

Trying not to be disrespectful here but Whenever I see people complaining about coaching I immediately downgrade my expectations of what’s about to come out of their mouth. It’s the biggest cop out in sports. There are cases in which a coaching change is beneficial but I would say 75% of the time It’s nothing more than optics. It’s the way society in general is shaping out to be. It’s like nobody is accountable for anything. Always blaming the government or their parents for their disaster lives. Travis Green and staff aren’t doing anything completely unorthodox here. They’re playing 1 of the roughly 4 basic systems in all of the nhl. Stop blaming them for absolutely everything. If they have to “motivate” the Handful  of the elite hockey players in the world that made it all the way to the nhl then go hire Richard Simmons. What about Buffalo? How many coaches is it now? Is it really Ralph Kruger’s fault they suck? Same applies here. It makes me sick. 

Welcome to the CDC..  lmao!  It's always more of the same, when we win a cup the haters will still find something to whine about.. 

[Dazzle]

1 hour ago, Convincing John said:

Trying not to be disrespectful here but Whenever I see people complaining about coaching I immediately downgrade my expectations of what’s about to come out of their mouth. It’s the biggest cop out in sports. There are cases in which a coaching change is beneficial but I would say 75% of the time It’s nothing more than optics. It’s the way society in general is shaping out to be. It’s like nobody is accountable for anything. Always blaming the government or their parents for their disaster lives. Travis Green and staff aren’t doing anything completely unorthodox here. They’re playing 1 of the roughly 4 basic systems in all of the nhl. Stop blaming them for absolutely everything. If they have to “motivate” the Handful  of the elite hockey players in the world that made it all the way to the nhl then go hire Richard Simmons. What about Buffalo? How many coaches is it now? Is it really Ralph Kruger’s fault they suck? Same applies here. It makes me sick. 

They've also gone through a bunch of GMs too.

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

On 3/6/2021 at 6:36 AM, smithers joe said:

my only pet peeve is the players inability to pass and receive a pass, efficiently and safely. is that the players fault or the coaches fault. like when they brought manny in to work on face offs, i'ld like to see paul reinhart hired to teach these guys how to be more in control of the puck.

anyone that saw reinhart play, will know what i mean. paul was a magician with the puck. if this is the coaches fault, than get new ones. if it is the players inability, than move them. i hate watching the give aways, game after game. who's to blame? i don't know. i'ld like to know what reinhart thinks about that?

 

On 3/6/2021 at 8:41 AM, smithers joe said:

i think it comes down to playing strong positional hockey. when i coached minor hockey, we were a good, strong team but a small team from burns lake played such strong positional hockey the would beat us regularly. they would pass the puck to a spot and there was always a man there. other teams are doing it successfully against us, is it being taught but not working or are the players just left to do their thing.? improve on that and the rest of the game should follow. just my 2 cents. i've never managed, coached or played in the nhl, so mine is only a guess and opinion. not a solid to go on.

I think you’re hitting the nail on the head with these posts, Joe. The team’s struggles to make simple, clean, short passes, especially in their own zone, has been really troubling to watch. I don’t really know how to explain it, other than maybe the lack of practice time? I don’t think it’s a coaching issue, per se. I’ve seen a lot of sequences where the team has good structure, every man is in the right spot, but the execution has been atrocious, when it comes to just simple passing sequences, and moving from puck recovery to transition and breakout. And once the first bad pass happens, it just turns into a complete gong show.
 

But what I’ve been seeing doesn’t look like systems issues, or a badly coached team. It’s looked like execution problems. Of course, execution is part of the coach’s responsibility, but if you can’t get enough time to practice, how do you go about fixing it?

 

I think, in general, Green’s systems require a great deal of practice time to have the team properly executing and firing on all cylinders. The way he wants the team to play (up tempo, high pace, high pressure through three zones, etc) is pretty demanding and requires a certain level of performance, which hasn’t always been there this season. Of course, Green also has never really been given a roster with the full stable of horses he needs to really play the brand of hockey he’d like to, but I think in previous years, he seemed able to make do with the team he had, and get more out of the group than the sum of the roster’s parts. But he was also afforded enough practice time to work out any kinks, and drill down on the execution, and get the team playing the way they needed to play.

 

That doesn’t necessarily mean I give Green a pass on everything that’s gone wrong this season. Every team is in the same boat this year, and while I can maybe understand how the lack of practice time has contributed to the struggles, I also expect an NHL caliber coaching and training staff to find solutions. I don’t myself know what those solutions are necessarily, and I don’t get paid the big bucks to know these things, but they do get paid those big bucks, so they have to figure it out (and thankfully, it looks like maybe, just maybe, they are, finally).

 

On a side note, I think the team psyche looked pretty fragile, especially early on, and I think the mood in the room might have been an issue, with the departing players, loss of key leaders and stabilizing forces, and also some important friendships and mentorships, the particularly impacted the top end youngsters (Marky meant a lot to Petey, and similarly Tanev for Quinn, and also Stecher was one of the best friends of many of the young star players). This, coupled with the departure of Manny, who was clearly well liked and helped keep the mood up and all the guys loose and smiling (as well as him being a heck of a coach), just seemed to take some of the wind out of the team’s sails. I don’t think it was necessarily a critical issue on its own, but once the team started struggling, I think possibly it got a lot harder to dig themselves out, because of the guys just not having the same feel, on the bench and in the room, that they did last season and previously. Again, hopefully they’re moving past these issues, finally, but it did seem like the mood was an issue for quite a while there.

 

I do think the coaching staff could really benefit from adding another personality that might replace some of what they lost in Malhotra. A “glue guy” type who’s close enough to the players that he can be their friend and the one they share a laugh and a joke with, and kind of bridge the gap between players and coaching staff. But also someone bringing some good expertise, both in helping with preparation and execution, and in-game strategy and adjustments. Not sure who that guy is. But I think having a guy like that would have helped this year. I’m sure Manny would’ve helped a lot this season, if he’d stayed.

Edited March 8, 2021 by SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME

[Hairy Kneel]

Miller looks great at centre, stronger defensively than EP. But Green only comes across these revelations by accident.  Half of the season is done and we've been terrible defensively.  An astute-r coach would have tried that sooner.  Just like trying Jake on the pk, Jake's speed on breakaways would be worth a look.

Guy is too locked in to his line up decisions. 

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Hairy Kneel

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Miller looks great at centre, stronger defensively than EP. But Green only comes across these revelations by accident.  Half of the season is done and we've been terrible defensively.  An astute-r coach would have tried that sooner.  Just like trying Jake on the pk, Jake's speed on breakaways would be worth a look.

Guy is too locked in to his line up decisions. 

 

A page back lmm  was complaining about the "Green blender"  - moving personal around and in and out of the lineup etc... 
 

With two practices in 25 days...this team for sure took a hit with no pre-season etc.    Things have settled down the last 12 games surprise surprise.    That's coaching.   And the players becoming accustomed to the tweaks playing in this division (who last year with a roster that a lot of posters have complained we didn't try and keep - had a worse winning percentage then we do now)...

 

I don't know what the correct thing is - but do know that change can also be good.    Personally feel that JB and ownership backing both guys up,  that unless things go very badly in the second half that there is good odds this subject isn't going anywhere for sometime.   Also know that it doesn't matter who coaches this team that a certain element of fans feel they could do a better job from the couch - suggesting line combo's and wondering why certain guys don't get certain assignments.   AV "Protect the zero zero tie!"  lol.   

 

From an entertainment perspective - i'm not a fan of the five man box.   It's horribly frustrating to watch.   Is that a personal thing or is it a coaching thing or is it both?   But i do like the fact he lets them play (the rookies), isn't heavily reliant on the vets, rolls four lines given how even the 5 x 5 minutes are considering the top and bottom six, and let's the D pinch as often as they like.   Because it's entertaining too.   For whatever reason our bottom six is snake bitten - AR, AG and JV in particular,  Motte and Sutter are fine and Beagle gets a lot of chances but isn't really there to score points...

 

Lately Schmidt seems to be playing like we expected, same with Hamonic, and the D has been doing a much better job of getting out of our own zone.   So many screw ups cost us the first 15 games - that game we outplayed TO but lost by two goals scored against in 11 seconds to me is a line in the sand in a tale of two seasons.  TG for me at least, is a very good fit for a young team on the rise (he allows them to play and make mistakes....a lot of experienced coaches don't do that but rely heavily on their vets) - that said Demko, Hoglander and OJ even have done enough for any coach to recognize they belong - BB, EP and QHs have established themselves - so IF we make a change, after this season i'm pretty sure we won't have to worry about them.   Change is sometimes a good thing - and I don't see any reason not to hire a new staff if this team takes another nose dive.   Players i'm sure know his neck is on the line too...they've tightened right up and are in a little run at the moment (3 of 4, Demko 3-0)....  If we somehow come close or make the playoffs TG will  for sure have earned a new deal. 

Edited March 8, 2021 by IBatch

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

**** TSN and The Athletic for reminding me today that Ian Clark’s contract is synchronized with Green’s and the assistants, and will expire this season, if a new deal isn’t reached. 

 

I wanted to be blissfully unaware. I mean, I knew it, I suppose, but just wasn’t thinking about it.

 

Have to hope that Clark’s extension is just sitting in a drawer somewhere, and they’re waiting until decisions are made on the rest of the staff, before announcing Clark will be coming back on a multi year deal.

 

Because if Clark leaves, yikes. He’s literally top-3 on the planet at his job. We will not find a better replacement, and his continued work with our goalies will be crucial to the longterm success of this team (and any chance of him not coming back is just not something I want to think about).

[iceman64]

16 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

**** TSN and The Athletic for reminding me today that Ian Clark’s contract is synchronized with Green’s and the assistants, and will expire this season, if a new deal isn’t reached. 

 

I wanted to be blissfully unaware. I mean, I knew it, I suppose, but just wasn’t thinking about it.

 

Have to hope that Clark’s extension is just sitting in a drawer somewhere, and they’re waiting until decisions are made on the rest of the staff, before announcing Clark will be coming back on a multi year deal.

 

Because if Clark leaves, yikes. He’s literally top-3 on the planet at his job. We will not find a better replacement, and his continued work with our goalies will be crucial to the longterm success of this team (and any chance of him not coming back is just not something I want to think about).

This is covid and I wouldn't read $&!#e into that, I saw that article as well and just shook my head.. always remember that media is much like a accident lawyer listening to the news for crashes to take advantage of, I would not be concerned if I were you, until everything settles down that is. Most of what I read in that article was assumptive and so was the conclusion drawn. 

 IF that would have included some information from Ian himself which was clear and concise, it would have been worth reading but there wasn't, you can't take previous situations and apply to everything else in the future because situations change and details that applied back then may or may not apply today. Beware the cool-aid, isn't always what it seems to be.. 

(edit) p.s. the athletic and tsn...lmao! smh.. out of 100 articles I've read by them, I think maybe a handful I didn't laugh at.. a few were actually good but that's out of the norm for them.

Edited March 10, 2021 by iceman64

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

5 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

This is covid and I wouldn't read $&!#e into that, I saw that article as well and just shook my head.. always remember that media is much like a accident lawyer listening to the news for crashes to take advantage of, I would not be concerned if I were you, until everything settles down that is. Most of what I read in that article was assumptive and so was the conclusion drawn. 

 IF that would have included some information from Ian himself which was clear and concise, it would have been worth reading but there wasn't, you can't take previous situations and apply to everything else in the future because situations change and details that applied back then may or may not apply today. Beware the cool-aid, isn't always what it seems to be.. 

I think the only part that concerned me were the comments from Kevin Woodley, who knows Clark fairly well. He’s right in saying that, if the Canucks are making Clark wait, it’s quite likely he’ll just move on. Clark can pretty much write his own ticket and go wherever he wants in the NHL, so he’s not going to accept uncertainty over whether or not he has job security for next season. However, I think it’s pretty unlikely that the Canucks are keeping Clark out of the loop and making him sweat on whether or not he’s getting extended. More likely, they’ve already agreed on something (or have an informal understanding, at the very least), but are just waiting to announce Clark’s extension after decisions are made on the rest of the staff. It would be a huge distraction for the Canucks to announce that Clark has been re-signed, but there’s still no decision on the future of Green and the other assistants. 

[iceman64]

2 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

I think the only part that concerned me were the comments from Kevin Woodley, who knows Clark fairly well. He’s right in saying that, if the Canucks are making Clark wait, it’s quite likely he’ll just move on. Clark can pretty much write his own ticket and go wherever he wants in the NHL, so he’s not going to accept uncertainty over whether or not he has job security for next season. However, I think it’s pretty unlikely that the Canucks are keeping Clark out of the loop and making him sweat on whether or not he’s getting extended. More likely, they’ve already agreed on something (or have an informal understanding, at the very least), but are just waiting to announce Clark’s extension after decisions are made on the rest of the staff. It would be a huge distraction for the Canucks to announce that Clark has been re-signed, but there’s still no decision on the future of Green and the other assistants. 

I disagree on one point sid, he doesn't know Clark personally, he spoke to him so he said...

I do agree with the one thing he said but just the one thing, yes, Ian can write his own ticket for sure, I wholeheartedly agree with that but Ian has also mentioned he loves Vancouver but he has to know that because of covid, everything is up in the air and he understands that hockey is also a business. 

 These are different times and until (and if they do) come back to norm then things will move along forward faster 

 However one can't forget the human part either, yes lots of teams could use his service but like most people, you want to live where you WANT to live unless your hands are tied and you have to but Ian's case would fall into the want category, and if he loves Vancouver and wants to be here, unless he up to his ass in debt, he doesn't need to go elsewhere. man the guy could just open a goalie school here and local kids and others would line up to learn from him.

 Meh but anyway I'd hate to see him go but honestly I highly doubt that's going to happen since he's happy here, and JB won't let him walk unless Ian wants to for some unseen reason.

a further edit, why do I have such a hate on for the media? part of it is this, take Freidman for example, and this is pretty common, and I quote.. 

"recent chatter suggests" which is normally broken down into parts even though zero of it is proven of any worth at all because of simple conjecture with no proof or truth involved and THEN it hits the wire and some fans regurgitate as the truth and argue to their blue in the face.. the absolute stupidity of it just makes me laugh but then just wonder how on earth do people get paid to write this crap, and even if they write something based on some truth, they twist it and put their own slant on it and again which may or may not be based on the reality behind any given situation and then the fans grab it and it happens all over again.. I give some credence that their not all out to lunch but most are, I have read a few well written articles which keeps me going back BUT most of it is just clickbait..  

Edited March 10, 2021 by iceman64

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

1 hour ago, iceman64 said:

I disagree on one point sid, he doesn't know Clark personally

I think he does know Clark.
 

If memory serves, Woodley used to work for Clark as a writer for his goaltending publication, back in the day, so they do have at least a professional relationship. And I think Woodley has also describes himself as something of a Clark acolyte, and credits Clark for getting him his start in the business. Plus, the goaltending “expert” community is a fairly small world.

 

That’s not to say that they’re “besties” or anything, but I’d imagine Woodley probably has Clark’s number in his phone, and Ian would probably take his call.
 

That all said, Woodley was also clear in one of the interviews that he has not spoken directly to Clark about any specifics regarding the contract situation, and is just speculating, based on what he knows of Clark, personally, and how Clark has responded in his previous NHL coaching/consultancy gigs, when facing an expiring contract.

 

I agree with the rest of your post, though. There’s really nothing new in the “reporting” this week, since the coaching staff’s contractual situation is unchanged, and we’ve known the timeline since the last deals were signed. The recent reporting is just various media types trying to manufacture a crisis and create click bait, page views, and boost their radio/podcast listeners. Standard media tactics, and I don’t really like them any more than you do.

[oldnews]

On 3/7/2021 at 10:27 PM, Convincing John said:

Trying not to be disrespectful here but Whenever I see people complaining about coaching I immediately downgrade my expectations of what’s about to come out of their mouth. It’s the biggest cop out in sports. There are cases in which a coaching change is beneficial but I would say 75% of the time It’s nothing more than optics. It’s the way society in general is shaping out to be. It’s like nobody is accountable for anything. Always blaming the government or their parents for their disaster lives. Travis Green and staff aren’t doing anything completely unorthodox here. They’re playing 1 of the roughly 4 basic systems in all of the nhl. Stop blaming them for absolutely everything. If they have to “motivate” the Handful  of the elite hockey players in the world that made it all the way to the nhl then go hire Richard Simmons. What about Buffalo? How many coaches is it now? Is it really Ralph Kruger’s fault they suck? Same applies here. It makes me sick. 

"blame is just a lazy person's way of making sense of chaos".

 

I agree - whenever coaching is raised = lower your expectations where the discussion is concerned.

Particularly the one-liners about Green's 'system'.

There are a lot of systems involved in hockey - forechecking, neutral zone, dzone (zone,man, hybrids), entries, exits, penalty killing systems, powerplay....

Most people can't name one - and can't be bothered to teach themselves a thing about any of them.

So yeah - it's about as tedious and white noise a subject as there are on these boards.

And it's not simply Green - virtually every coach has been fundamentally misrepresented ad nauseum.

Ie - AV - was characterized by the absurd "Defend the 0-0 tie" meme.

 

AV coached a team that lead the league in scoring - gave up the fewest goals (only the dynasty Habs of way back have ever equalled that accomplishment) - and had both the best powerplay and penalty killing units in the NHL (disclaimer - in one of those categories the team finished 2nd - but I can't be bothered to revisit which one it was).  Regardless, the point remains the same - he was a world class systems and 'possession' coach - and to top it off - he was funny as hell - and highly likeable.

 

Anyhow - re-up Green -he's a beauty - and specifically - he's an outstanding player development coach imo - a critical strength to have at this stage of this team's transition.

Edited March 11, 2021 by oldnews

[CanadianRugby]

You can't blame the coaches when they're given a trash lineup.  Green was brought in to develop young talent and he's done just that.  It's not his fault we had 3 AHL level defensemen playing at one point.  

[lmm]

14 minutes ago, oldnews said:

"blame is just a lazy person's way of making sense of chaos".

 

I agree - whenever coaching is raised = lower your expectations where the discussion is concerned.

Particularly the one-liners about Green's 'system'.

There are a lot of systems involved in hockey - forechecking, neutral zone, dzone (zone,man, hybrids), entries, exits, penalty killing systems, powerplay....

Most people can't name one - and can't be bothered to teach themselves a thing about any of them.

So yeah - it's about as tedious and white noise a subject as there are on these boards.

And it's not simply Green - virtually every coach has been fundamentally misrepresented ad nauseum.

Ie - AV - was characterized by the absurd "Defend the 0-0 tie" meme.

 

AV coached a team that lead the league in scoring - gave up the fewest goals (only the dynasty Habs of way back have ever equalled that accomplishment) - and had both the best powerplay and penalty killing units in the NHL (disclaimer - in one of those categories the team finished 2nd - but I can't be bothered to revisit which one it was).  Regardless, the point remains the same - he was a world class systems and 'possession' coach - and to top it off - he was funny as hell - and highly likeable.

 

Anyhow - re-up Green -he's a beauty - and specifically - he's an outstanding player development coach imo - a critical strength to have at this stage of this team's transition.

I was with you until you brought up Green

what makes Green an outstanding player developement coach?

[oldnews]

4 minutes ago, lmm said:

I was with you until you brought up Green

what makes Green an outstanding player developement coach?

results.