[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks vs. Winnipeg Jets | March 24, 2021 | 7:30 p.m. PT | SNP

[kanucks25]

Just now, canuck73_3 said:

The fact that someone is even attempting to paint Stecher as a better option than Myers in anyway means that discussing hockey is a lost cause

Yet another strawman.

 

Also waiting for the response to the post right above yours / my last post before this one.

[canuck73_3]

3 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

6M for the below. End of story.

 

If he’s second on the team in ice time , how is he not being used in all situations, he Kills Penalties plays on PP, this is a classic case of using analytics to support a narrative. 
 

There is more to the game than JUST analytics and even at the time of the signing I noted Myers isn’t an analytics darling but still a quality player.

 

Also still waiting for an explanation on how Stecher is better than Myers yet a healthy scratch on the second worst team in the league. 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, MikeyD said:

To be fair I'd rather have Markstrom + Tanev over Schmidt and Holtby. Same cap hit. You can argue the longevity of the idea but at the end of the day Markstrom and Tanev did a lot for this team and were clearly glue pieces. 

 

If there was a way to sign them to deals you could trade for, their trade value far exceeds our players as well. 

It's not really Markstrom + Tanev over Schmidt and Holtby.  We signed Holtby as a backup to Demko not as a replacement to Markstrom.  If we had signed Markstrom then Demko would have been traded.  His value in the summer wasn't as high as it is now.  Hindsight is 20/20 but at the end of the day I'd rather have Demko + Schmidt than Markstrom + Tanev, which is what the long term plan would be.  Holtby may only be here for this year, he may get bought out in the summer.

[Devron]

A person comparing Stecher to Myers is a lost cause and I freaking love Stecher. Wish him all the best but It’s not even close 

 

[kanucks25]

1 minute ago, canuck73_3 said:

If he’s second on the team in ice time , how is he not being used in all situations, he Kills Penalties plays on PP, 

When did I say he's not being used in all situations? You're really good at makings up and just arguing with yourself lol.

 

He's not used as the shutdown guy vs the other team's top lines. Do you dispute this? Because if you watch the games you know Green sends out Edler - Schmidt vs top lines as much as possible.

 

4 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

this is a classic case of using analytics to support a narrative.

You say this like I'm spinning something, when really it's really quite simple:

 

I see bad play + bad stats = bad player

 

You see good play + bad stats = good player

 

So we can agree to disagree on the eye-test, but let's not pretend like I'm throwing out a hot take by saying a player who has been bad statistically is bad.

 

7 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

There is more to the game than JUST analytics

I never said otherwise.

 

7 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Also still waiting for an explanation on how Stecher is better than Myers yet a healthy scratch on the second worst team in the league

I already answered this:

 

2 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

I don't profess to know the inner workings of their organization when it comes to their plan for how they are going to play and deploy their D-men.

 

What I do know is that Stecher is better than Myers things like expected goals for, scoring chance for%, etc.

 

I've also seen both play quite a bit, as have you and everyone here.

 

IMO, from my eye-test, I haven't seen anything in Myers that suggests he's too much better than Stecher (from an overall impact POV), and especially not 3x cap-hit better.

 

Again, our eye-tests may see differently but the stats support one side over the other. I'll let you guess which one.

 

e/ You can also take a poll on Wings reddit or HF to see what they've thought of Stecher this year.

 

Same goes for Tanev and Flames fans.

 

 

[kanucks25]

3 minutes ago, Devron44 said:

A person comparing Stecher to Myers is a lost cause and I freaking love Stecher. Wish him all the best but It’s not even close 

 

Except that you can't really disprove the statement, so who really is the lost cause?

 

(impact/effectiveness, especially relative to respective cap hit, not play style)

 

This is pretty much all I'm seeing as "counterarguments" right now:

 

 

Edited March 28, 2021 by kanucks25

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, khay said:

And trade Demko?

 

I think JB made the right call on Marky vs Demko. Schmidt was a good acquisition, I'd do that trade all over again. I think JB should have found a way to keep Tanev by clearing some cap even if it meant losing an asset or sign a cheaper backup instead of signing Holtby.

 

The optimal choice was to go with Demko + Schmidt + Tanev (11.5 mil) vs Schmidt + Holtby (10.3 mil).

 

Signing Holtby made sense at the time since Demko has not established himself as #1 just yet, but in hindsight... we could've had a super deep defence pairings 

 

Edler-Myers

Schmidt-Hamonic

Hughes-Tanev

OJ-Benn

 

 

Yes hindsight is 20/20.  If Benning could have predicted the future and knew that Demko would carry forward his playoff performances into this season then he probably doesn't sign a veteran like Holtby.  Instead he probably signs a cheap vet to a $1.5 million dollar deal, which would have freed up $2.8 million.  That would have been enough to get Toffoli done.  I doubt he still keeps Tanev though, the injury history would have prevented that and he signed Hamonic on a cheap one year deal to basically replace him.  Hamonic unfortunately started off slow and then got injured, which screwed up our first month pf the season where we were playing more games than anyone.  He's now rounding back into form and is a solid acquisition.

 

At the end of the day, we played too many games at the start of a season where there was no training camp to get the new guys in tune with the team.  And Green and his coaching staff aren't really helping things out either.  Our team is better than our record shows.  Injuries to all of our centres hasn't helped either.

[khay]

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Yes hindsight is 20/20.  If Benning could have predicted the future and knew that Demko would carry forward his playoff performances into this season then he probably doesn't sign a veteran like Holtby.  Instead he probably signs a cheap vet to a $1.5 million dollar deal, which would have freed up $2.8 million.  That would have been enough to get Toffoli done.  I doubt he still keeps Tanev though, the injury history would have prevented that and he signed Hamonic on a cheap one year deal to basically replace him.  Hamonic unfortunately started off slow and then got injured, which screwed up our first month pf the season where we were playing more games than anyone.  He's now rounding back into form and is a solid acquisition.

 

At the end of the day, we played too many games at the start of a season where there was no training camp to get the new guys in tune with the team.  And Green and his coaching staff aren't really helping things out either.  Our team is better than our record shows.  Injuries to all of our centres hasn't helped either.

Agree. Given Hamonic signed, if it comes down to Tanev vs Toffoli, I'd go with Toffoli.

 

Just taking him away from Montreal would have given us maybe 4 more points and Montreal 4 less points.

 

[Cluminati*]

Laffs come from behind to steal a point from the oilers in OT. Go laffs! 

[Devron]

15 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Except that you can't really disprove the statement, so who really is the lost cause?

 

(impact/effectiveness, especially relative to respective cap hit, not play style)

 

This is pretty much all I'm seeing as "counterarguments" right now:

There’s nothing to argue. Every GM in the league would rather have Myers then Stecher. There’s a reason why Stecher wasn’t qualified. Heart of a lion but he’s a bottom 6 fringe NHLer

[canuck73_3]

20 minutes ago, Devron44 said:

There’s nothing to argue. Every GM in the league would rather have Myers then Stecher. There’s a reason why Stecher wasn’t qualified. Heart of a lion but he’s a bottom 6 fringe NHLer

No sane GM would even consider Stecher over Myers. The hate Myers gets is far from warranted. And no point arguing with the second best goalpost mover on CDC 

[WHL rocks]

CAR is the best team in the league. Beat Tampa Bay today and own the best win % in the entire NHL now.

 

We are 8th worst in the entire NHL.

 

Who would have thought this before the season started. 

[WHL rocks]

35 minutes ago, Cluminati* said:

Laffs come from behind to steal a point from the oilers in OT. Go laffs! 

Ya was watching that back and forth with UFC Pre Lims. 

 

Oilers were up 3 - 1 and looked to have it wrapped up but Leafs came back and won in OT

[Devron]

1 minute ago, WHL rocks said:

CAR is the best team in the league. Beat Tampa Bay today and own the best win % in the entire NHL now.

 

We are 8th worst in the entire NHL.

 

Who would have thought this before the season started. 

Not I but was somewhat cautious of the potential step back. I have to say my expectations will be higher next year though and you know what we are still chasing Montreal. They could in theory lose a few and we could win a few and well ya never know.

[garthsbutcher]

59 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

When did I say he's not being used in all situations? You're really good at makings up and just arguing with yourself lol.

 

He's not used as the shutdown guy vs the other team's top lines. Do you dispute this? Because if you watch the games you know Green sends out Edler - Schmidt vs top lines as much as possible.

 

You say this like I'm spinning something, when really it's really quite simple:

 

I see bad play + bad stats = bad player

 

You see good play + bad stats = good player

 

So we can agree to disagree on the eye-test, but let's not pretend like I'm throwing out a hot take by saying a player who has been bad statistically is bad.

 

I never said otherwise.

 

I already answered this:

 

 

 

I’ll take any of our 7 d over little Helen of Troy any day 

[WHL rocks]

7 minutes ago, Devron44 said:

Not I but was somewhat cautious of the potential step back. I have to say my expectations will be higher next year though and you know what we are still chasing Montreal. They could in theory lose a few and we could win a few and well ya never know.

Ya I had them taking a step back and most likely miss the playoffs. But we look like we're gonna be bottom 5 team once the season is finished. Some vets will get traded . Kids will get ice time. We'll lose more than our share to close out the season..

 

No way I thought CAR would be the best team in NHL with 60% of the season behind us. I would have thought TBL COL WSH Vegas to be at or near the top as they are, but not CAR 

 

 

[Devron]

1 minute ago, WHL rocks said:

Ya I had them taking a step back and most likely miss the playoffs. But we look like we're gonna be bottom 5 team once the season is finished. Some vets will get traded . Kids will get ice time. We'll lose more than our share to close out the season..

 

No way I thought CAR would be the best team in NHL with 60% of the season behind us. I would have thought TBL COL WSH Vegas to be at or near the top as they are, but not CAR 

 

 

Yeah sounds like Petey not back anytime soon. Oh well. Like I said you never know but that’s probably a more realistic point of view. 
Should be interesting.

 

Carolina seems like a well coached team. I think ol’ Rod is without a contract extension as well I heard somewhere. Interesting indeed 

 

[WHL rocks]

3 minutes ago, Devron44 said:

Yeah sounds like Petey not back anytime soon. Oh well. Like I said you never know but that’s probably a more realistic point of view. 
Should be interesting.

 

Carolina seems like a well coached team. I think ol’ Rod is without a contract extension as well I heard somewhere. Interesting indeed 

 

Yeah Canucks have a 1.1% chance of making playoffs. MTL has 97.3% chance. 

 

We're not catching them. 

http://www.sportsclubstats.com

[Devron]

8 minutes ago, WHL rocks said:

Yeah Canucks have a 1.1% chance of making playoffs. MTL has 97.3% chance. 

 

We're not catching them. 

http://www.sportsclubstats.com

I know the odds but they can change quite drastically over the next 10 games like I said Montreal would have to lose a few and the Canucks win a few. I don’t pack it in. I watch to win but I respect the fact it’s a bit of a dream.

[CptCanuck16]

1 hour ago, khay said:

Agree. Given Hamonic signed, if it comes down to Tanev vs Toffoli, I'd go with Toffoli.

 

Just taking him away from Montreal would have given us maybe 4 more points and Montreal 4 less points.

 

I'm sure Benning tried moving anyone he could to keep Toffoli and in the end it didn't work out. Its really easy to play armchair GM with the clarity of hindsight on your side but in the real world things are a little more complex.

Edited March 28, 2021 by CptCanuck16