Canucks fans fly #FireBenning banner over Vancouver

[Josepho]

7 hours ago, Dazzle said:

But that's the thing. It seems NO AMOUNT OF SUCCESS will EVER be enough to sway people who are dead set on firing Benning. People will make hypocritical arguments about what moves he should've made/didn't make. For example, people whining about Benning not signing Toffoli to a long term contract, DESPITE him being pushed to 30+. YET the same people are whining about how Pearson's contract would put him 30+. It's this incoherent nonsense that has to be called out.

 

At some point, there HAS to be a reflection on what was done right or done wrong. Unfortunately, some people are only interested in pushing an agenda, and would rather ignore evidence that doesn't support their perspective.

 

I've been very loud about questioning Green, but it's hard to argue that his coaching wasn't a factor in last year's playoffs. I just hope that he improves on his past experiences and he can be a better coach because of it.

Some people on this board (and on social media), for crying out loud, thinks Gillis was a better GM.

Think about that for a second. Gillis during his winning years with almost zero drafting/developing of players, part of which is this huge hole that the Canucks have yet to recover from.

Anything that Benning did do for drafting would get understated (oh, that was his scouts doing his work, etc). It's hilarious that people would talk about Benning profited from having high first round picks. Hoglander, Lind, Gadjovich, Woo, Jasek.... all of these are strong prospects that were NEVER on a team under Gillis. I wonder why.

You are completely ignoring the trajectory of these players at the time of their signings.

 

Pearson's production has nosedived in the last year, Toffoli's hasn't -- that's why there's a difference. 

[cdgraham]

4 hours ago, D-Money said:

Wait...what?

 

What success? A few weeks in the bubble? 2 wins against Toronto? There has been almost no success at all...

There wasnt going to be for a long time no matter who was in charge when Benning took over. We were on a downward spiral with no young players and aging vets after 2012-13. 

Loom at rebuilds like buffalo, toronto for the longest time, Edmonton, etc and we are actually very fortunate to have had even the success you just mentioned after the yes, short time, since Benning took over. We beat the defending champs last year and were a game away from the conference finals, and have had literally, I repeat, literally, an unparalleled run of success of young talent entering the league in the history of the NHL. 

But ya Bennings sucks lmfao.

People are absolutely clueless. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by cdgraham

[smithers joe]

the last i heard was that a team of players and coaches went through a bad bout of covid. they have come back and are trying so hard to win games for us. surely the sowers of discord can wait till the season is over to whine about benning or their pet peeves.if benning is let go, it won't be till season's end. lets enjoy this team right now.

[Gurn]

28 minutes ago, Josepho said:

You are completely ignoring the trajectory of these players at the time of their signings.

 

Pearson's production has nosedived in the last year, Toffoli's hasn't -- that's why there's a difference. 

And you are completely ignoring the trajectory of the last 3 games where Pearson has been kick Toffoli's butt in scoring.

 

Sample size for the win.

[Tom Sestito]

6 minutes ago, smithers joe said:

the last i heard was that a team of players and coaches went through a bad bout of covid. they have come back and are trying so hard to win games for us. surely the sowers of discord can wait till the season is over to whine about benning or their pet peeves.if benning is let go, it won't be till season's end. lets enjoy this team right now.

There would have been criticism regardless of timing. This isn’t a shot at the players commendable performances against all odds - this is a large section of the fanbase who want to win a cup and not pom pom for Benning. 

 

“Could have waited until the offseason to see what he does this year”

 

”Negative energy before the season is about to start”

 

”Season isn’t even close to being done let’s wait and see how it goes”

 

”We’ve had injuries and this is toxic behavior towards the team. This could have waited until after the season”

 

And back through the loop.

 

 

[Josepho]

1 minute ago, gurn said:

And you are completely ignoring the trajectory of the last 3 games where Pearson has been kick Toffoli's butt in scoring.

 

Sample size for the win.

I'm going to take the sample size of ~70 games over the sample size of 3, personally.

[Tom Sestito]

Just now, gurn said:

And you are completely ignoring the trajectory of the last 3 games where Pearson has been kick Toffoli's butt in scoring.

 

Sample size for the win.

Should google the definition of a false equivalence. 

[JM_]

11 minutes ago, smithers joe said:

the last i heard was that a team of players and coaches went through a bad bout of covid. they have come back and are trying so hard to win games for us. surely the sowers of discord can wait till the season is over to whine about benning or their pet peeves.if benning is let go, it won't be till season's end. lets enjoy this team right now.

the same people that booked the plane think that Gillis and Gillman will be re-hired. 

[bree2]

this is complete garbage. you cannot call these idiots Canuck fans. they pretend to be fans but they are not. just some dumb twitter fans that think they are being funny, so please don't call them FANS!!!

[D-Money]

7 minutes ago, cdgraham said:

There wasnt going to be for a long time no matter who was in charge when Benning took over. We were on a downward spiral with no young players and aging vets after 2012-13. 

Loom at rebuilds like buffalo, toronto for the longest time, Edmonton, etc and we are actually very fortunate to have had even the success you just mentioned after the yes, short time, since Benning took over. We beat the defending champs last year and were a game away from the conference finals, and have had literally, I repeat, literally, an unparalleled run of success of young talent entering the league in the history of the NHL. 

But ya Bennings sucks lmfao.

People are absolutely clueless. 

The problem isn’t that there hasn’t been much success. The problem is that many of us don’t think those years of losing were used to their full advantage. So now when the young players that Benning has accumulated are ready to take the next step, there are multiple obstacles in their way. Obstacles created by Benning himself, that were totally unnecessary. 

 

But yeah, keep enjoying brief glimpses of actual success, while lyfao.

[IBatch]

44 minutes ago, Josepho said:

You are completely ignoring the trajectory of these players at the time of their signings.

 

Pearson's production has nosedived in the last year, Toffoli's hasn't -- that's why there's a difference. 

Lol.  Pearson since his signing - plus three the first game and two goals the following one.    He's not "nose diving", he's playing like he has since he got here, he's this teams version of Geoff Courtnall/Adams  lite - a streaky player.   Or Samuelson or Higgins if you weren't around back then.    I didn't like the signing because i didn't think we had the cap space.   As far as the actual contract goes it's just fine.   For sure Pearson is 2/3 of what TT is, and one less year.    Zero issue with the actual terms and money.    Only fans with zero insight into what these guys cost would say that.    And look at our team.   We have JT Miller (who if we were good enough would be our 3C),  and after Pearson Motte.   Who is in the pipe that will replace him?   Lind?  lol no he's a RW.  Podz?  No he's a RW potential C.   Sooo...what would a smart GM do?   He'd re-sign him to a fair contract (which it is) and make sure it's a tradeable contract (which it is) and that he can be exposed in the ED if something interesting comes along (which it is) to play in our middle six waiting for cap space to open up and better opportunities.   This team no longer wants to tank.   Those days are over.   Suggest you spend some time and look at all the LWs, and actually learn a few things about them too.    Pearson owes his career to TG, and rewards the team with his play night in night out, whether he's on the scoresheet or not.   

 

Edit:  On some fans love affair with TT.   It's got to stop already.   He was barely here.    Watching ALL those games he was often invisible except for the exact right time, his goals were smart garbage goals for the most part.    For sure there valuable, but away from the puck meh at best.  JV actually works hard and does more work along the boards.   Aside from one garbage goal against Vegas he was virtually hiding invisible - didn't notice any of this "great two-way play" and certainly didn't notice any "size and toughness ".    Having a career year or close to one right now.    Doubt its sustainable.   And doubt this will be brought up other then the occasional "i told you so" in two or three years either. 

 

One more tiny detail.   Who would you rather have right now.   Hogs on his 3 year ELC, or TT at 4.5 x 4?  Be honest.   Not to mention Podz...who's a Right Winger. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by IBatch

[cdgraham]

3 minutes ago, D-Money said:

The problem isn’t that there hasn’t been much success. The problem is that many of us don’t think those years of losing were used to their full advantage. So now when the young players that Benning has accumulated are ready to take the next step, there are multiple obstacles in their way. Obstacles created by Benning himself, that were totally unnecessary. 

 

But yeah, keep enjoying brief glimpses of actual success, while lyfao.

Lol, just ignore the whole "literally unparalleled run of success from young talent entering the league" part. What was that you said about the years of losing not being taken full advantage of? 

 

Also there are not multiple obstacles in the team's way, lots of players will be off the books very soon and we will have plenty of cap space, with lots of cheap good young players coming in too. 

What are these obstacles? Please elaborate 

[Tom Sestito]

23 minutes ago, bree2 said:

this is complete garbage. you cannot call these idiots Canuck fans. they pretend to be fans but they are not. just some dumb twitter fans that think they are being funny, so please don't call them FANS!!!

If they aren’t fans, why would they have paid money to change course of the team they support?

 

They want to win a cup just like every other fan. Fan elitism is weird. 

[Dazzle]

51 minutes ago, Josepho said:

You are completely ignoring the trajectory of these players at the time of their signings.

 

Pearson's production has nosedived in the last year, Toffoli's hasn't -- that's why there's a difference. 

With hindsight, you can make this statement, sure.

 

What's to say that Eriksson would've scored more with his contract? What about Ryan Johansen? Jeff Skinner? 

 

Eriksson wasn't really declining when that contract was signed. Johansen too.

 

 

[Josepho]

1 minute ago, Dazzle said:

With hindsight, you can make this statement, sure.

 

What's to say that Eriksson would've scored more with his contract? What about Ryan Johansen? Jeff Skinner? 

 

Eriksson wasn't really declining when that contract was signed. Johansen too.

 

 

Sorry, I was comparing Pearson/Toffoli's production at the time of their contracts.  

 

 

 

[Josepho]

38 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Lol.  Pearson since his signing - plus three the first game and two goals the following one.    He's not "nose diving", he's playing like he has since he got here, he's this teams version of Geoff Courtnall/Adams  lite - a streaky player.   Or Samuelson or Higgins if you weren't around back then.    I didn't like the signing because i didn't think we had the cap space.   As far as the actual contract goes it's just fine.   For sure Pearson is 2/3 of what TT is, and one less year.    Zero issue with the actual terms and money.    Only fans with zero insight into what these guys cost would say that.    And look at our team.   We have JT Miller (who if we were good enough would be our 3C),  and after Pearson Motte.   Who is in the pipe that will replace him?   Lind?  lol no he's a RW.  Podz?  No he's a RW potential C.   Sooo...what would a smart GM do?   He'd re-sign him to a fair contract (which it is) and make sure it's a tradeable contract (which it is) and that he can be exposed in the ED if something interesting comes along (which it is) to play in our middle six waiting for cap space to open up and better opportunities.   This team no longer wants to tank.   Those days are over.   Suggest you spend some time and look at all the LWs, and actually learn a few things about them too.    Pearson owes his career to TG, and rewards the team with his play night in night out, whether he's on the scoresheet or not.   

 

Edit:  On some fans love affair with TT.   It's got to stop already.   He was barely here.    Watching ALL those games he was often invisible except for the exact right time, his goals were smart garbage goals for the most part.    For sure there valuable, but away from the puck meh at best.  JV actually works hard and does more work along the boards.   Aside from one garbage goal against Vegas he was virtually hiding invisible - didn't notice any of this "great two-way play" and certainly didn't notice any "size and toughness ".    Having a career year or close to one right now.    Doubt its sustainable.   And doubt this will be brought up other then the occasional "i told you so" in two or three years either. 

 

One more tiny detail.   Who would you rather have right now.   Hogs on his 3 year ELC, or TT at 4.5 x 4?  Be honest.   Not to mention Podz...who's a Right Winger. 

If he's "streaky", the bad streaks sure have been outnumbering the good streaks, dating back to the end of last regular season and in the playoffs last year. 

 

If the team has no one good enough to replace him in your eyes, that's on Benning. But I disagree anyways, I don't see why we can't try Podz on the LW (or put him at RW and move Hoglander to LW) of that line. Or we can just bring someone in through free agency. Given the COVID market, there WILL be comparable players to Pearson available for cheaper in UFA.

 

I'd rather take the laziest player in the world who is generating results over someone who looks like they're trying hard but isn't accomplishing anything. If a player who has constantly produced well is "invisible" to you, I feel like it says more about your evaluation of hockey than it does the player. Focus on the results, not how they're achieved.

 

I would rather have both Hoglander and Toffoli on the team. And on a team where the cap is/was managed well, that'd be reality.

 

Hoglander is obviously younger and cheaper, but Toffoli is easily a better player at the moment.

Edited April 22, 2021 by Josepho

[IBatch]

9 minutes ago, Josepho said:

If he's "streaky", the bad streaks sure have been outnumbering the good streaks, dating back to the end of last regular season and in the playoffs last year. 

 

If the team has no one good enough to replace him in your eyes, that's on Benning. But I disagree anyways, I don't see why we can't try Podz on the LW (or put him at RW and move Hoglander to LW) of that line. Or we can just bring someone in through free agency. Given the COVID market, there WILL be comparable players to Pearson available for cheaper in UFA.

 

I'd rather take the laziest player in the world who is generating results over someone who looks like they're trying hard but isn't accomplishing anything. If a player who has constantly produced well is "invisible" to you, I feel like it says more about your evaluation of hockey than it does the player. Focus on the results, not how they're achieved.

 

I would rather have both Hoglander and Toffoli on the team. And on a team where the cap is/was managed well, that'd be reality.

 

Hoglander is obviously younger and cheaper, but Toffoli is easily a better player at the moment.

Yes it would be nice to have both, but cap is cap and the price to retain TT - again a RW which we have a glut of, would have cost Hoglander his spot, and we'd of lost a vet plus an asset to keep him.    Full picture is a lot harder  then just saying we should have kept him simply because it would improve the team. 

 

Edit:  Heck it would have been nice to keep Markstrom and Tanev and Leivo and Stecher plus add Hamonic, Schmidt and Holtby as the third stringer.    This isn't NHL playstation. 

 

On changing their natural position.   That's also not how the real hockey world works.   Sure it happens on occasion, with highly skilled players like EP, Federov moving to defense, or Byfuglien and Burns.   But asking Hogs or TT to do it?   Hmm.  Ok.  JB knows more about hockey then virtually anyone of us on this site.   Again why the love affair over a guy who played like 20ish games?  Might as well go back and do it with Sean Burke or Geoff Sanderson lol. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by IBatch

[alt kilgore]

24 minutes ago, Josepho said:

You are completely ignoring the trajectory of these players at the time of their signings.

 

Pearson's production has nosedived in the last year, Toffoli's hasn't -- that's why there's a difference. 

 

Its not even a terrible signing IMO.   Pearson is a useful forward. But its another example of a cut of a thousand knives.   ie..In a year when there is a glut coming for players that could do the same job, at a younger age, and way more cap friendly terms. And Pearson is a player that most pundits said no one was asking about, and he could have been had for 2.5. On a good team, Tanner would be on the third line.  And when we get there hopefully, we may be using 3.5 of cap, for another bottom six position.   It all adds up these extra millions and term years that Jim caves to.  And its an accumulation of years of that BS.  What happens this summer when Tryamkin asks for 2.5, and Jim says he can't afford more than 1.5, take it or leave it. And we lose another promising, and IMO important, prospect...over that unnecessary million given away?

 

Its when you add up all his mistakes the big ones like LE, and include all the smaller ones, that extra year here, or that extra million on a declining vet there, the lack of communication, as told by ex-players, the haphazard "day to day" brand of management, instead of thinking ahead. ie. Make up his mind earlier on Demko vs Markstrom and make a hard decision, same with Tanev, and move on to the next contract... Tofolli...Stecher (who would be third D in points on the Canucks, was tied with Schmidt but Nate barely pulled ahead with 12 over Stech's 11 last game). 

 

Just one example of IMO below average GM, when you weigh everything.  He's not terrible, its just that I think Canucks fans deserve better.  Its funny to take seriously his status with some here when this GM's only point of praise seems to be almost exclusively for his amateur drafting, even though a GM's main focus would be pro scouting, trades, and contracts, and travelling with the team. Of course Jim is aware of potential prospects and has accumulated knowledge of a lot of them, but there are hundreds, playing in different leagues and universities,  most of that work is done by the amateur scouting dept.  But sure, he knew enough to agree with them. Good job there Jim.

 

I trust JB at this point, about as much as I trust the Canucks now with a 1 goal lead going into the third.  Always optimistic and hopeful, but biting my nails based on game history this season.  A team can lose a game through one bad mistake...LE scoring into his own net...or an accumulation of small "little things" mistakes.  I hope some things fall into Jim's lap, and he has some luck (Beagle, or LE retires would help), and he makes good decisions with who and how he will rebuild the final pieces to take us to the next level.  JB is still family, if we are all Canucks, and you can't pick your family members.  Go Jim Go!

 

 

 

[Laoag]

kind of a shallow thing to do... I don't care for Benning but reality is this:

Letting Travis Green and the coaching staff walk will put us further back than firing Benning will push us ahead.

If there is any outrage from the Fan base, if there is any unified message we should be flying from airplanes, it should be that we want Travis Green, Ian Clark and the Coaching staff back.

Sign them now!

[bree2]

33 minutes ago, Tom Sestito said:

If they aren’t fans, why would they have paid money to change course of the team they support?

 

They want to win a cup just like every other fan. Fan elitism is weird. 

real fans don't do something so stupid like that!!! but it is not about Benning. it doesn't matter if we got a new coach or GM  nothing would change with these people