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With the Leafs loss to the Habs, guys like Rick Dhaliwal,Thomas Drance, JD Burke, 650 Sportsnet, and HF Canucks have received VERY huge blows

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On 5/31/2021 at 7:47 PM, Patel Bure said:

With the Leafs loss to the Habs, guys like Sat Shah, Thomas Drance, JD Burke, 650 Sportsnet, and HF Canucks have received VERY huge blows

 

It wasn’t supposed to be this way.  
 

“We” were told by “the pundits” that the Leafs, under “Shanaplan” were rebuilding the correct way and that the Canucks way was absurd.

 

”We” were told by “the pundits” that the Leafs model was a model of excellence and that it would only be a matter of time before the Leafs took the torch from the Pens, Hawks, and Kings.

 

”We” were told by “the pundits” that the Leafs signing Tavares was a move that would place them closer to the cup, and that signing Tavares to an 11 million dollar cap hit wouldn’t have unforeseen negative circumstances......because the cap always goes up!  Just like real estate and the stock market!  “How is signing an elite franchise center a bad move, lol, omg” was the response.  Although a small portion of Canuck fans tried to warn “the pundits” that signing high ticket superstar  UFA’s to premium contracts BEFORE re-upping your RFA core to cap friendly bridge deals would discourage long term “buy in” (ie taking less money to serve the greater good), and instead, would foster a “he got paid and so I want to get paid too!” mindset, “the pundits” laughed and instead, pointed to the fact that the Canucks had terrible contracts of their own (Sutter, Eriksson, Baertschi, Ferland, Roussel, Beagle, etc.).   Were the pundits right?........yes, but only half right.   The other half of the equation, is that

 

1) Despite the “horridity” of these contracts, the highest paid player on our team is still 6 million dollars.....meaning that an internal cap and/or “buy in” (ie taking less money and term short term to “serve the greater good”) was still a possibility.

 

2) Almost all of our bad/transitional contracts that aided us through the rebuild, would be off the books before the start of the 22-23 season......which would be the exact time when our window of elitehood would begin, with our core players and supporting players at very good cap hits (Boeser still a cost controlled asset + Horvat/Miller/Schmidt/Demko all making less than 6 million + Podz/Hog on ELC’s, etc.).

 

“We” were laughed at by ”The pundits when they claimed that burning a year off of Hughes and Boeser’s ELC’s for such a small amount of games made absolutely no sense, because according to them, “all cup winning teams have their best players on ELC’s” (in actuality, Pittsburgh 2009 was really the last team to do this......all other cups winning teams since then had their top players on relatively cap friendly deals and/or low AAV% relative to the teams’ salary cap + a stronger investment in depth players).

 

”We” were told by “the pundits” that the Leafs actually had built their team correctly and that the only reason why they didn’t have Better results, was because they were playing in the toughest division in the league.   Safe to say that this wasn’t the case this year eh?
 

“We” were told by “the pundits” that the Canucks haven’t had a plan since 2014, and that we are now into year 7 of our rebuild.  “The pundits” neglected to mention that the Canucks made the playoffs during Benning’s first year (thanks to bringing in Ryan Miller, Vrbata, and Bonino), missed the playoffs for 4 seasons after that, and then made the 2nd round in 2020, and have now positioned themselves for a very BIG 2022-2023.    
 

It really does make you wonder though eh?  If the Canucks are supposedly into year 7 of their rebuild “without a plan,” then what does that make Toronto?  Year 17?   Because the aforementioned “pundits” can brag all they want about Toronto’s deep team, but they still haven’t won a round since 2004!   Meanwhile, teams like Edmonton, Calgary, and Vancouver have all made the 2nd round Atleast once.  
 

While Edmonton and Calgary have yet to build on their 2nd round appearances, the jury is still out on Vancouver.  Despite this however, the important point I want to illuminate here is that “the pundits” shouldn’t be celebrating the fact that the Canucks missed the playoffs this year, but rather, recognize the simple truth that progression is almost never  a linear thing.   How did Philadelphia and Dallas do this year by the way?    
 

Remember a few years back when Jason Botchford (RIP) and Trevor Linden praised “The Winnipeg model?”  Winnipeg also serves as proof that progression isn’t linear.  After making the 3rd round in 2018, they lost in the first round a year later and then technically missed the playoffs last season.  
 

So the main points I’m making is this:

 

1) Anyone who praised “Shanaplan” should take this time to apologize for the error of their ways (We forgive you).

 

2) Given all of the other elite teams in the league, and how their progression hasn’t always been linear, fans and pundits should realize that Benning’s rebuild since 2014 is on par with most of the other teams that had to rebuild.  While progression hasn’t always been linear, the moving average has trended upwards.  All rebuilding teams have to eat turds for approximately 6-9 years and the Canucks are of no exception.

 

Sincerely.

 

Patel Bure.

I read that entire post in Matt Sekeres voice. And that is the Welcome Matt today brought to you by our friends down at Combined Painting. 

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After a re-read in ANY voice(thanks for that amusing initiative, Wayne Glensky)  I've come to a realization.

 

THIS is one of the most comprehensive, damning OP's I've enjoyed(schadenfreude a'plenty!) in CDC's inspired history.

 

@Patel BureA hearty thanks! is in order. I'd give your first post +100, if it were allowed.

 

The Fleas(& their obsequious, lackey media) really burn my bacon. The HABS did us all a wonderful favour!

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This thread has reminded me that I dont listen to sports radio any more. I hardly pay attention during intermissions when watching the games, except to hear KB.

 

I would rather read you good folk here on CDC. Way more unbiased real info from us fans. 

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On 5/31/2021 at 8:08 PM, Slegr said:

I’m hoping this hilarious Leaf disaster helps convince Petey and Hughes to take a bit of a cut on contracts, recognizing that to win, you need a balance throughout the line up.

Yes. But the GM needs to be smart about the dollars he’s committing as well. 

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On 6/17/2021 at 4:48 PM, bishopshodan said:

This thread has reminded me that I dont listen to sports radio any more. I hardly pay attention during intermissions when watching the games, except to hear KB.

 

I would rather read you good folk here on CDC. Way more unbiased real info from us fans. 

Many media members in this city, along with the "Canucks fans" over at HF, like to pretend that our 2nd round appearance in 2020 didn't happen because it doesn't suit their narrative.   It's the most ridiculous thing ever.

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Amazing what works as click bait in here to get recs.

 

A little rewriting of history.  The way I recall it,  many pundits were questioning the large contracts on the Leafs eating up so much of the cap at the time.  How it was huge gamble.  Their defence has been questioned all along. For sure on CDC that was the talk.

 

Toronto won the lottery.  But bad cap managing killed them.  Its ludicrous to suggest that was the fault of "pundits". 

Toronto had a foundational player to build around, and began to do so. They mismanaged both his and the secondary pieces contracts.

So......any pundit that said back then that Toronto looked to be in a good position for their rebuild, is now mud because Dubas screwed it up?

 

I think its impossible to ever scientifically compare different teams rebuilds anyways.  So many factors involved.

Your place in the draft pick order.

Your cap total at the time, and contracts owed in future.

Your average player age and ability

How full your prospect cupboard is at the time

Injuries

And when and how full on, you will commit to the rebuild.

 

This article for The Hockey Writers website was suggesting a rebuild back in 2015 for Benning.

https://thehockeywriters.com/time-is-now-for-rebuild-in-vancouver/

 

And how do you compare rebuilds when one team refused to use the word rebuild?  When one team went through a rebuild accidentally while trying to make the playoffs but failing spectacularly at that so badly they were able to pick high and snag prospects that pretty well demanded that they start to utter the forbidden word, and start to plan for the future instead of the "day to day" reactive style of squeaking into the playoffs managing?

 

Even if you disagree with that synopsis, the situations of both teams were different when they started the rebuild.  And even then....what is a "start"?  Every team is going through a rebuild to some degree every single season. They have to. Its more of a difference in concentration in one area. Simplistic comparison but one is putting most of your eggs in one basket...collecting good prospects. Whereas when in contention, you put most of the eggs in star power and rentals.

 

And the crux of it is cap management. And player position management. And mix of ELC and veterans. And team chemistry. Its the lowest hanging fruit in blaming the hockey pundits that thought Toronto was going to be better by now. Who cares what hockey pundits got right, or got wrong.  The late great Botchford coined "they need an army".  And Benning is still challenged by that job.  Where you need a whole team of players pulling in the same direction, with contracts where non are vastly overpaid, and all four lines contribute well. 

 

Totally different situations.  Dubas and Benning both failed in some areas, and have succeeded in others.  Hate to break it to you but Toronto is not on the decline just yet.  And the Canucks are not ready to compete for the Cup just yet either.   Its yet to be determined which of the two teams will get to another SCF first.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, cuporbust said:

Lol. Sat is an absolutely awesome sportscaster. I didn't even read the OP because of the title 

Sat, is that you?  

 

Sat wants this team to be a bunch of ice dancers.  

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5 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

Many media members in this city, along with the "Canucks fans" over at HF, like to pretend that our 2nd round appearance in 2020 didn't happen because it doesn't suit their narrative.   It's the most ridiculous thing ever.

Team was a lot more solid. 

And markstrom was amazing.

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On 6/5/2021 at 11:16 PM, wai_lai416 said:

lol so Makar doesn't help his team win? since Makar joined the colorado lineup their goals against per game went down by 0.6 per game as a team. since Hughes joined the Canucks lineup our goals against per game as a team actually gone up. Makar would put up similar points on the canucks playing with Pettersson Boeser and Miller and be far better defensively vs Hughes prolly would put up very similar numbers on Colorado but he would still be a liability on defense..

 

hockey is not just about the pure points.. who cares if u can get 100 points a season if u give up 100 goals against. tyson barrie is not going to win the norris nor nominated for the finalist just coz he tops the league in points.. and Quinn Hughes compared to Dahlin.. Buffalo is a train wreck.. they manage to turn Taylor Hall into looking like Eriksson production wise.. their forwards are lazy and don't play an ounce of defense Vancouver's player on defense looks like all stars compared to what buffalo have outside of dahlin. put him on a more respectable team even say ottawa Dahlin would have a much better career/growth

Love this post. 

 

Who gives a sh!t how many points Hughes puts up if the team isnt winning.  I could not care less about individual stats on this team.  3 , 4, 5 players dont make you a winner.  Takes 20 guys that play well rounded games.

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Totally agree with the criticisms of Hughes. 

 

The reason why EP is so brilliant is that he's also a fantastic defensive player. His stature doesn't limit his overall impact. 

 

I just think people overvalue points but you see with guys like Danault - Gallagher that you don't need to be big point producers to be top level players - you just have to outplay the competition you matchup against. 

 

I just don't know how these guys can go into another season where you have both Myers and Hughes - especially when they both make a fortune. Hamonic and Edler are the only defense first guys we have and they're both in their 30's and UFAs. Probably both best as your 4-6th best D. Schmidt is good at defending as well but is at his best roving further up with someone to cover. 

 

They need to add a legitimate young top level defender who can play a stupid amount of ES minutes against other teams best players. 

 

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59 minutes ago, EddieVedder said:

Sat, is that you?  

 

Sat wants this team to be a bunch of ice dancers.  

Ice dancers? Don cherry is that you? You are probably one of the ones that wish guys were still destroying their families futures by getting crushed at center ice by Scott Stevens. They end up drooling on themselves through their 50's , and guys like you buy " rock em sock em" and have a beer and laugh about it. To each their own I guess.  Ya , I don't think Sat is wrong when he suggests skill over violent narsasism 

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46 minutes ago, Tom Sestito said:

Totally agree with the criticisms of Hughes. 

 

The reason why EP is so brilliant is that he's also a fantastic defensive player. His stature doesn't limit his overall impact. 

 

I just think people overvalue points but you see with guys like Danault - Gallagher that you don't need to be big point producers to be top level players - you just have to outplay the competition you matchup against. 

 

I just don't know how these guys can go into another season where you have both Myers and Hughes - especially when they both make a fortune. Hamonic and Edler are the only defense first guys we have and they're both in their 30's and UFAs. Probably both best as your 4-6th best D. Schmidt is good at defending as well but is at his best roving further up with someone to cover. 

 

They need to add a legitimate young top level defender who can play a stupid amount of ES minutes against other teams best players. 

 

Yeah god forbid going forward with a guy like hughes. Who needs a guy like that?

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56 minutes ago, cuporbust said:

Ice dancers? Don cherry is that you? You are probably one of the ones that wish guys were still destroying their families futures by getting crushed at center ice by Scott Stevens. They end up drooling on themselves through their 50's , and guys like you buy " rock em sock em" and have a beer and laugh about it. To each their own I guess.  Ya , I don't think Sat is wrong when he suggests skill over violent narsasism 

Yes because Lindros and Kariya are both drooling over themselves.  Get a grip bruh.  This is hockey, not the ice capades.  Youve probably never played any competitive team sports in your life, so ill explain simply.. you dont win unless you and your team can handle physicality.  

Btw, Scott Stevens was a heck of a skillfull player earlier in his career.  

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1 hour ago, Tom Sestito said:

Totally agree with the criticisms of Hughes. 

 

The reason why EP is so brilliant is that he's also a fantastic defensive player. His stature doesn't limit his overall impact. 

 

I just think people overvalue points but you see with guys like Danault - Gallagher that you don't need to be big point producers to be top level players - you just have to outplay the competition you matchup against. 

 

I just don't know how these guys can go into another season where you have both Myers and Hughes - especially when they both make a fortune. Hamonic and Edler are the only defense first guys we have and they're both in their 30's and UFAs. Probably both best as your 4-6th best D. Schmidt is good at defending as well but is at his best roving further up with someone to cover. 

 

They need to add a legitimate young top level defender who can play a stupid amount of ES minutes against other teams best players. 

 

Edler is older, but Hamonics still young.  You need those early 30 players in your lineup.  Hamonic made  difference last year, and quite frankly hes been an impact player everywhere hes played.  Benning needs to do what he can to resign him.

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2 hours ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Yeah god forbid going forward with a guy like hughes. Who needs a guy like that?

Strawman. My point is about salary allocation. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Yeah god forbid going forward with a guy like hughes. Who needs a guy like that?

I will only speak for myself Bert.

I like Q, I really like Q. He does things on the ice that very few Dmen have ever done wearing a Canucks jersey. I’m glad we are going forward with him. He is a tremendous asset now and will be even more of an asset going forward. I expect he will learn to use his best skills to become a better defender through both coaching and experience. 
 

I just don’t think we are going to win anything if he is our #1. Not hating. Not dismissing. Just being real. The many flaws that have endlessly but often effectively been pointed out in these threads are real. I can’t imagine you are blind to them. That is a “little body” and that is unlikely to change. Have you watched the pounding that takes place at this point in the payoffs?

 

The issue in my mind is not so much Q. The issue is the caliber of defense we have surrounding Q. This is why, when asked my opinion on what this team needs to prioritize, it always comes back to conjuring up a real, staunch, minute munching, tough as nails #1.

 

Still love the boy. I just think he needs a big brother.

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20 minutes ago, zimmy said:

I will only speak for myself Bert.

I like Q, I really like Q. He does things on the ice that very few Dmen have ever done wearing a Canucks jersey. I’m glad we are going forward with him. He is a tremendous asset now and will be even more of an asset going forward. I expect he will learn to use his best skills to become a better defender through both coaching and experience. 
 

I just don’t think we are going to win anything if he is our #1. Not hating. Not dismissing. Just being real. The many flaws that have endlessly but often effectively been pointed out in these threads are real. I can’t imagine you are blind to them. That is a “little body” and that is unlikely to change. Have you watched the pounding that takes place at this point in the payoffs?

 

The issue in my mind is not so much Q. The issue is the caliber of defense we have surrounding Q. This is why, when asked my opinion on what this team needs to prioritize, it always comes back to conjuring up a real, staunch, minute munching, tough as nails #1.

 

Still love the boy. I just think he needs a big brother.

Well thats why ive been campaigning to get Cernak lol.

 

anyways look at last nights montreal vegas game. Weber and Chariot sh*t the bed IN OVERTIME on the game winning goal!! All that experience all that height and weight and still screwed the pooch big league. Players even elite ones have their issues at times. 

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14 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Well thats why ive been campaigning to get Cernak lol.

 

anyways look at last nights montreal vegas game. Weber and Chariot sh*t the bed IN OVERTIME on the game winning goal!! All that experience all that height and weight and still screwed the pooch big league. Players even elite ones have their issues at times. 

Yes but weve never seen a dman get manhandled and wrecked like we have Hughes.  Elite dmen dont make the amount of turnovers Hughes was making in his own end.  

Honestly, i wont be surprised if at some point a coach tries him on the wing.  

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  • Patel Bure changed the title to With the Leafs loss to the Habs, guys like Rick Dhaliwal,Thomas Drance, JD Burke, 650 Sportsnet, and HF Canucks have received VERY huge blows

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