JM_ Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 hour ago, Alflives said: Are those statistics not presentable as evidence of guilt in the courts? If they are proven as fact then they would be, right? the stats just mean the Canucks needed to take this very seriously, and so do we. None of us knows what happened. We know these things do happen far more than false allegations happen. We don't know where on that spectrum Jake is at. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dats hockey Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 hour ago, Me_ said: That’s so 1998… I’m not saying don’t try to convict but if I where to say you raped me and now you’re in jail goodbye isn’t right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Patel Bure said: I’m not jumping on it to be contrary. I’m defending Jake because I truly believe that he was wronged in this case. Having said that, I will apologize if I am incorrect. Based off what? If you truely believe something, why don't you provide some reasons to why you feel confident drawing that conclusion. At this point you are just defending someone who has been accused of sexual assult with no evidence to support that he is innocent. Edited June 11, 2021 by shayster007 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 4 minutes ago, shayster007 said: Based off what? If you truely believe something, why don't you provide some reasons to why you feel confident drawing that conclusion. At this point you are just defending someone who has been accused of sexual assult with no evidence to support that he is innocent. So - guilty until proven innocent. Got it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.A.A Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 minute ago, Patel Bure said: So - guilty until proven innocent. Got it. And innocent because he's a Canuck right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Patel Bure said: So - guilty until proven innocent. Got it. Answer the question Patel. I have provided numerous links, reports, statics both globally and from the Canadian government that all lead the to conclusion that we must take these alligations very seriously. Answer why you "truely believe he has been wronged". I want to know the reasoning behind why you believe that so whole heartedly. Further more, I have never once stated that Virtanen is guilty. I have only replied to people saying that he is innocent with facts regarding sexual assult cases. I haven't stated an opinion one time this entire thread. Only cold hard facts around the subject. You have stated your opinion on him being innocent. So @Patel Bureanswer the question. Edited June 11, 2021 by shayster007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Dats hockey said: I’m not saying don’t try to convict but if I where to say you raped me and now you’re in jail goodbye isn’t right. That is a very appropriate comment. You sure know words. Edited June 11, 2021 by Me_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.A.A Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 There is no way for us to know whether Jake is guilty or not. Sadly, I doubt the truth will come out or justice will be served either way. Surprised by the number of ignorant and small minded people on this forum. The way the woman is being spoken about, being called a greedy, money grabber etc is horrifying. You are one of the reasons why women/victims of sexual abuse don't come forward. You should be ashamed of yourselves. 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadcanucks Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Alflives said: Everyone has the right to their day in court, no? Is Jake not entitled to that right? Are those who defend Jake's legal rights now low life's? I don't think anyone is denying Jake's right to a fair trial. What I took away from shayster's post is that the comments made by certain posters on this thread that have an implied and explicit conclusive "verdict" in Jake's favour, without knowing all of the facts and having not been witness to trial transcripts (which would be impossible to do since this case hasn't gone to trial yet) coupled with statistics and projections as laid out by Shayster paints Jake in a situation that is not altogether in his favor, are essentially asinine, and qualifies those making these comments as low lifes. Personally, I've wanted to see the Canucks dump Jake part way through this past season because after several years of being a Virtanen supporter, it became clear to me that Jake is no longer any use to the Canucks as a hockey player. Guilty or innocent, my attitude towards Jake is that the Canucks are better without him. Guy is dumber than a bag of hammers on and off the ice. For me as a hockey/Canucks fan, not withstanding the gravity of the legal allegations made by the young lady vs. Jake, the only thing that matters to me is whether Jake is of any value to the Canucks as a hockey player, and when I look at his on-ice performance and off-ice distraction he's thought to have caused, I say he doesn't have any, and it's time move him out of here using whatever means is legally available to the Canucks. Edited June 11, 2021 by bigbadcanucks 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dats hockey Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 Just now, Me_ said: That is a very appropriate comment. mods? Wow I guess discussing things with you isn’t a possibility. And showing examples is a no go. Half a good day man…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knucklehead91 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said: with respect, there's no way you could possibly know that. Just as none of us truly know if what she said is the truth either…. Its best we all just leave this subject alone and stop feeding into a negative view when the accused may very well be innocent. Without 100% certainty people are automatically assuming he’s guilty. I can say that I have seen a friend go through a false sexual assault accusation that derailed his life pretty heavily. Over the course of the investigation he developed an alcohol and cocaine addiction. My buddy was hooking up with a 19y/o girl for a little while and decided to break it off. She then called the cops and accused him of sexual assault the police went in and did an investigation and a short while later everything was dropped. Being his friend I didnt know how to react or what to believe. All I could do was stand to the side and let the justice system determine a verdict which it thankfully never went that far. But it was damaging enough that he moved out of town for a year and try to sober up. Which it wasnt until his heart exploded from the combination of his cocaine addiction and a heart defect that he had to give it all up or die. He was still heavily consuming drugs and alcohol when he moved away We should all just stop assuming or believing he or she is guilty/lying until a thorough investigation determines the verdict. Im not defending Virtanen nor am I disregarding her comments. This is not in our hands and we have very little and skewed information/details from 2 different sides of the story. Lets leave it to the police and get back to talking about the Canucks in a positive light 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JM_ Posted June 11, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 minute ago, knucklehead91 said: Just as none of us truly know if what she said is the truth either…. Its best we all just leave this subject alone and stop feeding into a negative view when the accused may very well be innocent. Without 100% certainty people are automatically assuming he’s guilty. I can say that I have seen a friend go through a false sexual assault accusation that derailed his life pretty heavily. Over the course of the investigation he developed an alcohol and cocaine addiction. My buddy was hooking up with a 19y/o girl for a little while and decided to break it off. She then called the cops and accused him of sexual assault the police went in and did an investigation and a short while later everything was dropped. Being his friend I didnt know how to react or what to believe. All I could do was stand to the side and let the justice system determine a verdict which it thankfully never went that far. But it was damaging enough that he moved out of town for a year and try to sober up. Which it wasnt until his heart exploded from the combination of his cocaine addiction and a heart defect that he had to give it all up or die. He was still heavily consuming drugs and alcohol when he moved away We should all just stop assuming or believing he or she is guilty/lying until a thorough investigation determines the verdict. Im not defending Virtanen nor am I disregarding her comments. This is not in our hands and we have very little and skewed information/details from 2 different sides of the story. Lets leave it to the police and get back to talking about the Canucks in a positive light I do think people need to lay off guilt or innocence positions, we just can't know at the moment. I do think its worthwhile having a discussion tho, as we're still seeing a lot of victim blaming which tbh is a bit of a surprise but also tells me it might still be a prevalent point of view out there. That needs to stop. 1 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Dats hockey said: Wow I guess discussing things with you isn’t a possibility. And showing examples is a no go. Half a good day man…. Being indecent. But the spotlight’s on you now. Edited June 11, 2021 by Me_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 4 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: I do think people need to lay off guilt or innocence positions, we just can't know at the moment. I do think its worthwhile having a discussion tho, as we're still seeing a lot of victim blaming which tbh is a bit of a surprise but also tells me it might still be a prevalent point of view out there. That needs to stop. The amount of victim blaming is both shocking and disgusting. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 23 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: the stats just mean the Canucks needed to take this very seriously, and so do we. None of us knows what happened. We know these things do happen far more than false allegations happen. We don't know where on that spectrum Jake is at. Which is exactly why Jake is being sued in a civil case, and under investigation in a (potential) criminal matter. His actions are in question. However, his opportunity to have a fair trial shouldn't be in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzipunch Posted June 11, 2021 Author Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 minute ago, shayster007 said: The amount of victim blaming is both shocking and disgusting. But jake said it wasnt true. Why is it impossible for him to be the victim? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 Just now, shayster007 said: The amount of victim blaming is both shocking and disgusting. How is any criminal having a fair trial blaming the victim? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 Just now, Bertuzzipunch said: But jake said it wasnt true. Why is it impossible for him to be the victim? It is possible. I outlined that in my post that I'm sure you didn't read. Statics tell us 2-8 percent of sexual assult alligations are declared 'false alligations' and 0.5% of alligations are entirely fabricated. It's entirely possible that Jake falls into that category. But to declare him innocent based off those numbers is naive and ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Alflives said: How is any criminal having a fair trial blaming the victim? Alf, this is an exact quote from a poster only 3 pages back. "ya it seems like she was pissed he dudnt call her back and wanted some cash and to ruin his reputation if its true i hope they throw the book at her" That's victim blaming. Edited June 11, 2021 by shayster007 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 minute ago, Alflives said: Which is exactly why Jake is being sued in a civil case, and under investigation in a (potential) criminal matter. His actions are in question. However, his opportunity to have a fair trial shouldn't be in question. bingo. Trial by social media mob would be a scary thing. Its really a tough thing. How do you "prove" something like this either way between two people in a room somewhere? If other people start coming forward with similar stories that would lend more credibility to a persons accusation but I don't think thats happened here. I think this goes on for quite a while. The Canucks are going to have to decide on a buyout likely long before this thing is concluded. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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