2022 NHL Entry Draft

[HighOnHockey]

21 hours ago, hammertime said:

Do you not agree that one of those factors in that broad scope should be that this team needs more that anything to hit a Kopitar, Getzlaf in the draft because as you stated above those players are rarely moved and IMO the best way to get one is draft one?                       

 

So BPA might be Kemell but there are other factors (rarity of power top 6 C's and top 4 RHD's) that push the scale Slafkovsky, Nemec. 

 

If you look how Detroit is building. 

Moritz Sieder Big RHD, Cossa Franchise G, Raymond Right shot skilled W, Zadina Left shot skilled W, Edvinsson big mobile LD , Buim Big mobile LD, Wallander big mobile LD. Veleno 3C.  Size, handedness and importantly positional need seem to greatly factor into how they evaluate BPA. They are building a team by depth chart through the draft.  Thankfully for us I guess Hughes didn't fit into their vision of 6'3 LD. But the point is that there is a clear vision there in how they are drafting and as a result are looking past guys most of us would consider BPA like Quinn and Eklund because they don't fit.                                                                                                                                                                                                  

 

I've gotta say man, I'm impressed you were able to take any emotion out of it and make a reasonable response. Respect.

 

Anyways, @Sp3nny and I had a really good conversation on all this last year. It got pretty deep. In that situation he was actually more of the hard-line BPA position and I took the position of mitigating or extenuating circumstances. One of the things we got into was this idea of assessing and predicting stylistic and strategic evolutions of the game, and building teams accordingly with particular attributes in mind, as you talk about with Detroit. If you predict and assess correctly, you're a genius. But things can change on a dime and plans can go wrong pretty quick.

 

But that's just the thing, it was never about team needs for Detroit, in the sense of trying to solve problems with the current roster. It is about a vision and drafting players who fit that vision. But it isn't necessarily team specific. If you think the game is moving towards big, mobile defenseman, then you draft those types of players in part because that's a subjective, particular emphasis, but surely also because you think those players will be objectively more valuable across the league.

 

Sure, the Canucks badly need a big power center, but so do a lot of teams. Say the Canucks' pick comes around and Slafkovsky and Nemec are gone, but Savoie, Kemell, Geekie and Jiricek are left. A big RHD and a big power center on the board, but it's not such an easy decision.

[Junkyard Dog]

5 hours ago, D.B Cooper said:

No way dude.  
You have a top 2 from the lotto. Nemec at 5. 
you are passing up all that good stuff because of a player that won’t be ready for a couple years?      
You fill positionally other ways. 

What are you talking about?

 

I don’t see a solidified 2-5 yet personally. Nemec has ranged from 2-5 in multiple rankings. 
 

He could very well be a BPA. A lot of season left to see whether or not that’s the case. 

 

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/589605/simon-nemec

[D.B Cooper]

6 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

What are you talking about?

 

I don’t see a solidified 2-5 yet personally. Nemec has ranged from 2-5 in multiple rankings. 
 

He could very well be a BPA. A lot of season left to see whether or not that’s the case. 

 

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/589605/simon-nemec

Obviously rankings aren’t set…….  So far, I see him going 6-7.  
Maybe top 5, but IMO that’s only because he is the only D that should be in the top 10. 

[Warhippy]

Will be interesting to see what happens with Boudreau now, I have a funny feeling we'll end up drafting now around 11th to 13th (provided we don't win the lotto) Looking at Bourdreau's first years it's always very consistent with new teams.  A small increase in play/performance followed by consistent year by year improviement and firing after repeated playoff failures

[Fred65]

9 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Will be interesting to see what happens with Boudreau now, I have a funny feeling we'll end up drafting now around 11th to 13th (provided we don't win the lotto) Looking at Bourdreau's first years it's always very consistent with new teams.  A small increase in play/performance followed by consistent year by year improviement and firing after repeated playoff failures

I think thhat's true, it always seems like a burst of enthusiasm followd by the players tuning him out. I'll say this he's going to a be a shock to the players system and who knows make them more rounded players

[Junkyard Dog]

11 minutes ago, D.B Cooper said:

Obviously rankings aren’t set…….  So far, I see him going 6-7.  
Maybe top 5, but IMO that’s only because he is the only D that should be in the top 10. 

I could see him going top 5 personally. I think Jiricek has a good chance at the top 10 too. Jiricek has an interesting package(size/speed/skill) and potential. He looks like a potential stud D as well. 
 

Should be interesting to see how Nemec does at the Olympics. He’s predicted as an extra D there so he probably get a few games at least. He’s on the WJC roster too with Jiricek. 

[Sp3nny]

5 hours ago, HighOnHockey said:

 

I've gotta say man, I'm impressed you were able to take any emotion out of it and make a reasonable response. Respect.

 

Anyways, @Sp3nny and I had a really good conversation on all this last year. It got pretty deep. In that situation he was actually more of the hard-line BPA position and I took the position of mitigating or extenuating circumstances. One of the things we got into was this idea of assessing and predicting stylistic and strategic evolutions of the game, and building teams accordingly with particular attributes in mind, as you talk about with Detroit. If you predict and assess correctly, you're a genius. But things can change on a dime and plans can go wrong pretty quick.

 

But that's just the thing, it was never about team needs for Detroit, in the sense of trying to solve problems with the current roster. It is about a vision and drafting players who fit that vision. But it isn't necessarily team specific. If you think the game is moving towards big, mobile defenseman, then you draft those types of players in part because that's a subjective, particular emphasis, but surely also because you think those players will be objectively more valuable across the league.

 

Sure, the Canucks badly need a big power center, but so do a lot of teams. Say the Canucks' pick comes around and Slafkovsky and Nemec are gone, but Savoie, Kemell, Geekie and Jiricek are left. A big RHD and a big power center on the board, but it's not such an easy decision.

Not to interject myself into the discussion, but @HighOnHockey and I did have a very good back and forth about it a while back. I don't necessarily want to to bring it back up, as it distracts from the discussion surrounding the players themselves, but I'll say something on it as I feel I understand both sides to the argument.

 

The BPA topic is honestly quite broad in what it actually means (which was my basic discussion point before) that it's hard to paint a picture of what each individual actually means when they label players/picks as BPA.

 

@hammertime your use of Seider is a perfect example. What makes him the BPA where he was taken? Is it that he is big and mobile on D? Is it that he's a RD? Is it that he is just plain better than the other players picked in his area? Its probably all those things combined, especially with hindsight. Think back to how fast he climbed the rankings in the latter half of the draft in 2019. As I recall, it started as 'this kid is damn good, he should go in the top 20' to rumors of top 10, to him actually being picked at 6, which some applauded for the reasons above, and some said it was a reach by Yzerman. Each person can have him as the BPA, but for far different reasons.

 

In the end, we never know how some of these players will develop. We never know if they will click with the coach or management style. We never know if they will be put into a perfect position to succeed and grab the bull by the horns. If Seider isn't picked by Detroit, maybe he isn't given the minutes and opportunity he gets right now, and he's still a good prospect on a better team and he doesn't have the same impact for another few seasons. And this all comes together to determine who the best player is.

 

Here is an example that somewhat plays on the idea of picking for need, but also shows that BPA can be subjective. Tom Wilson is picked 16th overall on the 2012 draft. This is a guy with a career high of 22 goals and 44 points (slightly cherrypicked from shortened seasons, but thats not my point). The 2012 draft is notoriously viewed as being pretty bad, which kinda helps Wilson's case in this matter. As to why Washington picked him, was it his size and PF capabilities? Was it a team need to have some tougher players to surround OV and Backstrom with? Or did they genuinely think he was the most skilled player at that pick? I don't think we rly know, but I wpuld imagine Washington loved the pick at 16 and wouldnt rly want any other player at that spot if they could go back. I think Wilson's real life value and impact are extremely valuable to Washington, and they would be to any team. But, is he viewed as the BPA, when Vasilevskiy goes at 19? Some may say no, Vasilevskiy is better player. Some may so yes, Wilson is a perfect fit on the Caps. I'm not saying one is right, and I'm not even sure there is a right answer as these are all vacuum questions that can't rly be answered properly. But it shows how broad BPA rly is, and what it means to each person is different.

 

For the record, I don't want to take away from the discussion going on, and I don't even expect a response to this post. I just felt I can understand both sides to the discussion, while also potentially broadening the thinking on the subject. I also rly enjoy deep diving on certain topics where I feel both sides can benefit from the back and forth of opinion.

[hammertime]

On 12/6/2021 at 8:35 AM, HighOnHockey said:

 

I've gotta say man, I'm impressed you were able to take any emotion out of it and make a reasonable response. Respect.

 

Anyways, @Sp3nny and I had a really good conversation on all this last year. It got pretty deep. In that situation he was actually more of the hard-line BPA position and I took the position of mitigating or extenuating circumstances. One of the things we got into was this idea of assessing and predicting stylistic and strategic evolutions of the game, and building teams accordingly with particular attributes in mind, as you talk about with Detroit. If you predict and assess correctly, you're a genius. But things can change on a dime and plans can go wrong pretty quick.

 

But that's just the thing, it was never about team needs for Detroit, in the sense of trying to solve problems with the current roster. It is about a vision and drafting players who fit that vision. But it isn't necessarily team specific. If you think the game is moving towards big, mobile defenseman, then you draft those types of players in part because that's a subjective, particular emphasis, but surely also because you think those players will be objectively more valuable across the league.

 

Sure, the Canucks badly need a big power center, but so do a lot of teams. Say the Canucks' pick comes around and Slafkovsky and Nemec are gone, but Savoie, Kemell, Geekie and Jiricek are left. A big RHD and a big power center on the board, but it's not such an easy decision.

 

In this scenario I'd probably hopefully had traded at the deadline for additional 1st + 2nd round picks (Boeser or Miller of both). Grab Kemell the gap is just too wide between him and Jiricek, Geekie. He may not be a hulking power forward or top 4 RHD but he plays with tremendous skill and the level of pestilence that needs to start becoming more synonymous with our team if Smyl's words have meaning Kemell is a guy who brings that hard to play against mentality in addition to the skill. Then use the deadline acquired 1st on 1 of.

 

Kasper 2/3C plays a hard nosed 200ft game can put up points or shut down opponents top lines. A force on both special teams penchant for scoring from the dirty areas. 

Gaucher 3C through and through possibly the highest floor defensive forward in this draft Button seems to think he has 1st line upside. Have a handfull of salt before reading that last bit. "Craig Button - TSN - Sept. 30th: "Big, strong, assertive and with the skill to make a defender's life very challenging. He can dish. He can shoot. He can go around you or through you. Has all the qualities of an imposing top-line centre.".  Extra points for being a right shot 6'3 210 who skates pretty good though.

 

Then hope that 2 of these guys will be there for our 2nd round pix. But 1 would do if someone really spicy drops to us. 

Chesley(Defensive RHD who can shoot off to a slow start offensively might keep dropping),

Bichsel (big physical LHD skates real good too),

Kirill Dolzhenkov (Russian Monster F)

 

Can I have my cake n eat it this year Stan please.

 

And if you can't at least pronounce their names on one of the biggest nights of their lives have someone else do it.   

 

PS Now that the team is back on the upswing with BB I think @Warhippyis probably right and we will finish the season in the right spot to land Kasper Gaucher without reaching too far which is kinda perfect. 

 

 

[J.I.A.H.N]

HighonHockey mentioned to me(us) that he liked Luneau at or near the 17th spot (where he is in some rankings), so to me, I have watched with interest, the entire RHD class of 2022.

 

The Hockey Writers list for December has the following RHD listed in the first round

 

Nemec at #2...........................6'1"     192 lbs...Offensive Dman............fast, quick first pass, improving on defense

Jiricek at # 13.........................6'3"     190 lbs...2 way Dman................. physical, good zone exits, needs to improve skating????

Casey at #14..........................5'10"    161 lbs...Offensive Dman............quick, good with the puck, physical

Luneau at #17........................6'2"      170 lbs...Offensive Dman............good skater, mobile, IQ, needs work defensively

Salomonsson at #22..............6'1"      172 lbs....Offensive Dman...........good skater, good first pass

Chesley at #23.......................6'0"      194 lbs....Defensive Dman..........good skater, defensive, IQ, defends well

 

Sport Nets December rankings are

 

jJiricek at #8

Nemec at #12

Luneau at #17

Casey at #18

Chesley at #20

Salomonsson at #21

 

FC Hockey December Rankings

 

Nemec at #3

Casey at #14

Jiricek at #15

Chesley at #16

Salomonsson at #19

Luneau at #20

 

 

So, "IF" the rankings stay somewhat similar, then there really starts to be no real excuse to draft a RHD in our draft position, without reaching..............

 

I find them intriguing, and very obtainable. I must admit to not knowing them as well as I should, but having read some, and having seen other ranking which have been close but not exactly the same, I have come up with a wish list of RHD 

 

#1........Nemec

#2........Jiricek

#3.........Chesley

#4.........Luneau

 

In saying that, I would love @HighOnHockey to give an opinion on these players "early" rankings

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by J.I.A.H.N

[J.I.A.H.N]

It will be interesting to see the January rankings!

[HighOnHockey]

12 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

HighonHockey mentioned to me(us) that he liked Luneau at or near the 17th spot (where he is in some rankings), so to me, I have watched with interest, the entire RHD class of 2022.

 

The Hockey Writers list for December has the following RHD listed in the first round

 

Nemec at #2...........................6'1"     192 lbs...Offensive Dman............fast, quick first pass, improving on defense

Jiricek at # 13.........................6'3"     190 lbs...2 way Dman................. physical, good zone exits, needs to improve skating????

Casey at #14..........................5'10"    161 lbs...Offensive Dman............quick, good with the puck, physical

Luneau at #17........................6'2"      170 lbs...Offensive Dman............good skater, mobile, IQ, needs work defensively

Salomonsson at #22..............6'1"      172 lbs....Offensive Dman...........good skater, good first pass

Chesley at #23.......................6'0"      194 lbs....Defensive Dman..........good skater, defensive, IQ, defends well

 

Sport Nets December rankings are

 

jJiricek at #8

Nemec at #12

Luneau at #17

Casey at #18

Chesley at #20

Salomonsson at #21

 

FC Hockey December Rankings

 

Nemec at #3

Casey at #14

Jiricek at #15

Chesley at #16

Salomonsson at #19

Luneau at #20

 

 

So, "IF" the rankings stay somewhat similar, then there really starts to be no real excuse to draft a RHD in our draft position, without reaching..............

 

I find them intriguing, and very obtainable. I must admit to not knowing them as well as I should, but having read some, and having seen other ranking which have been close but not exactly the same, I have come up with a wish list of RHD 

 

#1........Nemec

#2........Jiricek

#3.........Chesley

#4.........Luneau

 

In saying that, I would love @HighOnHockey to give an opinion on these players "early" rankings

 

 

 

Interesting that you mention Jiricek needs to improve his skating. All reports seem to suggest he is a strong skater. And from the little I've seen he seems to get around very well, particularly for his size. Still haven't seen too much of him. Waiting for World Juniors. But I am starting to see what people are raving about.

 

Luneau and Nemec were the two D I had in  my top ten coming into the season. For Luneau that was based on his defensive and transition game, and I've always expressed questions about his offensive upside. His lack of elite production in the Q this year has him out of my top ten at this time but still just inside my top 15, for now.

 

Very surprised you mention defense as a need for improvement for Nemec. This has not been my experience at all. He loves to jump up and attack the puck-carrier, and can get himself in trouble for it at times, but from everything I've seen he picks his spots very well, and should have no trouble finding a balance with this as he moves on to higher levels. I remember having followed Nemec's career from a very young age on eliteprospects, but when I first saw him play at World Juniors last year, the thing that grabbed my attention that this kid was a legit top 5 candidate came in a game against USA, when Slovakia was badly outmatched and this 16 year old D was their top player, playing big minutes against USA's star forwards. And there was one play in particular when a 19 year old former 5th overall pick Alex Turcotte entered the zone against Nemec one on one, and Nemec in one smooth motion separated Turcotte from the puck and immediately moved it out of harm's way. Best defenseman in the class and should be a top five pick.

 

Casey is a hell of a fun player to watch. Right there with guys like Drysdale and Quinn Hughes. Absolutely dynamic skater. Should be a top ten pick in most drafts. So much talent in the top 10-15 of this draft that he'll likely fall out of the top 10, but I'll be surprised if he falls past 15.

 

I'm not such a big fan of Chesley, but I know some people seem to really like him. Solid but unexciting two-way defender. I have him somewhere towards the end of the first round.

 

Salomonsson is a very interesting case. Easily the most skilled and creative offensive defenseman in the draft (except for Ty Nelson I suppose). Just an absolute magician in the offensive zone. The other two I'd have up there as most skilled offensive defensemen would be Casey and Nelson, but they are both 5'10, while Salomonsson has a much more projectable NHL frame at 6'1. Needs a lot of work in his own zone and in transition though. Looks good in those areas at times, but just makes a ton of mistakes. I could see some team liking the upside enough for him to still go top 15, but also wouldn't be shocked to see him fall quite a ways.

 

The two guys I will mention that could sneak their way up the lists are Kasper Kulonummi and Ty Nelson. I've always been in awe of Nelson, but coming into this season I didn't take him seriously as a top prospect as he was listed at 5'7 or 5'8. EP now has him at 5'10. Doesn't quite have Casey's skating wizardry, but he's very smooth in his own right, and might have even better offensive IQ than Casey. Kasper Kulonummi is a very reliable two-way defenseman who has been captain of Finland at every international event I've seen him; mostly he's focused on playing a safe, smart, reliable two-way game, but he's also shown flashes of pretty high-end offensive ability at times.

Edited December 10, 2021 by HighOnHockey

[J.I.A.H.N]

4 hours ago, HighOnHockey said:

Interesting that you mention Jiricek needs to improve his skating. All reports seem to suggest he is a strong skater. And from the little I've seen he seems to get around very well, particularly for his size. Still haven't seen too much of him. Waiting for World Juniors. But I am starting to see what people are raving about.

 

Luneau and Nemec were the two D I had in  my top ten coming into the season. For Luneau that was based on his defensive and transition game, and I've always expressed questions about his offensive upside. His lack of elite production in the Q this year has him out of my top ten at this time but still just inside my top 15, for now.

 

Very surprised you mention defense as a need for improvement for Nemec. This has not been my experience at all. He loves to jump up and attack the puck-carrier, and can get himself in trouble for it at times, but from everything I've seen he picks his spots very well, and should have no trouble finding a balance with this as he moves on to higher levels. I remember having followed Nemec's career from a very young age on eliteprospects, but when I first saw him play at World Juniors last year, the thing that grabbed my attention that this kid was a legit top 5 candidate came in a game against USA, when Slovakia was badly outmatched and this 16 year old D was their top player, playing big minutes against USA's star forwards. And there was one play in particular when a 19 year old former 5th overall pick Alex Turcotte entered the zone against Nemec one on one, and Nemec in one smooth motion separated Turcotte from the puck and immediately moved it out of harm's way. Best defenseman in the class and should be a top five pick.

 

Casey is a hell of a fun player to watch. Right there with guys like Drysdale and Quinn Hughes. Absolutely dynamic skater. Should be a top ten pick in most drafts. So much talent in the top 10-15 of this draft that he'll likely fall out of the top 10, but I'll be surprised if he falls past 15.

 

I'm not such a big fan of Chesley, but I know some people seem to really like him. Solid but unexciting two-way defender. I have him somewhere towards the end of the first round.

 

Salomonsson is a very interesting case. Easily the most skilled and creative offensive defenseman in the draft (except for Ty Nelson I suppose). Just an absolute magician in the offensive zone. The other two I'd have up there as most skilled offensive defensemen would be Casey and Nelson, but they are both 5'10, while Salomonsson has a much more projectable NHL frame at 6'1. Needs a lot of work in his own zone and in transition though. Looks good in those areas at times, but just makes a ton of mistakes. I could see some team liking the upside enough for him to still go top 15, but also wouldn't be shocked to see him fall quite a ways.

 

The two guys I will mention that could sneak their way up the lists are Kasper Kulonummi and Ty Nelson. I've always been in awe of Nelson, but coming into this season I didn't take him seriously as a top prospect as he was listed at 5'7 or 5'8. EP now has him at 5'10. Doesn't quite have Casey's skating wizardry, but he's very smooth in his own right, and might have even better offensive IQ than Casey. Kasper Kulonummi is a very reliable two-way defenseman who has been captain of Finland at every international event I've seen him; mostly he's focused on playing a safe, smart, reliable two-way game, but he's also shown flashes of pretty high-end offensive ability at times.

Great write up HonH

 

First off, please take my review with a grain of salt, it is more to invoke discussion, and draw someone like yourself into expressing your views. Like I have said to you many times, I really like your POV, and it is much more informed than mine.......enough hugs! LOL

 

Casey is a question for me, as your write up is what I see on him every where. Talented and aggressive , in a 5'10" body. Is that a player the Canucks need? I don't think so, where as Chesley is exactly what QH needs beside him. (Not considering Nemec or Jiricek)

 

I was really interested in your POV of Jiricek, who "may" be there when the Canucks pick. I like the size, and although I said that his skating was suspect, I have read contrary views to that also. I may have miss-read it also, or it could have been they were talking about what sets him apart from Nemec. A top 10, usually does not have a glaring weakness, so I am thinking it is on me, more than on him.

 

I was really interested in your opinion on BPA and the connotations of that, and how it plays off of the Canucks. I guess 1st off, I think the top RHD's are sort of divided perfectly for the Canucks to choose one, as there are so many of them and they are sorta spread out evenly throughout the 1st round, where they are not much of a reach, if any.

 

But in saying that, there sure are some nice looking forwards up there too. I will be interesting to see who the Canucks hire as GM, as IMO, this is an important draft, that does not come around  many times, with such talent laying in front of the Canucks, that they need (Centers and RHD). IMO, the Canuks should take a RHD, "IF" they are close to one, or trade up for one, with the reason being that, teams, just don't move 1st pairing Dmen all that often, and when they do, the cost is huge. This is especially true when it comes to RHD, even when they are normally 3 years away after the draft.

 

That is why I would go hard on Nemec or Jiricek now, if the opportunity is given. IMO, top end forwards take less time to be NHL ready, and are a little easier to find, out side of the top 10 (I kind of do, kinda don't believe that) but it appears RHD are pretty much the hardest position to fill. This draft seems to be full of them as you have mentioned.

 

I actually think if the Canucks get another first somewhere, I would be inclined to pick 2 RHD this year, again "IF" the reach is not too big. I am really looking forwards to seeing the U18's and the January draft rankings. I think Jiricek may be the guy that moves up the draft board, and may move out of our target area.

 

Anyways, thanks for replying to my post, and know, I totally love your views on the draft, as you normally fill in the holes in my opinions, and cause me, to start looking harder, and developing even more questions.

 

I would just love to sit in a draft war room, on draft day (or the days before).......I love prospects!

 

Thanks again!

[shiznak]

We should draft Jack Hughes.

[hammertime]

6 hours ago, shiznak said:

We should draft Jack Hughes.

Why???

[eeeeergh]

15 hours ago, shiznak said:

We should draft Jack Hughes.

Hearing good things about an 18 year old kid named Sam Bennett too

[hammertime]

I think Chesley is gonna drop out of the first. If that happens he's found money. 

[shiznak]

15 hours ago, hammertime said:

Why???

Just for the sake of having a Jack Hughes on the team.

[Stierlitz]

 

[hammertime]

For anyone interested here is Will Scouches list from today. I found the order he has for D especially interesting.  Lambert still in the #2 spot as well.

[R3aL]

On 12/6/2021 at 12:21 PM, Warhippy said:

Will be interesting to see what happens with Boudreau now, I have a funny feeling we'll end up drafting now around 11th to 13th (provided we don't win the lotto) Looking at Bourdreau's first years it's always very consistent with new teams.  A small increase in play/performance followed by consistent year by year improviement and firing after repeated playoff failures

Maybe we will help him break through !!