Chicken. Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 I think this signing will help us move on from the fat fake snake Jake. I bet most of his jerseys will be getting the name changed accordingly. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, Chicken. said: I think this signing will help us move on from the fat fake snake Jake. I bet most of his jerseys will be getting the name changed accordingly. Nice. That'll save my friend from having to put away his Virtanen Jersey. Lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoastcanucks777 Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 On 8/16/2021 at 7:09 AM, tas said: including that. Bo's defensive game is still overrated, and wasn't nearly as fleshed out back then. What is this evil talk? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryberg Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 11 hours ago, Chicken. said: I think this signing will help us move on from the fat fake snake Jake. I bet most of his jerseys will be getting the name changed accordingly. Shocker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Boudreau Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 13 hours ago, DeNiro said: Dickinson Pettersson Boeser Pearson Horvat Garland Hoglander Miller Podkolzin Would be awesome if he can provide something to that top line like a Hyman or a Burrows. Gives us way more depth. Not bad still have questions about team toughness on the 4th line and d core who is stepping up to lay body checks and clear the crease and step up in a physical pacific division playoff game? Pearson reminds me of Chris Higgins. The inconsistent streaky goalscorer turned grinder. Bit too high and inconsistent as a top 6 guy his ideal slot on a playoff team is a third line left wing who displays a solid 2 way game. I have questions about Gadjovich and his skating and overall speed being good enough to be an effective NHL forechecker on the 4th line. I would swap around Pearson with Hoglander as Horvat needs skill guys on his wings who can play make so he can play his north south game and continue to shoot first. The 4th line should be Motte-Sutter-MacEwan They need 1 big guy with size who will hit and fight if he has to in the lineup every night ideally. Highmore/Lockwood bring more speed if necessary and battle it out as the extra part. The biggest questions remain on d imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 49 minutes ago, Westcoastcanucks777 said: What is this evil talk? not evil, sensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 11 hours ago, Chicken. said: I think this signing will help us move on from the fat fake snake Jake. I bet most of his jerseys will be getting the name changed accordingly. I dunno, it seems a little hasty to not even consider a jersey retirement ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted August 17, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 17, 2021 49 minutes ago, Westcoastcanucks777 said: What is this evil talk? Not really “evil talk” to say Horvat’s defensive game is (or was) overrated by some. But probably no more than his offensive game has been underrated. There were some who pegged him as an ideal 3C for hard matchups and primary shutdown duties, with a main focus in the defensive zone. We can easily see now that he’d be miscast in such a role. Horvat is a very capable two-way player, and he can handle some defensive deployment and shutdown minutes, but ideally, he’s a secondary option for those roles, and given more balanced icetime in all situations, including a healthy helping of prime offensive opportunities. Horvat is a top quality offensive player, with a fine enough two-way game, but his greatest strengths are on the offensive side. He’s shown himself to be capable of producing offence at a first line rate. But when he’s forced to take the lion’s share of defensive zone faceoffs, and face the toughest competition on the team, and sometimes shoulder the bulk of that load on his own, and with inferior quality wingers, it’s just not an efficient use of his talents. He’s had to do this out of necessity at times, due to the weakness of the lineup, but he’s really not a defensive specialist, and he can be exposed at times in such roles. Despite his best efforts, he’s not really a “plus” level NHL defensive forward. He can hold his own, and certainly doesn’t need sheltering, but he can get overwhelmed if he’s completely thrown to the wolves (his analytics show this), and his offensive performance can suffer when he’s asked to devote too much of his energy and focus to shutting down the opposition’s best players. In a lineup where Horvat is truly supported by another line capable of taking on shutdown duties, and where he’s playing alongside legitimate top-6 wingers, Horvat can probably matchup against any top line in the league, and often will get the better of them, both offensively and defensively. But that’s what his matchup duties should look like. Being just as much (or even more of) a threat to score as the guys he’s facing on the other side of the ice. And then hopefully also being better than them defensively (since many of the league’s top scoring lines and offensive minded players tend to be quite porous defensively, at least when they’re forced to actually play defence). Horvat shouldn’t be asked to suppress opposition scoring, with a focus mainly on his own zone, and playing “low event” hockey. This is a poor use of his abilities, and not really a role he’s ever been all that successful at in the NHL. His job (at 5v5) should be to outscore his opponents, mainly through his line producing high rates of offence, while hopefully also playing well enough defensively to limit the number and quality of chances they’re giving up in their own end. 5 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoastcanucks777 Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 12 hours ago, Chicken. said: I think this signing will help us move on from the fat fake snake Jake. I bet most of his jerseys will be getting the name changed accordingly. To fully embrace #18 he must live as Jake did and undo what has been done 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoastcanucks777 Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 1 hour ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said: Not really “evil talk” to say Horvat’s defensive game is (or was) overrated by some. But probably no more than his offensive game has been underrated. There were some who pegged him as an ideal 3C for hard matchups and primary shutdown duties, with a main focus in the defensive zone. We can easily see now that he’d be miscast in such a role. Horvat is a very capable two-way player, and he can handle some defensive deployment and shutdown minutes, but ideally, he’s a secondary option for those roles, and given more balanced icetime in all situations, including a healthy helping of prime offensive opportunities. Horvat is a top quality offensive player, with a fine enough two-way game, but his greatest strengths are on the offensive side. He’s shown himself to be capable of producing offence at a first line rate. But when he’s forced to take the lion’s share of defensive zone faceoffs, and face the toughest competition on the team, and sometimes shoulder the bulk of that load on his own, and with inferior quality wingers, it’s just not an efficient use of his talents. He’s had to do this out of necessity at times, due to the weakness of the lineup, but he’s really not a defensive specialist, and he can be exposed at times in such roles. Despite his best efforts, he’s not really a “plus” level NHL defensive forward. He can hold his own, and certainly doesn’t need sheltering, but he can get overwhelmed if he’s completely thrown to the wolves (his analytics show this), and his offensive performance can suffer when he’s asked to devote too much of his energy and focus to shutting down the opposition’s best players. In a lineup where Horvat is truly supported by another line capable of taking on shutdown duties, and where he’s playing alongside legitimate top-6 wingers, Horvat can probably matchup against any top line in the league, and often will get the better of them, both offensively and defensively. But that’s what his matchup duties should look like. Being just as much (or even more of) a threat to score as the guys he’s facing on the other side of the ice. And then hopefully also being better than them defensively (since many of the league’s top scoring lines and offensive minded players tend to be quite porous defensively, at least when they’re forced to actually play defence). Horvat shouldn’t be asked to suppress opposition scoring, with a focus mainly on his own zone, and playing “low event” hockey. This is a poor use of his abilities, and not really a role he’s ever been all that successful at in the NHL. His job (at 5v5) should be to outscore his opponents, mainly through his line producing high rates of offence, while hopefully also playing well enough defensively to limit the number and quality of chances they’re giving up in their own end. Jim Bennin is that you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 I’ve always had the random thought that when young guys get elevated to the pros on weak teams their offensive games flourish while their defensive games suffer. IE as skilled players, they’re asked to provide scoring on weaker teams that usually struggle to score (or are often playing from behind.) Scoring is more fun, they accept it as their job and game after game, season after season the habits set in. I wonder if there’s a world where Bo played a bit longer under a true 1C and not an aging Hank where he maybe scores a few less points but is an excellent two way guy. Just random thoughts - and not really sure what I’d prefer tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 2 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said: Not really “evil talk” to say Horvat’s defensive game is (or was) overrated by some. But probably no more than his offensive game has been underrated. There were some who pegged him as an ideal 3C for hard matchups and primary shutdown duties, with a main focus in the defensive zone. We can easily see now that he’d be miscast in such a role. Horvat is a very capable two-way player, and he can handle some defensive deployment and shutdown minutes, but ideally, he’s a secondary option for those roles, and given more balanced icetime in all situations, including a healthy helping of prime offensive opportunities. Horvat is a top quality offensive player, with a fine enough two-way game, but his greatest strengths are on the offensive side. He’s shown himself to be capable of producing offence at a first line rate. But when he’s forced to take the lion’s share of defensive zone faceoffs, and face the toughest competition on the team, and sometimes shoulder the bulk of that load on his own, and with inferior quality wingers, it’s just not an efficient use of his talents. He’s had to do this out of necessity at times, due to the weakness of the lineup, but he’s really not a defensive specialist, and he can be exposed at times in such roles. Despite his best efforts, he’s not really a “plus” level NHL defensive forward. He can hold his own, and certainly doesn’t need sheltering, but he can get overwhelmed if he’s completely thrown to the wolves (his analytics show this), and his offensive performance can suffer when he’s asked to devote too much of his energy and focus to shutting down the opposition’s best players. In a lineup where Horvat is truly supported by another line capable of taking on shutdown duties, and where he’s playing alongside legitimate top-6 wingers, Horvat can probably matchup against any top line in the league, and often will get the better of them, both offensively and defensively. But that’s what his matchup duties should look like. Being just as much (or even more of) a threat to score as the guys he’s facing on the other side of the ice. And then hopefully also being better than them defensively (since many of the league’s top scoring lines and offensive minded players tend to be quite porous defensively, at least when they’re forced to actually play defence). Horvat shouldn’t be asked to suppress opposition scoring, with a focus mainly on his own zone, and playing “low event” hockey. This is a poor use of his abilities, and not really a role he’s ever been all that successful at in the NHL. His job (at 5v5) should be to outscore his opponents, mainly through his line producing high rates of offence, while hopefully also playing well enough defensively to limit the number and quality of chances they’re giving up in their own end. Exactly this. Horvat on a 2nd scoring line not tasked with significant shutdown/matchup minutes with Hoglander, Garland, Podkolzin, and the like on his wings and Pearson on the 3rd line would be far better utilization. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Westcoastcanucks777 said: Jim Bennin is that you? Haha, how so? If anything, I’d think the subtext of that post might be read as something of a criticism of Benning, when it comes to roster construction, player analysis, and how Horvat has, at times, suffered suboptimal usage due to the way the team (and his line) was built around him over the past several seasons. As well as how coaching was often forced, due to lack of options, to (mis)use Horvat, during significant stretches of his time in Vancouver. (Not that I’m looking to criticize JB right now, or take a CDC conversation down that well-worn but dead end road. Been there, done that. Just surprised by the “is that you, JB?” reply. I think this is the first time I’ve ever gotten one of those, so it’s kind of a special moment for me. ) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 4 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said: Horvat is a very capable two-way player, and he can handle some defensive deployment and shutdown minutes, but ideally, he’s a secondary option for those roles, and given more balanced icetime in all situations, including a healthy helping of prime offensive opportunities. Horvat is a top quality offensive player, with a fine enough two-way game, but his greatest strengths are on the offensive side. He’s shown himself to be capable of producing offence at a first line rate. But when he’s forced to take the lion’s share of defensive zone faceoffs, and face the toughest competition on the team, and sometimes shoulder the bulk of that load on his own, and with inferior quality wingers, it’s just not an efficient use of his talents. Just a shout out to addressing an imporrtant question. I am not sure you have this nailed though. Not that your commentary is unfair defensively? Nor that Benning JB did not try to get wingers. Pearson was a 2 time cup winner, as a 2 way winger. Eriksson a one time, albeit depth, Selke nominee. And Horvat himself is a 210lb, 215lb bulldog. Capable of, at worst, being the physical matchup that is ideal in a elite defensive centre? Add to it, that he is one of the best face off guys in the league. Reality check, which you are on board with; while he also has the hustle, and top speed, he does not have the agility, power to explode to a situation that needs defensive attention or balance of the Barkov's, the Bergerons who can blanket elite offensive forwards. He should be deployed as a defensive centre, just is not amongst the top ones. Yes Horvat is a good offensive guy. I strruggle to see us an elite team if he is our #1 pivot. Scoring at a first line rate? Yes. But not in any upper echelon, nor would I consider him dynamic. He scores because he goes to the net, including in transition. Capitalizes, is in the right position, executes simple plays efficiently, smart. Is in no way a wizrd with the puck. Also wins pucks. Is not evasive, creative or hard to read. He is not a guy that teams pencil as dangerous, must be stopped. I would not be using Horvat on our top line over Petey, Miller or Boeser. As an offensive forward? Maybe its nice that Dickinson is now also a physical 3C who can match up against anyone. Sutter was capable, but scared (or hit) no one. In the past it was up to Bo! Today Garland, and Podkolzin, are designed to bring the feist, speed, defensive attack. Get the puck! Take no prisoners. Piss off opposition. Something we have been missing, including with Bo , since the days of Burrows & Kess, Raffi Torres. Maybe we can use Bo's line as a secondary scoring line now also? I would prefer Bo Horvat also add that snarl! That aside an excellent 2C offensively. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtman Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 the new drinking game for JD18 is shotgun a beer whenever he takes a puck to the face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMP Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 9 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said: Exactly this. Horvat on a 2nd scoring line not tasked with significant shutdown/matchup minutes with Hoglander, Garland, Podkolzin, and the like on his wings and Pearson on the 3rd line would be far better utilization. Agree. Horvat with Hoglander and Garland would be great. Pearson is not a consistent scoring threat enough to put on the second line IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 On 8/16/2021 at 10:09 AM, tas said: including that. Bo's defensive game is still overrated, and wasn't nearly as fleshed out back then. That’s not how it works because that’s not how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, Westcoastcanucks777 said: To fully embrace #18 he must live as Jake did and undo what has been done Hopefully he doesn’t life as Jake did; not caring, coming into camp overweight, sexual wrongdoings and Covid ignorant. Because screw that chump. Dickinson will be grand. Edited August 18, 2021 by Me_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, GMP said: Agree. Horvat with Hoglander and Garland would be great. Pearson is not a consistent scoring threat enough to put on the second line IMO. Pearson will probably end up on the 3rd line the Canucks are so stacked now. Edited August 18, 2021 by Me_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack in the box Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 (edited) too far...? Edited August 18, 2021 by Gassy Jack 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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