[Offer Sheet] Hurricanes offer sheet Jesperi Kotkaniemi

[qwijibo]

Just now, BobbyClarke said:

I see this as a loss by Montreal. He was a high draft pick who has shown promise. Bergy let his pride get in the way of this. Great move for the Canes. 

How exactly did he let his pride get in his way?  He was negotiating a 2 year bridge contract based on Kotkaniemi‘a current value when Carolina stepped in with an offersheet far above market value.  Bergevin had to consider not only this years cap but upcoming contracts for Suzuki, Romanov and Canfield.  He made the best of a bad situation and came out with a very good young player in Dvorak (for the record Arizona fans are furious about trading Dvorak and getting an underwhelming return) 

[UFCanuck]

Kotkaniemi is only 21 and he has looked pretty good in the NHL. He has that potential to become elite. Now he's surrounded by elite talent so his stock will rise.

 

Like how our guys Kes and Burr moved up from the 4th line to 1st line players. They started to really get it going at 24-27. Sundin pushed everyone over the top of a hill to become elite players.

Edited September 6, 2021 by playboi19

[qwijibo]

2 minutes ago, playboi19 said:

Kotkaniemi is only 21 and he has looked pretty good in the NHL. He has that potential to become elite. 

 

Like how our guys Kes and Burr moved up from the 4th line to 1st line players. They started to really get it going at 24-27

People throw the word elite around way too much.  Kotkaniemi has some high end skills snd if he’s able to put his game together he should be a very good top 6 player.  I doubt he’ll ever be considered elite 

[UFCanuck]

7 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

People throw the word elite around way too much.  Kotkaniemi has some high end skills snd if he’s able to put his game together he should be a very good top 6 player.  I doubt he’ll ever be considered elite 

He's around Elite players like Aho and Svechnikov who should push him to that level. Not elite now but over the years he will get better yearly like most players. 

[qwijibo]

11 minutes ago, playboi19 said:

He's around Elite players like Aho and Svechnikov who should push him to that level. Not elite now but over the years he will get better yearly like most players. 

I suspect we differ on our definition of elite.  That said I think he has the potential to be a very good player and it’s a loss for Montreal 

[hammertime]

So Arizona is the big winner out of all of this sillyness.

[IBatch]

45 minutes ago, playboi19 said:

Kotkaniemi is only 21 and he has looked pretty good in the NHL. He has that potential to become elite. Now he's surrounded by elite talent so his stock will rise.

 

Like how our guys Kes and Burr moved up from the 4th line to 1st line players. They started to really get it going at 24-27. Sundin pushed everyone over the top of a hill to become elite players.

It really still amazes me that some people still buy into 1/2 season of Sundin exposure, turning our players into what they already were.   If this was the case, why didn't 17 or so years of playing in COL and TO "turn" other players into better ones too?    There is one quote that's easy to find regarding the twins and Sundin - "told them to relax and just treat the post season like regular season games"....hmm seems like sage advice indeed.   He had nothing to do with their ascension, or any others on our team, Sedins idolized him and rightly so, same way as young Canadian NHLers do Crosby and Toews (who actually won cups).   Yes maybe he did affect some in TO, was there long enough.   Messier had way more to do with Naslund,  and i hate to even have to bring this up, then Sundin had on the Sedins, Burrows and Kesler. 

[coryberg]

13 minutes ago, IBatch said:

It really still amazes me that some people still buy into 1/2 season of Sundin exposure, turning our players into what they already were.   If this was the case, why didn't 17 or so years of playing in COL and TO "turn" other players into better ones too?   

Sundin never played for Colorado.

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

11 minutes ago, hammertime said:

So Arizona is the big winner out of all of this sillyness.

Yeah, pretty much. 
 

And if they actually make good use of their picks, and the cap space and roster openings they’ll have in the next few years, then they’ll have done quite well.

 

It’s not necessarily an easy job, and they certainly could mess it all up, but the Arizona situation (strictly talking about on-ice/hockey ops side because that market is still a **** show) is a pretty enviable one, for a skilled GM and management group.

 

30 picks in the next 3 years, including 5 first rounders and 9 second rounders, and with $50+ million in cap space opening up, is a pretty nice starting point for a rebuild.

 

(I know you were more talking about the Dvorak/Kotkaniemi stuff, on its own, and not the broader picture. Just jumping off your post. But yeah, Arizona is probably the main winner, if you look at just these recent moves as a three way trade.)

[canuck73_3]

18 minutes ago, IBatch said:

It really still amazes me that some people still buy into 1/2 season of Sundin exposure, turning our players into what they already were.   If this was the case, why didn't 17 or so years of playing in COL and TO "turn" other players into better ones too?    There is one quote that's easy to find regarding the twins and Sundin - "told them to relax and just treat the post season like regular season games"....hmm seems like sage advice indeed.   He had nothing to do with their ascension, or any others on our team, Sedins idolized him and rightly so, same way as young Canadian NHLers do Crosby and Toews (who actually won cups).   Yes maybe he did affect some in TO, was there long enough.   Messier had way more to do with Naslund,  and i hate to even have to bring this up, then Sundin had on the Sedins, Burrows and Kesler. 

The players themselves have pointed out how much he helped their games and confidence. Not sure why you keep going on about it. The players have said he helped tremendously, I take them at their word for it, no reason for them to lie about it. 

[qwijibo]

29 minutes ago, hammertime said:

So Arizona is the big winner out of all of this sillyness.

Arizona fans are furious about both trading Dvorak and the return 

[hammertime]

5 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Arizona fans are furious about both trading Dvorak and the return 

[DeNiro]

11 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Arizonas fan is furious about both trading Dvorak and the return 

FTFY

[NMHockey]

4 hours ago, JM_ said:

have to agree to disagree. When Perry is your top player not sure it was depth doing the work. Price was great. 

Fleury and Lehner were also great. So was Campbell. So was Vasilevskiy. As was Varlamov. This was not the usual

“all the Canadiens need is Carey Price to be good”. Perry was their top player? No he was clutch and a leader. Their best players were 

Anderson, Suzuki, Caufield, Chiarot, Petry, Price.

[JustABandwagoner]

1 hour ago, qwijibo said:

Arizona fans are furious about both trading Dvorak and the return 

Just wait till they get lucky to draft Wright in the 2022 draft followed by Bedard/Michkov in the 2023 draft and then sign Auston matthews as a FA in 2024. Nobody will be laughing then 

[qwijibo]

15 minutes ago, DontMessMe said:

Just wait till they get lucky to draft Wright in the 2022 draft followed by Bedard/Michkov in the 2023 draft and then sign Auston matthews as a FA in 2024. Nobody will be laughing then 

It won’t happen with the pick they get from Montreal 

[Sean Monahan]

2 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Yeah, pretty much. 
 

And if they actually make good use of their picks, and the cap space and roster openings they’ll have in the next few years, then they’ll have done quite well.

 

It’s not necessarily an easy job, and they certainly could mess it all up, but the Arizona situation (strictly talking about on-ice/hockey ops side because that market is still a **** show) is a pretty enviable one, for a skilled GM and management group.

 

30 picks in the next 3 years, including 5 first rounders and 9 second rounders, and with $50+ million in cap space opening up, is a pretty nice starting point for a rebuild.

 

(I know you were more talking about the Dvorak/Kotkaniemi stuff, on its own, and not the broader picture. Just jumping off your post. But yeah, Arizona is probably the main winner, if you look at just these recent moves as a three way trade.)

And they should have the cap space to make a serious run at Matthews should he hit free agency. 

[MeanSeanBean]

50 minutes ago, DontMessMe said:

Just wait till they get lucky to draft Wright in the 2022 draft followed by Bedard/Michkov in the 2023 draft and then sign Auston matthews as a FA in 2024. Nobody will be laughing then 

And move the team to Quebec.

[4petesake]

2 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Yeah, pretty much. 
 

And if they actually make good use of their picks, and the cap space and roster openings they’ll have in the next few years, then they’ll have done quite well.

 

It’s not necessarily an easy job, and they certainly could mess it all up, but the Arizona situation (strictly talking about on-ice/hockey ops side because that market is still a **** show) is a pretty enviable one, for a skilled GM and management group.

 

30 picks in the next 3 years, including 5 first rounders and 9 second rounders, and with $50+ million in cap space opening up, is a pretty nice starting point for a rebuild.

 

(I know you were more talking about the Dvorak/Kotkaniemi stuff, on its own, and not the broader picture. Just jumping off your post. But yeah, Arizona is probably the main winner, if you look at just these recent moves as a three way trade.)

Rumours are they are looking for more and are asking for two firsts for Chycrun. That would be quite an arsenal of draft picks.

[JM_]

1 hour ago, ZH96 said:

Fleury and Lehner were also great. So was Campbell. So was Vasilevskiy. As was Varlamov. This was not the usual

“all the Canadiens need is Carey Price to be good”. Perry was their top player? No he was clutch and a leader. Their best players were 

Anderson, Suzuki, Caufield, Chiarot, Petry, Price.

Anderson under performed. Caufield is a smurf, as soon as they figured out how to keep him to the outside he was useless. 

 

We'll likely never agree, I think MTL was very lucky and you don't, we can leave it there.