[Offer Sheet] Hurricanes offer sheet Jesperi Kotkaniemi

[BigTramFan]

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

They’d need to trade for a replacement.  They should try to get Eichel.  

Habs 22 first

Hans 23 first

Canes 22 first (compensation)

Canes 22 third (compensation)

Romanov

Ghule

Drouin (cap dump)

 

I think if they replace Drouin (-ve value) with Toffoli (+ve value) then they can remove Romanov and the 3rd rounder from the deal. Romanov is quite critical t MONs future on D I think, so best they don't trade him. Don't think BUF want another LD, so Guhle is not required either.

 

I reckon Toffoli + Habs 2022 1st + CAR 2022 1st + Habs 2023 1st gets it done.

 

Should Habs do that with Eichel a massive injury risk? Dunno. Glad its not the Canucks in this position!

Edited August 31, 2021 by BigTramFan

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, BigTramFan said:

I think if they replace Drouin (-ve value) with Toffoli (+ve value) then they can remove Romanov and the 3rd rounder from the deal. Romanov is quite critical t MONs future on D I think, so best they don't trade him. Don't think BUF want another LD, so Guhle is not required either.

 

I reckon Toffoli + Habs 2022 1st + CAR 2022 1st + Habs 2023 1st gets it done.

 

Should Habs do that with Eichel a massive injury risk? Dunno. Glad its not the Canucks in this position!

Seems like there would need to be another team involved.  The Sabres take Tofoli, but move him for a second?

Sabres end up with:

2022 Habs first

2022 Canes first and third

2023 Habs first

2022 third team’s second for Tofoli.

 

Three first, a second, and a third.  Like you point out, Eichel (because of his neck) is a risk.  Picks (even firsts) are a risk.  This should be fair value for Jack, no?  

[qwijibo]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Seems like there would need to be another team involved.  The Sabres take Tofoli, but move him for a second?

Sabres end up with:

2022 Habs first

2022 Canes first and third

2023 Habs first

2022 third team’s second for Tofoli.

 

Three first, a second, and a third.  Like you point out, Eichel (because of his neck) is a risk.  Picks (even firsts) are a risk.  This should be fair value for Jack, no?  

You’re insane if you think Montreal would consider that for a second.  That’s way more than Eichel is worth considering his health and injury status. Not to mention his cap hit and length of term left.  Any team giving up anything substantial for him right now would be taking a giant risk.  

[MystifyNCrucify]

2 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

Yeah I am NOT saying VAN should be trading for Eichel but the Habs may consider it. 

I know. Im just saying, if i was gm, i would need to be getting a pretty good price to take on a potential jeff skinner/10 mill in ltir money. 

 

Definately no where near the multiple firsts + prospects people are talking about. 

 

(Pretty funny that the sabres already have skinner, and that they were the ones that signed him to that abomination of a contract. )

[Gawdzukes]

On 8/30/2021 at 12:14 PM, DeNiro said:

And basically signalling the start of another rebuild?

 

Nk way that happens. You can say goodbye to Horvat, Boeser, and Miller too. They don’t stick around if we trade away our best player.

What if he signs a $10.25 deal for 2 or 3 years or whatever length? Not great compensation but high dollars still?

[4petesake]

48 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

What if he signs a $10.25 deal for 2 or 3 years or whatever length? Not great compensation but high dollars still?

I don’t blame any player who might decide to sign a high dollar offer sheet. My problem is when his agent has negotiated terms that specifically stick it to his team. I include the JK signing bonus of $20 here and would think the same about Petey signing a $10.25M offer sheet. He’d be screwing the Canucks out of two first rounders for $27,000. If I’m EP I tell my agent to get me the extra 27 or forget it.

[Hairy Kneel]

15 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

Yeah I am NOT saying VAN should be trading for Eichel but the Habs may consider it. 

Offer sheet? 

[The Lock]

14 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Offer sheet? 

1) Buffalo's literally NEEDS Eichel's contract to go above the cap floor. An offer sheet is all but 100% gauranteed to be matched.

2) Having Eichel would likely mean no more Petey for us.

3) Buffalo has so much cap space and all of their picks to offer sheet our players at will if we were to make them as an "enemy". An offer sheet war would only mean death for us.

[4petesake]

1 minute ago, The Lock said:

1) Buffalo's literally NEEDS Eichel's contract to go above the cap floor. An offer sheet is all but 100% gauranteed to be matched.

2) Having Eichel would likely mean no more Petey for us.

3) Buffalo has so much cap space and all of their picks to offer sheet our players at will if we were to make them as an "enemy". An offer sheet war would only mean death for us.

Eichel is under contract and can’t be offer sheeted.

[The Lock]

Just now, 4petesake said:

Eichel is under contract and can’t be offer sheeted.

Fair enouigh. I was more responding to how bad an idea that would be anyway. It justs seems like everyone keeps talking about offer sheets like they're an actual viable thing 99% of the time, which they are not. lol

[Jayinblack]

28 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

I don’t blame any player who might decide to sign a high dollar offer sheet. My problem is when his agent has negotiated terms that specifically stick it to his team. I include the JK signing bonus of $20 here and would think the same about Petey signing a $10.25M offer sheet. He’d be screwing the Canucks out of two first rounders for $27,000. If I’m EP I tell my agent to get me the extra 27 or forget it.

I doubt it cause it'd be his new team (that he wants to be competitive) that would be giving up the additional 2 first rounders.

 

Tricky things them offer sheets

[4petesake]

35 minutes ago, Jayinblack said:

I doubt it cause it'd be his new team (that he wants to be competitive) that would be giving up the additional 2 first rounders.

 

Tricky things them offer sheets

Very true! (That wouldn’t change how I’d feel as a Canuck fan though.)

[Kragar]

1 hour ago, 4petesake said:

I don’t blame any player who might decide to sign a high dollar offer sheet. My problem is when his agent has negotiated terms that specifically stick it to his team. I include the JK signing bonus of $20 here and would think the same about Petey signing a $10.25M offer sheet. He’d be screwing the Canucks out of two first rounders for $27,000. If I’m EP I tell my agent to get me the extra 27 or forget it.

While I'd like to think more responsible players (including EP) would make an effort to be more honorable when signing the offer sheet, like you suggest, it might be hard ignore the impact of the compensation picks that his new team would give up.  If EP could get paid, and go to a team that gives up 2 firsts instead of 4, that would be even better for him. 

 

I think it is even more clear in the $20 signing bonus situation, if JK is willing to say F-you to the Habs.  Could easily hurt his relationship with the team if the Habs match, but OTOH a subtle jab like that is better than taking it more public.

 

Ultimately, it comes down to how one felt they were being treated before the offer sheet.  Should one be sent Petey's way, I think the odds are much higher that he would press for the greater compensation package, but so incredibly less likely the JK gives a squat about the $20 snub.

 

Edit: I took too much time, and I see @Jayinblack said it more succinctly  

Edited August 31, 2021 by Kragar

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, 4petesake said:

I don’t blame any player who might decide to sign a high dollar offer sheet. My problem is when his agent has negotiated terms that specifically stick it to his team. I include the JK signing bonus of $20 here and would think the same about Petey signing a $10.25M offer sheet. He’d be screwing the Canucks out of two first rounders for $27,000. If I’m EP I tell my agent to get me the extra 27 or forget it.

I like the sentiment but it would be hard to turn down $10.25 x 7 when you're only being offered $7x3 or $8.5x7 by the Canucks.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I like the sentiment but it would be hard to turn down $10.25 x 7 when you're only being offered $7x3 or $8.5x7 by the Canucks.

I think the cap on an offer sheet is calculated on five years.  So 10.25 x 7 is well over the four firsts as compensation threshold. Regardless, we match.  

[CanucksJay]

14 hours ago, qwijibo said:

You’re insane if you think Montreal would consider that for a second.  That’s way more than Eichel is worth considering his health and injury status. Not to mention his cap hit and length of term left.  Any team giving up anything substantial for him right now would be taking a giant risk.  

Agreed.

His contract and injury along with his desire to leave Buffalo is enough to lower his value immensly.

He's worth 2 first rounders and a prospect at best because the team that takes him on is gonna be spending a major chunk of their capspace on one player with a questionable future.  If Buffalo offered Eichel for 2 firsts and Gadj, I would have to think long and hard.  It'd be a tough decision.

Only way I'd make the deal is if the draft picks were staggered in years like 2022 and 2023 and the 2023 pick is tied to Eichel's health or number of games played and could move down from a 1st to a 3rd depending on health

[4petesake]

29 minutes ago, Kragar said:

While I'd like to think more responsible players (including EP) would make an effort to be more honorable when signing the offer sheet, like you suggest, it might be hard ignore the impact of the compensation picks that his new team would give up.  If EP could get paid, and go to a team that gives up 2 firsts instead of 4, that would be even better for him. 

 

I think it is even more clear in the $20 signing bonus situation, if JK is willing to say F-you to the Habs.  Could easily hurt his relationship with the team if the Habs match, but OTOH a subtle jab like that is better than taking it more public.

 

Ultimately, it comes down to how one felt they were being treated before the offer sheet.  Should one be sent Petey's way, I think the odds are much higher that he would press for the greater compensation package, but so incredibly less likely the JK gives a squat about the $20 snub.

I agree with you (and also @Jayinblack) that less compensation paid to the team that signs him is to his benefit in the long run, so he may or may not care. I like to think he would but who knows, honour is much less important today. Playing my old dude card here I guess. Also there is no way I’d take an extra $20 like JK just to help embarrass my old team. In any case my point really was how I’d feel about Petey as a Canuck fan and not about whether he should sign it.

 

I see your post @Gawdzukes so I’ll respond here. Absolutely he should sign if the offer is so much better. As a Canuck fan though I would feel like he was helping to screw the Canucks out of two firsts for $27,000. I’m not saying that’s how he should feel, I’m saying that’s how I would feel.

 

I will add also that I’ve said many times that the chance of EP receiving an offer sheet is so remote that it is not something that concerns me a whole lot so just spitballing in responding to the post.

 

 

[Alflives]

14 hours ago, qwijibo said:

You’re insane if you think Montreal would consider that for a second.  That’s way more than Eichel is worth considering his health and injury status. Not to mention his cap hit and length of term left.  Any team giving up anything substantial for him right now would be taking a giant risk.  

Eichel is a risk for sure, but the return is all picks, and they are a risk too.  Each team takes on risk.  That’s a fair trade.  If Jack does get healthy (yes, that’s a risk) the Habs have Jack and Suzuki as their top two centres.  Losing JK might force MB to make a trade like this one for Eichel.  And what are the chances the Sabres get a player even close to Jack with those picks?  Very slim.  The trade is very fair.  

Edited August 31, 2021 by Alflives

[qwijibo]

23 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Eichel is a risk for sure, but the return is all picks, and they are a risk too.  Each team takes on risk.  That’s a fair trade.  If Jack does get healthy (yes, that’s a risk) the Habs have Jack and Suzuki as their top two centres.  Losing JK might force MB to make a trade like this one for Eichel.  And what are the chances the Sabres get a player even close to Jack with those picks?  Very slim.  The trade is very fair.  

Not remotely fair value for Montreal. The fact that you value Toffoli as a 2nd round pick makes the entire proposal a joke. A rental Toffoli cost Vancouver a 2nd, 2 prospects and a conditional pick. He just has a career type year in Montreal and was a beast n the playoffs.  He’s also signed to a cap friendly deal for three more seasons.  He’s worth far more than a 2nd 

[Alflives]

19 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Not remotely fair value for Montreal. The fact that you value Toffoli as a 2nd round pick makes the entire proposal a joke. A rental Toffoli cost Vancouver a 2nd, 2 prospects and a conditional pick. He just has a career type year in Montreal and was a beast n the playoffs.  He’s also signed to a cap friendly deal for three more seasons.  He’s worth far more than a 2nd 

Tofu was a coming UFA.  Now he’s a 29 year old player with term at big dollars.  He’s also a risk.  He’s worth a second, and that’s from a competitive team, so a pick in the 50’s.  Bergevin is stuck right now.  He lost Danault for nothing.  Now he’s about to lose Danault’s replacement too.  He put the Habs in big trouble.