How good is the Canucks D now?

[Alflives]

11 minutes ago, Silky mitts said:

OEL will dictate a huge portion , whether he can regain form . Right side remains weak however .

Hughes, being a phenom, could move to the right side. For now though, with Myers, Hamonic, and Poolman, there isn't the need.  But in game, if we need a goal, I could see Hughes with OEL.  

[NewbieCanuckFan]

13 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Hughes, being a phenom, could move to the right side. For now though, with Myers, Hamonic, and Poolman, there isn't the need.  But in game, if we need a goal, I could see Hughes with OEL.  

Better to leave the kid on the left side until he learns to at least play *defense* on a passable level.  That's how you impact (negatively) development.   No need to rush him.  He'll get it on his time.

Edited September 10, 2021 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Gawdzukes]

10 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Probably better to say OEL replaces Schmidt in handling the tough minutes with *maybe* Poolman taking over Edler’s minutes.  

Ha, blah, schma.  Just joking, We had a horrible defence last year and Edler was pure trash anyway. He's just too slow now despite his size and skill. Lets just say it's a brand new team this year and we need to fill about 120 minutes with 6 players playing each game. I'd rather look at it as new team than trying to fulfill or redo last years team.

 

Just minute wise Edler 20:54 and Schmidt 20:06 = 41 min.

OEL 20:58 and Poolman 18:18 = 39:16 min

 

I don't foresee a problem there. Harmonic played 19:22 last year in a more reduced role but played 21:12, 20:52, and 20:42, the three years before, and averaged 21:58 in his career, so minute wise it should all equal out. Also, I would hope Juolevi, or RBone, can handle an uptick over Juolevi's 13:13. I think we need that to reduce Myers and Quinn's TOI.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Ha, blah, schma.  Just joking, We had a horrible defence last year and Edler was pure trash anyway. He's just too slow now despite his size and skill. Lets just say it's a brand new team this year and we need to fill about 120 minutes with 6 players playing each game. I'd rather look at it as new team than trying to fulfill or redo last years team.

 

Just minute wise Edler 20:54 and Schmidt 20:06 = 41 min.

OEL 20:58 and Poolman 18:18 = 39:16 min

 

I don't foresee a problem there. Harmonic played 19:22 last year in a more reduced role but played 21:12, 20:52, and 20:42, the three years before, and averaged 21:58 in his career, so minute wise it should all equal out. Also, I would hope Juolevi, or RBone, can handle an uptick over Juolevi's 13:13. I think we need that to reduce Myers and Quinn's TOI.

Have we ever had a new (experienced and hyped) D come and be as disappointing as Schmidt.  That guy was the worst.  Poolman is a HUGE upgrade.  

[nergish]

We have an entire D corps of OFD.

It's not the strategy I would use, personally... but it's a far better group than the Bartkowski/Pouliot days.

 

At least they're all legitimate NHL Dmen.

We'll be an exciting team and could generate a lot of points from the backend (I think Hughes is a 65-70 point player), but Demko will be called upon to be solid between the pipes every night.

[Josepho]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Have we ever had a new (experienced and hyped) D come and be as disappointing as Schmidt.  That guy was the worst.  Poolman is a HUGE upgrade.  

 

There's being an optimistic fan and then there's just blatantly making $&!# up and moving the goalposts to blindly support your GM.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Josepho said:

 

There's being an optimistic fan and then there's just blatantly making $&!# up and moving the goalposts to blindly support your GM.

Nah.  Schmidt was terrible with us.  That's clear.  He's a PED guy.  Take away his PEDs and he's craperolla.  So glad he's gone.  Benning did great dumping Schmidt  on the Jets.  Poolman is the better player.  Jets will be missing the playoffs, and Schmidt will be a big reason why.  It's going to be fun watching that team implode, and Schmidt whine.

[alt kilgore]

1 hour ago, JM_ said:

CDC is infested by Chicago and MTL fans. We must root them out and shame them. 

We have to expose them for the fans they really are.

[Patel Bure]

11 minutes ago, Josepho said:

 

There's being an optimistic fan and then there's just blatantly making $&!# up and moving the goalposts to blindly support your GM.

What does this have to do with me?  
 

I only suggested Schmidt for Sissons back then because I knew that Schmidt wanted out?

[86Viking]

20 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

 

 

What do you think?  Is the D improved enough to bump up the win column this year or is TSN bang on?

I give it till the Christmas break to see how these new guys fit in and gel together as well as a hopeful large influence from the new assistant coach to hopefully improve our D

[Gawdzukes]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Have we ever had a new (experienced and hyped) D come and be as disappointing as Schmidt.  That guy was the worst.  Poolman is a HUGE upgrade.  

Not that I recall. I really thought it was a great acquisition but he never impressed me at all. Let alone during the entirety of the season but I don't recall one game where I thought, hey that's the reason I was excited about this guy. In retrospect he seems to be a yap box who excels at being the barely qualified clown on a real good team where he doesn't have to let his play speak for itself.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

 

1 hour ago, Canuckster86 said:

I give it till the Christmas break to see how these new guys fit in and gel together as well as a hopeful large influence from the new assistant coach to hopefully improve our D

Isn't Nolan Baumgartner still in charge of the blueline (re: coaching)?  Sure Shaw will have his influence but lipstick on a pig is still.....

[King Heffy]

1 hour ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

 

Isn't Nolan Baumgartner still in charge of the blueline (re: coaching)?  Sure Shaw will have his influence but lipstick on a pig is still.....

I'm hoping him having adult supervision will at least avoid him dictating what system we play.  Otherwise, we'd be screwed with the late 90s Detroit group.  Baumgartner was the biggest reason we struggled last year and frankly he should have been fired altogether.

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

Ha, blah, schma.  Just joking, We had a horrible defence last year and Edler was pure trash anyway. He's just too slow now despite his size and skill. Lets just say it's a brand new team this year and we need to fill about 120 minutes with 6 players playing each game. I'd rather look at it as new team than trying to fulfill or redo last years team.

 

Just minute wise Edler 20:54 and Schmidt 20:06 = 41 min.

OEL 20:58 and Poolman 18:18 = 39:16 min

 

I don't foresee a problem there. Harmonic played 19:22 last year in a more reduced role but played 21:12, 20:52, and 20:42, the three years before, and averaged 21:58 in his career, so minute wise it should all equal out. Also, I would hope Juolevi, or RBone, can handle an uptick over Juolevi's 13:13. I think we need that to reduce Myers and Quinn's TOI.

Just "minute wise" Edler led the team in PK - just behind him Myers.   And also took the toughest assignments at home with Schmidt.   If your going to analyze the minutes - then provide some context.   Also QHs and Myers together were a black hole - and to provide some context with that, it had to do with us playing catch up and getting burned as a result - hope the coaching staff knows that's a failed experiment.    On Myers.  Guy was our jack of all trades master of none last season.   He's a legit top four D still in this league.   On Hamonic.  He's getting too old for top four minutes - good luck with QHs but at least it started to gel.   On Poolman, he's our new Benn, don't get your hopes up but as a third pairing guy we could do worse.   On OEL - have no idea.   Let's put a pin on that one.   On OJ.  OJ-Myers was one of our best and safest pairings in limited sample size .... to be continued.  On Rathbone - guys totally jacked.  If QHs had his muscles this wouldn't even be a thread, we'd be sorted.    On Rathbone 2.0 .... well maybe, just maybe we should be saving some of that coin for him just in case.   

 

Overall?  Any hockey expert rightly so should be concerned about our D.   Our top four doesn't stack up well against the top 10 in the league as of right now.  Our "best" D,  hasn't hit his prime yet.   OEL should be > then Edler.    That's a good thing.    I suppose if all works out well we make the show and do some damage.   I also think that's all we should expect right now.   We need some more up and comers to push things along.  Or a hockey trade. 

[alt kilgore]

55 minutes ago, IBatch said:

On OJ.  OJ-Myers was one of our best and safest pairings in limited sample size .... to be continued.  On Rathbone - guys totally jacked.  If QHs had his muscles this wouldn't even be a thread, we'd be sorted.    On Rathbone 2.0 .... well maybe, just maybe we should be saving some of that coin for him just in case.   

 

Overall?  Any hockey expert rightly so should be concerned about our D.   Our top four doesn't stack up well against the top 10 in the league as of right now.  Our "best" D,  hasn't hit his prime yet.   OEL should be > then Edler.    That's a good thing.    I suppose if all works out well we make the show and do some damage.   I also think that's all we should expect right now.   We need some more up and comers to push things along.  Or a hockey trade. 

 

I thought, from my eye test, OJ never looked better than the last time Green gave him some ice time. Which was awhile ago.  Positionally he seemed to always be in the right defensive spot.  He is filling out body wise and was looking much less intimidated by older veteran forwards on other teams. Just quietly did his job quite efficiently.

 

I honestly thought he was going to stick. Maybe I'm just seeing things I want to, as Green didn't seem to see what I saw, or just that Rathbone took over his spot just based on his skating and offensive ability.  But I think all OJ needs is more time in the NHL.  He seems like one of those D that fits right into the stereotype of D developing later.  

 

A lot of this thread is lamenting the loss of our more defensive defensemen. Edler, Tanev, even Stecher was very good defensively.  I think OJ could fill a part of that hole.  But he needs some trust, and an open spot, playing time to get better and be that player for them.  The only way may be through injury on some other D, because of the new pieces that JB brought in and probably wants to try out first, but I really hope he gets another good shot here.

 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by kilgore

[IBatch]

5 minutes ago, kilgore said:

 

I thought, from my eye test, OJ never looked better than the last time Green gave him some ice time. Which was awhile ago.  Positionally he seemed to always be in the right defensive spot.  He is filling out body wise and was looking much less intimidated by older veteran forwards on other teams. Just quietly did his job quite efficiently.

 

I honestly thought he was going to stick. Maybe I'm just seeing things I want to, as Green didn't seem to see what I saw, or just that Rathbone took over his spot just based on his skating and offensive ability.  But I think all OJ needs is more time in the NHL.  He seems like one of those D that fits right into the stereotype of D developing later.  

 

A lot of this thread is lamenting the loss of our more defensive defensemen. Edler, Tanev, even Stecher was very good defensively.  I think OJ could fill a part of that hole.  But he needs some trust, and an open spot, playing time to get better and be that player for them.  The only way may be through injury on some other D, because of the new pieces that JB brought in and probably wants to try out first, but I really hope he gets another good shot here.

 

 

 

OJ was still struggling from Covid so was given the rest of the year off.   To me he wasn't as good after that - and supposedly he lost quite a bit of weight too.   Rathbone was decent too so going to be a tough call.   Rathbone probably starts in Abbotsford unless he really impresses... given he has to clear waivers.   Green was right to pull OJ and give Rathbone a shot - by then our season was shot too lol.    OJ didn't get the same minutes either but i think that might be trying to ease him in i'm not sure.   Rathbone had some 18 plus minute games but if it was early on when the season wasn't clear yet, could have just as easily been 14-15 like OJ.   Glad we have those two to battle it out anyways... 

[alt kilgore]

4 minutes ago, IBatch said:

OJ was still struggling from Covid so was given the rest of the year off.   To me he wasn't as good after that - and supposedly he lost quite a bit of weight too.   Rathbone was decent too so going to be a tough call.   Rathbone probably starts in Abbotsford unless he really impresses... given he has to clear waivers.   Green was right to pull OJ and give Rathbone a shot - by then our season was shot too lol.    OJ didn't get the same minutes either but i think that might be trying to ease him in i'm not sure.   Rathbone had some 18 plus minute games but if it was early on when the season wasn't clear yet, could have just as easily been 14-15 like OJ.   Glad we have those two to battle it out anyways... 

Ah, well that might explain a few things.  I never heard about his COVID, or just forgot which is very possible.

I understand that Rathbone is flashier.  But maybe its just the way those northern Europeans carry themselves, so understated.  Easy to overlook his progress.  From my perspective I saw him (before his battles with COVID I guess) take a big step the last time he played for a stretch here. In his own Finnish way. 

[Heretic]

On 9/9/2021 at 2:08 PM, NHL97OneTimer said:

We all know the Canucks can put the puck in the net, but the key to winning a cup is usually built around a solid defence and goaltending.  Not wanting to start a "flame TSN" thread, but a recent TSN article released suggests that the Canucks have the worst defense in Canadian teams this year with a grade C attributed to them:

 

https://www.tsn.ca/grading-the-defencemen-on-canada-s-nhl-teams-1.1691570

 

I disagree.  I think the defence looks better and deeper than recent years and is arguably better than a number of Canadian teams.  Granted a lot will depend on how well OEL plays because this will help define how well players like QH and TM can excel in more optimal roles.  In order for the Canucks to be contenders, they badly need at least a top 10 D in the league and I don't think they're there yet, but the course is being corrected.  

 

What do you think?  Is the D improved enough to bump up the win column this year or is TSN bang on?

We were a D last year, C this year sounds about right - might be better - we have to wait and see.

[King Heffy]

27 minutes ago, kilgore said:

 

I thought, from my eye test, OJ never looked better than the last time Green gave him some ice time. Which was awhile ago.  Positionally he seemed to always be in the right defensive spot.  He is filling out body wise and was looking much less intimidated by older veteran forwards on other teams. Just quietly did his job quite efficiently.

 

I honestly thought he was going to stick. Maybe I'm just seeing things I want to, as Green didn't seem to see what I saw, or just that Rathbone took over his spot just based on his skating and offensive ability.  But I think all OJ needs is more time in the NHL.  He seems like one of those D that fits right into the stereotype of D developing later.  

 

A lot of this thread is lamenting the loss of our more defensive defensemen. Edler, Tanev, even Stecher was very good defensively.  I think OJ could fill a part of that hole.  But he needs some trust, and an open spot, playing time to get better and be that player for them.  The only way may be through injury on some other D, because of the new pieces that JB brought in and probably wants to try out first, but I really hope he gets another good shot here.

 

 

 

OJ reminds a lot of Bourdon, who was starting to turn the corner when we tragically lost him.  I'm confident he will continue to develop.

[IBatch]

Just now, Heretic said:

We were a D last year, C this year sounds about right - might be better - we have to wait and see.

Awesome!  Soooo...in two short years an A!