How good is the Canucks D now?

[NHL97OneTimer]

We all know the Canucks can put the puck in the net, but the key to winning a cup is usually built around a solid defence and goaltending.  Not wanting to start a "flame TSN" thread, but a recent TSN article released suggests that the Canucks have the worst defense in Canadian teams this year with a grade C attributed to them:

 

https://www.tsn.ca/grading-the-defencemen-on-canada-s-nhl-teams-1.1691570

 

I disagree.  I think the defence looks better and deeper than recent years and is arguably better than a number of Canadian teams.  Granted a lot will depend on how well OEL plays because this will help define how well players like QH and TM can excel in more optimal roles.  In order for the Canucks to be contenders, they badly need at least a top 10 D in the league and I don't think they're there yet, but the course is being corrected.  

 

What do you think?  Is the D improved enough to bump up the win column this year or is TSN bang on?

[You Mad Bro?]

Ask the ladies at the roxy maybe?

[Drakrami]

OEL, Poolman, Rathbone, Schenn are all new. Will depend on how the season progresses and how well we are coached but slapping together a D core half of them new to the team is hardly solid. We just lost our blueline anchor for the past decade - Edler; that's probably bigger than most people imagine. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

3 minutes ago, Drakrami said:

OEL, Poolman, Rathbone, Schenn are all new. Will depend on how the season progresses and how well we are coached but slapping together a D core half of them new to the team is hardly solid. We just lost our blueline anchor for the past decade - Edler; that's probably bigger than most people imagine. 

Schenn isn't really new.  Has already some chemistry with Hughes but he won't be playing with him as he's just a solid cheap depth guy (#7) you can stick in Abby or in the pressbox (to be used when injuries occur or give some of the 30+ year old guys time to re-energize from the minor bumps/scraps over the course of a long season).

[48MPHSlapShot]

On paper our blueline doesn't look very good, but I don't think that tells the whole story either. There won't be any trying to shove a square peg into a round hole like we tried last year by forcing Schmidt to try and play the Tanev role. It's a blueline where all the pieces fit a lot better.

 

It also needs to be noted that Hughes, OEL and Poolman all had down years last season for their respective teams. I think all 3 guys should see improvements next season. OEL should be refreshed playing for a team that actually wants him and isn't requiring him to wear the C. Poolman was ravaged by Covid last season, so assuming he stays clear of that, I expect him to be back to the previous season's form. Hughes racked up most of his minuses playing with Myers. Just keep them away from each other and I think they'll be fine.

 

Then there are the two wildcards in Rathbone and Juolevi. Chances are that one of them will be on the opening night roster and that both of them will see significant playing time this season. Right now most people are looking at them as bottom pairing players, but both have the potential to be better than than that and I expect that at least one or both of them will take significant strides this year.

 

You also need to look at our forward group when discussing our overall team defence as well. Our bottom 6 looks to be a much more defensively responsible group than we've had in recent years. Dickinson is cited as being one of the best defensive forwards in the league, we know how good Sutter and Motte are in that regard, Pearson is no slouch, and Podkolzin comes in providing a strong two way game as well. There are no Gaudettes here. Having a group of forwards that can be relied on to carry their end of things defensively should go a long ways towards helping us keep pucks out of our own net.

 

And we might as well talk about goaltending too. Halak>>>>>>>>Holtby.

 

Then there's the Brad Shaw factor as well. Last season the team simply didn't have a proper defensive system (or any defensive system) in place. Just bringing in Shaw to oversea things should help quite a bit in that regard. 

 

So yeah, while on paper our blueline looks pretty lacking, the pieces fit together quite a bit better, a number of guys should see improvements in their games this year, the forwards and goaltending should actually be able to hold up their end of things in their own end, and there should be an actual defensive system in place this time around. I think our team defence will end up surprising quite a few people.

Edited September 10, 2021 by 48MPHSlapShot

[flat land fish]

I think the grade out is harsher than reality.  The first 20 games our d has disastrous.  Hughes was chasing offense too hard and harmonic was out of shape.  The pairing of edler and Schmidt didn’t really fit together.  My opinion is they have brought in guys that will work better together.  We should be playing in the opponents end more often which will help out the blue line a lot.  The backend is still our biggest wildcard but has potential to be improved from a season ago and a lot more depth.

[Alflives]

At the team's Cup celebratory parade in June of 2022 the D will be riding on their own float of greatness.  Our D is friggin' awesome!  OEL is a 30 year old number one all around star.  Quinn is a super duper super star scoring machine!  We got Myers, and Poolman and Bone and OJ and Hamonic and the list goes on of excellent D men.  

[ey40]

As long as Brad Shaw has the final say I think the defense will be better than the last few years.

[The_Rocket]

Don’t read too much into this article. He gave the Canucks a B+ for centre depth, calling Dickinson and Horvat “quality middle 6 centres”. uhhhhhh, Horvat is much more than a middle 6 centre. 
 

based on this guys grading system, he thinks the Leafs Defense (A- grade) is better than the Canucks Centre depth (B+ grade). The leafs have 3 good defensemen, 2 mediocre, and 1 young maybe (sandin). Apparently that represents a bigger position of strength than Pettersson, Horvat, Dickinson, sutter. 
 

You can tell by his centre depth article that he is a leafs writer. He lists 5 centres for the leafs (matthews, Tavares, kampf, Engvall, and Kerfoot). For every other team, he only lists 4. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins? Not a centre! JT miller? Not a centre! Andrew Copp? Not a centre! 

only Toronto is allowed to have a centre/winger hybrid in their lineup. 
 

he also as this beauty to say about Toronto’s defense:

“It is also worth mentioning that Kyle Dubas’ decision to expose Jared McCann instead of Holl in the expansion draft looks smart in retrospect; the price of second-pairing defenders in free agency was obnoxious this summer, and the cost to replace Holl in the lineup would have been larger than anticipated.”

hmmmm let’s see, which one is more valuable. A 25 year old centre coming off a season where he paced at 61 points per 82 games, and still has one year left at less than $3 million dollars, OR a 29 year old 3rd pair defenseman who rode an 11.6% on ice shooting percentage last season and has a worse underlying profile than OEL, Tucker Poolman, and Travis hamonic? But the Canucks have the worst D-core in the division????

 

the mind boggles

[Chris12345]

On paper it isn't great at all. Sure, I'll get flamed but whatever.

 

The right side has a problem in the top 4.

 

If the stars align, it will work. Could have some serious holes.

[kanucks25]

7 minutes ago, Chris12345 said:

On paper it isn't great at all. Sure, I'll get flamed but whatever.

 

The right side has a problem in the top 4.

 

If the stars align, it will work. Could have some serious holes.

Pretty much this.

 

A lot has to go right for this defense to be good.

 

That said, the forward group + goaltending may be good enough to get us into the playoffs. Probably won't be very pretty after that if the defense is still a concern come April/May.

Edited September 9, 2021 by kanucks25

[Chris12345]

Just now, kanucks25 said:

Pretty much this.

 

A lot has to go right for this defense to be good.

 

That said, the forward group + goaltending may be good enough to get us into the playoffs. Probably won't be very pretty after that if the defence is still a concern come April/May.

Exactly. It's a first round exit type of defense.

 

I think they lack a true #1 and a true #4. They also lack a bomb but Rathbone might fill the void.

 

Not a scary dman back there either the combo of OEL and Hughes is soft but they won't pair together. Hamonic and Myers ok but not scary.

[Rabbit]

I do think the defensive is better than last season.

Shaw better than last year,

New players OEL, Poolman, Schenn looks better than those departed players.

Hughes, Bone, OJ will be much matured.

Only have a little concern the speed of Myers.

[Coconuts]

[Master Mind]

Defense is our biggest weakness.

 

A lot of turnover during the offseason, but that was needed with how our defense has performed over the years.

 

Hopefully they gel well together and with a new defensive system. Can't continue relying on the goaltender to bail the team out and expect to contend.

[kloubek]

If you look at our team, it's devoid of a defenseman with true shutdown ability. I think until we get that guy, it will continue to be inadequate.

 

With that said, I don't think it's bad... it's just... average. If OEL regains some form that will help a lot, and I think a lot also depends on the development of at least one of OJ or Rathbone. 

[Angry Goose]

Offensively, the defense has great options. 

 

Defensively I think they can get the job done but d zone play depends on the forwards as much as the defense.  Imo Canucks Achilles heel has been execution on more detail type plays, short passes, wingers winning puck battles when the Defense force opponents up the boards etc. 

 

Overall I'd say the defense has a good mix of mobility and puck skills.  I think the newly added forwards all have good 2 way ability which will help overall team defense as well

[bbllpp]

They need OJ to pan out, Rathbone is more of the same and trade bait in my mind.

 

I’d honestly trade Hughes for a top all-round RHD though if Rathbone projects as a 30-40 point Stecher as we are unfortunately married to OEL at this point.

 

OEL-Ekblad 

OJ-Myers 

Bone-Hamonic

 

Feels more rounded

[-AJ-]

We have solid depth at the low end, but I think our top 4 is pretty weak compared to better teams unless some of our expected top guys improve.

[Putgolzin]

2 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

We have solid depth at the low end, but I think our top 4 is pretty weak compared to better teams unless some of our expected top guys improve.

Agreed - it’s a work in progress like our forwards have been for years.

 

Like when we had a couple/few good top line forwards and seventeen third liners and another twelve fourth liners.

 

Seems like our forwards are finally sorted, but it’s gonna be a bit still to get our D in championship form.