[Signing] Wild re-sign Kirill Kaprizov

[JeremyCuddles]

I am not a fan of the 5 year deal trend. Aho, Matthews, Kaprizov. If Petey and Hughes sign for 5 years I pray that we win a championship in that span. Especially in Hughes case. Hard to fight the urge to jump ship to play with both your brothers in NJ.

[Westcoastcanucks777]

Petey and Quinn spotted in Russia!

[Guest]

49 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

I am not a fan of the 5 year deal trend. Aho, Matthews, Kaprizov. If Petey and Hughes sign for 5 years I pray that we win a championship in that span. Especially in Hughes case. Hard to fight the urge to jump ship to play with both your brothers in NJ.

I think it's a little bit different in Kaprizov's case, because he's already 24.  From my understanding they are buying up 3 RFA years and 2 UFA years.  

 

If we were to buy up 2 UFA years, Elias would be looking at a 6 year deal and Quinn would be looking at a 7 year deal (someone correct me if I'm wrong). 

[spook007]

2 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

Yes, we were spoiled for sure with the Sedins.  We knew that before but we will keep being reminded of that for many years to come.  

 

I wonder if we will feel that way with Horvat in the future.  Somehow he's out of the spotlight for the most part despite being the captain, putting up fantastic numbers and signing a team-friendly deal. 

Yes... somehow he seems to slip under the radar... if this over payment trend continues, this team will have to make some very drastic decisions in a year or two...

Wonder if Podz is licking his lips already...

[Westcoastcanucks777]

It was overheard later “Kirill we said twist their arm not break it!”

[khay]

3 hours ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

This is a pretty rough contract for the team. Hopefully the Toronto effect doesn't continue to extend.

 

I think people are undervaluing Pettersson a long term deal. For 7-8 years he could reasonably get over 10M. Looking purely at offensive numbers, his comparables put him at over 11M for 8 years. Throw in a PPG Playoff performance and that's insurance that he could actually get closer to his higher bound. The thing dragging him back are his injuries, which may pull that number down. 

 

I still think Pettersson is destined for a bridge while Hughes may be the one going long term. 

8 years at 10-11 mil would be what Petey would get if he were a UFA. Toronto was an abnormality because they screwed up their internal cap structure by signing Tavares to 11 +mil contract and it didn't make sense to not pay Matthews and then obviously Marner who had even better season than Matthews.

 

What's the point of having an RFA status? The only leverage Petey has is an offersheet or sitting out. Sitting out is going to be detrimental to both sides. Given how aggressive this fanbase is, Petey might as well be traded if he pulls a Nylander because he may get boo'd and player-fan relationship may not be salvagable.

 

Given that Petey is an RFA, 7 or 8 year deal should come in at around Makar's money. That way the team benefits by saving few million dollars down the road and Petey gets security.

 

But I still prefer Petey to sign a bridge deal. Go put up amazing seasons and/or win us a cup (or get us close) and then ask what you are worth for what you've done 3 years later. Take Brayden Point for example. Signed a bridge deal, went out and helped the Bolts get 2 cups where he was arguably their best player on many of the important games. Now he gets paid 9.5 mil, which is equivalent to 11 mil in other markets.

 

As for Hughes, I think an 8-year long term deal is fine if it's below 7.5 mil or at most 8. Having both QH and EP to 3 year bridge deals might result in having to pay both of them 10+ mils down the road and we all know what happened in Chicago once Kane and Toewes started getting paid.

 

I think JB is doing well to hold out for good value contract. This shows that he knows that we have a window to win in the next few seasons and that it's critical to bring all the guys in at good cap values.

 

[Ilunga]

5 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

Yes, we were spoiled for sure with the Sedins.  We knew that before but we will keep being reminded of that for many years to come.  

 

I wonder if we will feel that way with Horvat in the future.  Somehow he's out of the spotlight for the most part despite being the captain, putting up fantastic numbers and signing a team-friendly deal. 

Totally Brother.

 

Team guys first and foremost.

 

Horvat has put the team first as well.

 

 

If Elias really wants to play on a team that is consistently contending he will take a team friendly deal to help enable that.

[stawns]

5 hours ago, khay said:

8 years at 10-11 mil would be what Petey would get if he were a UFA. Toronto was an abnormality because they screwed up their internal cap structure by signing Tavares to 11 +mil contract and it didn't make sense to not pay Matthews and then obviously Marner who had even better season than Matthews.

 

What's the point of having an RFA status? The only leverage Petey has is an offersheet or sitting out. Sitting out is going to be detrimental to both sides. Given how aggressive this fanbase is, Petey might as well be traded if he pulls a Nylander because he may get boo'd and player-fan relationship may not be salvagable.

 

Given that Petey is an RFA, 7 or 8 year deal should come in at around Makar's money. That way the team benefits by saving few million dollars down the road and Petey gets security.

 

But I still prefer Petey to sign a bridge deal. Go put up amazing seasons and/or win us a cup (or get us close) and then ask what you are worth for what you've done 3 years later. Take Brayden Point for example. Signed a bridge deal, went out and helped the Bolts get 2 cups where he was arguably their best player on many of the important games. Now he gets paid 9.5 mil, which is equivalent to 11 mil in other markets.

 

As for Hughes, I think an 8-year long term deal is fine if it's below 7.5 mil or at most 8. Having both QH and EP to 3 year bridge deals might result in having to pay both of them 10+ mils down the road and we all know what happened in Chicago once Kane and Toewes started getting paid.

 

I think JB is doing well to hold out for good value contract. This shows that he knows that we have a window to win in the next few seasons and that it's critical to bring all the guys in at good cap values.

 

Except Petey really hasn't proven much.  Both these players need show me deals.

[RakuRaku]

Honestly... $9M AAV is a bit insane... the guy had just played ONE season... I know he's got a proven track record in the KHL and was almost lights out in his rookie season.. but who can guarantee he won't regress after last season?

 

Nikita Gusev also has a fabulous KHL resume... he had a great first season with the Devils, albeit with a lower point per game than Kaprizov... he suddenly just lost the scoring touch and is now on a PTO only with the Leafs... 

[TFerguson]

16 hours ago, DrJockitch said:

Eichel is to blame for these deals. McDavid earned the money, Eichel never did. Now every too player coming off rookie deal thinks they should get too dollar on second deal. 
Only salary control anymore is rookie deal. 

I blame Dubas

[JeremyCuddles]

9 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

I think it's a little bit different in Kaprizov's case, because he's already 24.  From my understanding they are buying up 3 RFA years and 2 UFA years.  

 

If we were to buy up 2 UFA years, Elias would be looking at a 6 year deal and Quinn would be looking at a 7 year deal (someone correct me if I'm wrong). 

Yeah that's fair, Kaprizov isn't 21 like Matthews was and Petey/Hughes are. So 5 years for him is different. Still not a fan of 5 year deals off ELCs. It buys us next to no UFA years for our kids.

[cuporbust]

That's terrible 

[mll]

 

[Chris Thornycroft]

The problem now for Benning is that Kaprizov was given $9 million per in a 5 year deal based on 1 good season. Pettersson has back to back seasons of a roughly PPG pace, and an injury plagued season last year where he started off slow but still had 21 points in 26 games. So is he worth 10? 11? The Canucks have around $14 million in cap space, maybe up to 15 or so if they find a way to send down some money to Abbotsford. That leaves maybe 5 per for Hughes. Despite Quinn's defensive deficiencies, particularly last year, his offence suggests he's not that much worse than Pettersson overall. And since 5 years is now the benchmark, neither one of these guys will be signed to the 8 year max term. We're looking at bridge deals, and even they will be brutally expensive. If we get both for around 3 years and stay within the cap limit it will be a miracle at this point. Then again, they both have the alternative of sitting out and making $0. So I guess it's in their best interest to sign for whatever money the Canucks can pay cap-wise. If they don't end up signing 1 or 2 year deals, I'll be pleasantly surprised. 

[spook007]

6 hours ago, RakuRaku said:

Honestly... $9M AAV is a bit insane... the guy had just played ONE season... I know he's got a proven track record in the KHL and was almost lights out in his rookie season.. but who can guarantee he won't regress after last season?

 

Nikita Gusev also has a fabulous KHL resume... he had a great first season with the Devils, albeit with a lower point per game than Kaprizov... he suddenly just lost the scoring touch and is now on a PTO only with the Leafs... 

Could almost hope same will happen to Wild... Maybe that'll teach them being daft and screwing up the market...

[Noble 6]

12 hours ago, khay said:

8 years at 10-11 mil would be what Petey would get if he were a UFA. Toronto was an abnormality because they screwed up their internal cap structure by signing Tavares to 11 +mil contract and it didn't make sense to not pay Matthews and then obviously Marner who had even better season than Matthews.

 

What's the point of having an RFA status? The only leverage Petey has is an offersheet or sitting out. Sitting out is going to be detrimental to both sides. Given how aggressive this fanbase is, Petey might as well be traded if he pulls a Nylander because he may get boo'd and player-fan relationship may not be salvagable.

 

Given that Petey is an RFA, 7 or 8 year deal should come in at around Makar's money. That way the team benefits by saving few million dollars down the road and Petey gets security.

 

But I still prefer Petey to sign a bridge deal. Go put up amazing seasons and/or win us a cup (or get us close) and then ask what you are worth for what you've done 3 years later. Take Brayden Point for example. Signed a bridge deal, went out and helped the Bolts get 2 cups where he was arguably their best player on many of the important games. Now he gets paid 9.5 mil, which is equivalent to 11 mil in other markets.

 

As for Hughes, I think an 8-year long term deal is fine if it's below 7.5 mil or at most 8. Having both QH and EP to 3 year bridge deals might result in having to pay both of them 10+ mils down the road and we all know what happened in Chicago once Kane and Toewes started getting paid.

 

I think JB is doing well to hold out for good value contract. This shows that he knows that we have a window to win in the next few seasons and that it's critical to bring all the guys in at good cap values.

 

 

That's a pretty optimistic, team friendly perspective. I would want Pettersson on a long term deal similar to what you outlined, but the chances of that happening have gone down based on the last ~3 years. Even if you exclude Matthews and Marner as Toronto anomalies, RFAs everywhere around the league have held more power in negotiations recently than they used to. 

 

Your reasoning makes sense, but prominent RFAs have looked at that arguement and said "screw that, I want X per year." The problem is that it's becoming more common that teams are actually giving them those numbers. Werenski signed a more expensive contract than Makar; its a case by case thing with no rules, just guidelines.

 

One of the closest comparables for Pettersson on a long term deal is Eichel, who signed an 8 year, 10M cap hit deal. Pettersson's point production has been very similar, but he's also been PPG in the Playoffs too. Both players also had injury concerns prior to the deal. If you take Eichel's cap hit percentage and give it to Pettersson now, he would end up with an 8 year deal at 11M+.

 

To avoid that, there are really only two options: Hope that he'll take a team friendly deal or trade him. But if Pettersson wants to get what he's worth and not a penny less, then I think the number on a long term deal will be higher than 9M for sure.

[DeNiro]

I mean even if you think Kaprizov is worth 9 million I don’t see how this changes Peteys numbers.

 

Kaprizov is not a comparable. He had leverage to leave to the KHL. He is also 2 years older and signing for more UFA years.

 

If this is used as a comparable it should be for a 7 or 8 year term IMO.

[RakuRaku]

18 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Could almost hope same will happen to Wild... Maybe that'll teach them being daft and screwing up the market...

Yup... agreed!! they shouldn't have caved in to his demands... now Petey is looking at it and wants a similar deal.... damn it!

[khay]

1 hour ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

That's a pretty optimistic, team friendly perspective. I would want Pettersson on a long term deal similar to what you outlined, but the chances of that happening have gone down based on the last ~3 years. Even if you exclude Matthews and Marner as Toronto anomalies, RFAs everywhere around the league have held more power in negotiations recently than they used to. 

 

Your reasoning makes sense, but prominent RFAs have looked at that arguement and said "screw that, I want X per year." The problem is that it's becoming more common that teams are actually giving them those numbers. Werenski signed a more expensive contract than Makar; its a case by case thing with no rules, just guidelines.

 

One of the closest comparables for Pettersson on a long term deal is Eichel, who signed an 8 year, 10M cap hit deal. Pettersson's point production has been very similar, but he's also been PPG in the Playoffs too. Both players also had injury concerns prior to the deal. If you take Eichel's cap hit percentage and give it to Pettersson now, he would end up with an 8 year deal at 11M+.

 

To avoid that, there are really only two options: Hope that he'll take a team friendly deal or trade him. But if Pettersson wants to get what he's worth and not a penny less, then I think the number on a long term deal will be higher than 9M for sure.

Eichel is a good comparison, I agree that Petey's agent can even make a case that Petey is better than Eichel. But then, JB can always find other counter examples, like Point and Barzal and just point out the fact that Canucks don't operate like that dumpster fire Buffalo Sabres organization.

 

A fair long term deal for Petey is probably around 9-10 mil given that comparison and considering what Makar signed for.

 

But Canucks are not in a position to throw that type of money around, especially if the goal is to win.

 

Either Petey stays true to his words that he wants to win by instructing his agent that he will take a bridge deal like other equally good comparables like Point, Barzal did or... or he pulls a Matthews or Eichel and asks for 10+ mil on an 8 year deal.

 

Canucks might as well trade him if that's what Petey wants because we aren't winning with a 10 mil player on the roster, let alone the fact that it leaves no room to fit in Hughes.

 

The market is a bit crazy. As good as some of these young RFA players are, I think the only players that can get 10+ mil are UFAs who have years of delivering as a #1 scoring option (Tavares, Ovechkin), or RFAs that have delivered a cup (Toewes, Kane, Kopitar, Point) and special players like McDavid and Matthews (I cringe as I put Matthews in the same category as McDavid but he is an elite goal scorer).

 

Unfortunately, Petey doesn't fit into any of the three categories. So, he should get a 3-year bridge deal, show us that he belongs in one or even better, all three categories by winning a cup and winning Hart or Selke or Art Ross or Conn Smythe.

 

If he does win us a cup, I'm sure no one is going to complain if we pay him 11+ mil.

 

[combover]

On 9/21/2021 at 3:39 PM, 24K PureCool said:

I am totally open to trade Hughes and Pettey now or sit their asses for the year if they are gonna significantly increase their ask after this.

 

JB hold the line!

Jb gets fired when his team misses  the playoff and his two best players were sitting. 
only line he’ll hold is the unemployment.

so trade your two best players hahahahahaha

So restart the retool / rebuild disaster. 

Or maybe we can trade one of them for a 30 year old declining 7.2 mill dman with 6 years left . 
 

its crazy  but it’s the market value-  makar this kid , Brady Tkachuk this summer  is the wrong summer to have top tier rfa talent getting resigned. 
8-10 mill for ep 3-8

7-9 mill for hughes. 3-8

look around the league the best players are getting top dollar rfa status doesn’t have the same leverage anymore. 

Or 

get booed nightly then fired when the team is struggling with a dressing room full of p issed off players that wondering  if being a Canuck is the best choice for them to Since they are tired of all the losing. 
rumor has it that’s already happened when toffoli talks “ ran out of time” 

And schmidt sure seemed to love it here. Lol

 

.