Bertuzzipunch Posted May 23, 2021 Author Share Posted May 23, 2021 Why do i see so many red wing fans wanting yzerman to send petterson a massive offer sheet if hes not that good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 20 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said: Why do i see so many red wing fans wanting yzerman to send petterson a massive offer sheet if hes not that good? Who's suggesting he's 'not that good'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzipunch Posted May 23, 2021 Author Share Posted May 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, aGENT said: Who's suggesting he's 'not that good'? 51 minutes ago, 4petesake said: I suspect QH may not sign until after Cale Makar is signed and will set the bar for guys like Hughes and Dahlin. If QH signs first it probably means either he is willing to take a little less or JB is willing to gamble on overpaying. Hughes has a little less leverage as he isn’t an RFA who can be offer-sheeted but as others have pointed out leverage means much less with your core that with other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said: I'm confused... That post isn't saying anything about anyone not being good... And it's about Hughes, not Petey... Edited May 23, 2021 by aGENT 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzipunch Posted May 23, 2021 Author Share Posted May 23, 2021 On 5/22/2021 at 12:51 AM, TheNewGM said: these players are really not worth much anymore.. barely "franchise" players anymore IMO. very elite players, yes. BUT THEY ARE UNPROVEN!! I do not want to see big term or money or the curse of the canucks will never end. meant this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 Just now, Bertuzzipunch said: meant this 'Very elite' = 'Not that good'...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzipunch Posted May 23, 2021 Author Share Posted May 23, 2021 9 minutes ago, aGENT said: 'Very elite' = 'Not that good'...? Been getting in arguments on youtube how petey will be signed but they wont stop cause some blogger made a suggestion that petey will be getting a offer sheet from detroit. So the fan base is all convinced its happening. While im there shooting it all down lol Lets get this deal done soon so i can laugh at them jerks 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeneedLumme Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 5 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said: So you think EP and Hughes have no leverage and have to accept whatever Benning feels like offering them because they are RFA? They have more leverage than people think. Agents have been working for years to eliminate the 2nd discounted contract from the RFA picture. EP and Hughes wont be expecting UFA money. But they wont be expecting a huge discount to what they are worth either. EP has more leverage than Hughes because he is eligible for an offer sheet. If Benning extreme low balls EP or tells him what you suggest he should, Barry and Brisson start checking around the league about a potential offer sheet to force Benning's hand. The longer they hold out, the worse it gets for the Canucks. And if you dont know who his agents are, they are very well connected around the league. Another GM looking for an immediate ilepact and long term cost certainty for a young potential star player may be able to negotiate a deal with the Kraken to take a big contract player and may be willing to do Barry/Brisson a solid and throw an offer sheet EP's way. Is it likely? No. But its possible. And probably more possible this year with the expansiondraft being available to make deals to offload cap to them. Even if he just holds out until the start of the season it ties Bennings hands on other moves he can make. I think EP will probably be willing to take a reasonable discount just because of who he is. Hughes honestly strikes me as a player who will want pretty much every penny of what he is worth. But he has less leverage too. But the thing about these top level young guys now is even if Benning wins the battle now and forces significantly lower values on them so he can afford his bottom 6 vets on inflated contracts, he may lose the war. These guys can just sign a couple of shorter term contracts to get them to UFA status then walk if Benning wants to pretend he owns them indefinitely. You can't debate without using strawmen? Like: "So you think EP and Hughes have no leverage and have to accept whatever Benning feels like offering them because they are RFA?" and "If Benning extreme low balls EP or tells him what you suggest he should" I obviously suggested nothing of the sort. Negotiating is generally not black and white massive win or massive loss. Except when there is the relatively rare situation where the leverage is extremely one-sided such as a heated bidding war (ie: Eriksson, Lucic), in which case there might be, but that is only possible for UFAs. As you acknowledged, Petey has more leverage than Huggy, due to his precise RFA status, so consequently EP will most likely be able to negotiate a more player-favourable deal than will QH, should he wish to. And neither one of them will be able to negotiate the same deal they would be able to if they were UFAs. Their agents know that and every GM knows that. If you suggested to them that there was no difference in the leverage available to RFAs compared to that of UFAs, they would probably laugh at you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzipunch Posted May 23, 2021 Author Share Posted May 23, 2021 Do petey and Quinn have the same agent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 32 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said: Do petey and Quinn have the same agent? Yes https://www.caa.com/sportstalent/hockey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 28 minutes ago, WeneedLumme said: You can't debate without using strawmen? Like: "So you think EP and Hughes have no leverage and have to accept whatever Benning feels like offering them because they are RFA?" and "If Benning extreme low balls EP or tells him what you suggest he should" I obviously suggested nothing of the sort. Negotiating is generally not black and white massive win or massive loss. Except when there is the relatively rare situation where the leverage is extremely one-sided such as a heated bidding war (ie: Eriksson, Lucic), in which case there might be, but that is only possible for UFAs. As you acknowledged, Petey has more leverage than Huggy, due to his precise RFA status, so consequently EP will most likely be able to negotiate a more player-favourable deal than will QH, should he wish to. And neither one of them will be able to negotiate the same deal they would be able to if they were UFAs. Their agents know that and every GM knows that. If you suggested to them that there was no difference in the leverage available to RFAs compared to that of UFAs, they would probably laugh at you. I have been on cdc since 2007. In that time, the term strawman has been overused so much on here that I almost instantly avoid talking to anyone who uses it to dismiss other people. You said if their agents play hardball that benning should respond by telling them if they want to play in the nhl it will be with the Canucks. As a way of trying to suggest Benning has most of the leverage in these negotiations. He doesnt though. EP can wait for an offer sheet. Hughes can refuse to play for the Canucks unless they trade him. Etc. These players know they have a huge impact on other moves the team can make but also are not likely to play for half what their comparables say they are worth though. Asking young core players to take one for the team and take a masssive discount is simply a risky strategy when you regularly overpay for average to worse ufa players. Sometimes for ones where there was actually no heated bidding war at all. Miller, Myers, Beagle, Roussel, Schaller, Sutter, Pearson, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 35 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said: Do petey and Quinn have the same agent? Yes. And probably the best agents in the business. I cant remember which one, but one switched to them recently. They arent getting bent over by Benning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzipunch Posted May 23, 2021 Author Share Posted May 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said: Yes https://www.caa.com/sportstalent/hockey Good. Both will be done the same day then and announced together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzipunch Posted May 23, 2021 Author Share Posted May 23, 2021 1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said: Yes. And probably the best agents in the business. I cant remember which one, but one switched to them recently. They arent getting bent over by Benning. JP Berry I believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 34 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said: Do petey and Quinn have the same agent? EP switched from his long time agent to QH agent this season you guys really don't think it's a coincidence? Why bother switching if he's willing to take whatever below market price contract we offer them because so and so say they are unproven and not elite in this league? Every other young star in this league are *unproven and *not elite when they signed their extension, but their team seems to think otherwise.. eichel aho barzal etc oh and EP ppg first 3 season are better than all of them even though he's unproven and not elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73 Percent Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Bertuzzipunch said: JP Berry I believe This is anything but good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzipunch Posted May 24, 2021 Author Share Posted May 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, 73 Percent said: This is anything but good... Nah its fine. Hes been dealing with JB forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73 Percent Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 Just now, Bertuzzipunch said: Nah its fine. Hes been dealing with JB forever Dealing lol. Is that what you call how Babies are made?? Thata what berry's done to Benning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzipunch Posted May 24, 2021 Author Share Posted May 24, 2021 1 minute ago, 73 Percent said: Dealing lol. Is that what you call how Babies are made?? Thata what berry's done to Benning. Is he luoi erikksons agent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithers joe Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 their agent said he has talked to jim about term. it sounds like they are on board with a bridge deal. dollars to be determined.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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